SSL: Patches and Automation

[Raveshaper]

I have encountered something I can't explain, followed by a semi-related technical question.

When loading certain combinator patches that deal with audio into the  insert section on a mix channel in the SSL, the patch refuses to work properly and must be loaded in a combinator to function. The patch that did this was converting processed audio into CV signals in order to manipulate knobs, etc., in a dynamic way that responded to the sounds passing through. Why would this not function properly specifically in the SSL?

My semi-related technical question is about how to do responsive audio to CV conversions that involve the actual channel strip controls. It's great having all those controls in the SSL, but they can't be accessed by CV or anything. Using MIDI loopback to do this introduces latency, but there isn't any other way....is there?

[Gaja]

Nah I don't think that's currently possible, sadly.
I'd really love if they made the SSL buttons available in the insert sections programmer, cause then you could do all sorts of fancy stuff with CV and EQ and whatnot...

[selig]

I have encountered something I can't explain, followed by a semi-related technical question.

When loading certain combinator patches that deal with audio into the  insert section on a mix channel in the SSL, the patch refuses to work properly and must be loaded in a combinator to function. The patch that did this was converting processed audio into CV signals in order to manipulate knobs, etc., in a dynamic way that responded to the sounds passing through. Why would this not function properly specifically in the SSL?

My semi-related technical question is about how to do responsive audio to CV conversions that involve the actual channel strip controls. It's great having all those controls in the SSL, but they can't be accessed by CV or anything. Using MIDI loopback to do this introduces latency, but there isn't any other way....is there?

As to the first issue, you'll have to be more clear. 

Where there already any insert FX in the Audio Channel Insert? Did you use the patch browser to load the Combi, or did you drag the Combi into the Insert section? 

If you're interested, post the Combinator in question here and we can test it and see what's going on.

[Raveshaper]

I'll post it later tonight.

To be more clear, the combinator patch works without difficulty when loaded into a combi, but does not work when loaded into the insert fx section. No devices were in the insert bay when I loaded it in manually using the folder browse button. Because it's dealing with audio I thought this was strange to be happening on the mixer.

[selig]

I'll post it later tonight. To be more clear, the combinator patch works without difficulty when loaded into a combi, but does not work when loaded into the insert fx section. No devices were in the insert bay when I loaded it in manually using the folder browse button. Because it's dealing with audio I thought this was strange to be happening on the mixer.

Your problem reminds me of something I've encountered in the past, but I can't quite remember. Hopefully your post tonight will ring a bell for me!

[Raveshaper]

A little preview of what it does...

It takes a dry signal and a compressed signal, then inverts the phase of the compressed signal to isolate the difference between the two. This signal is then split through band pass filters and used as sidechain input on MClass compressors. The gain reduction out of the compressors drive the gain knobs of an MClass EQ. This gives you a dynamic EQ that responds more or less to peaks in the audio. But in the mixer inserts it doesn't do anything. No dynamic response. Any guesses based on that description?

[kloeckno]

If all else fails, you can always just plug the combi into the insert FX jacks! I like doing that sometimes when I have complex routing, so then you can use multiple combinators and also send them MIDI notes. The combis loaded into the insert FX section can't have a control surface locked to them, so I often have to use the external combi approach.

[selig]

A little preview of what it does... It takes a dry signal and a compressed signal, then inverts the phase of the compressed signal to isolate the difference between the two. This signal is then split through band pass filters and used as sidechain input on MClass compressors. The gain reduction out of the compressors drive the gain knobs of an MClass EQ. This gives you a dynamic EQ that responds more or less to peaks in the audio. But in the mixer inserts it doesn't do anything. No dynamic response. Any guesses based on that description?

No, still nothing to really go on.

Do you see levels on the input/output? Where does the signal flow get interrupted? 

[selig]

If all else fails, you can always just plug the combi into the insert FX jacks! I like doing that sometimes when I have complex routing, so then you can use multiple combinators and also send them MIDI notes. The combis loaded into the insert FX section can't have a control surface locked to them, so I often have to use the external combi approach.

I've done that for years, even made a thread for the technique on the old PUF. :frown:

Super easy to do - just command "F" with the channel selected in the Rack. 

[Raveshaper]

Here's the patch file I was talking about.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzrZOf ... sp=sharing

This is a 4 band dynamic equalizer, much like the L3.
It is meant to be used as a way of complementing or replacing a limiter in order to achieve consistent levels in a mix or sub mix.
The knobs work like the L3 and give priority to the spectrum. Higher values mean those frequencies are preserved (reduced by smaller amounts) and lower values mean the frequencies get reduced by larger amounts.
It works great in a combi, but when I load this into an SSL channel, it doesn't function. You might have better luck, and if so let me know.

(Created in 7.1.1 on PC)

[LudvigC]

It seems to work exactly the same when I put it in the insert fx container of a channel (Reason 8.1).  
A channel with the patch as insert fx cancels out a channel with the patch in a combi (if inverted).

The only difference I know about (btw insert fx and combis) is that the insert fx don't have pitch bend and mod wheel, so any programming/routing used those will go amiss in an insert fx. And there's no backdrop of course.

Could there be some mono/stereo routing issue?

/ LudvigC

[Raveshaper]

I'll have to investigate my routing to track down the problem. It could be as simple as the channel not having high enough levels to trigger the gain reduction.