Biggest changes to your workflow when switching to Reason 8?

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jfrichards
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Post 25 Jan 2015

Theo.M wrote:...About the go back to patch that were using gripe, really, ok, it's a point, but to just drag the patch to the list on the left screen and if you back to it just drag and drop it, takes about 5 seconds more than the old method even for slow hands. Delete it if you don't go back to it. Simple. 
Also, you can find the original patch in the Recent Patches list on the left (it would be nice if that list were created by time instead of alphabetically, but it's there).  Another very nice feature about Theo's method is that as you surf through patches, you can drag any one you like to the Locations list as you're surfing, so you don't have to go back to the original, but can also go back to any you bookmarked.  Nice one Theo.

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JiggeryPokery
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Post 25 Jan 2015

Sample loading into NNXT is FAR harder in Reason 8. Whoever designed the system demonstrably didn't create large sample libraries, nor did anyone who tested the browser during alpha and test pilot stage do so, or if they did and these issues were highlighting, they were roundly ignored.

Handling multiple groups of samples you often require ordered loading before running Automap, or else the sample will map in the wrong order. In Reason 7 and previously, you just load up multiple samples in the correct order you want directly in the Sample Browser. This is not possible in R8.

So it baffles me why PH would kill that feature, especially with the creation of IDT, which basically still requires use of NNXT. This isn't just loading a couple of oscillator or hit samples. This is dealing with hundreds and thousands of samples, multiple velocities and round-robins etc.

Having to regularly re-order samples by dragging them up and down in the NNXT's sample window, rather than simply just having them load in order selected to start with, makes large scale sample loading a pretty hideous chore. It also doesn't deselect after loading, so one has to remember to add that click as well or it will replace the still auto-selected when you go to add the next batch.

You want to drag one-shots fine, it's brilliant, but serious large-scale content creation the R8 browser literally ADDS HOURS to the workflow: it sucks, and it sucks hard.


edit: and the other things that really annoying is that R8 kills workflows that involve multiple columns. If you need to load a patch in the right column, the browser pushes it off the edge of the screen. I'd mind this less if the browser at the least had the decency to auto-close so I could see the patch I've just loaded. So every time you load a patch in the last column, that's an extra click to close the browser.

So can someone please tell me how extra clicks = faster workflow? More is more, more isn't less!!

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jfrichards
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Post 25 Jan 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote:...[for] serious large-scale content creation, the R8 browser literally ADDS HOURS to the workflow...
Wow, I feel your pain, especially since it is money lost for you.  But the advantages during song-writing for me are seriously wonderful.  I haven't done any large scale sample loading for ten years and I stopped because it was a huge pain in the ass.  Blessed are the patch-makers, for they shall inherit the earth.  I used to design and build circuits with resistors and capacitors from Radio Shack.  Think about how I feel about miniature printed circuit boards with surface mount components and dsp chips!  The original paradigm in Reason, of designing everything to replicate the real world, is changing very fast.  Music software design is sucking everyone into thinking about designing stuff based on the new technology itself, on what is possible, not on what existed before.  I don't think the original paradigm will ever go away because it is based on thousands of years of musicians with fingers and eyes, but there will be an integration of the two paradigms.  The Hammond B3 with integrated Siri controller.

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JiggeryPokery
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Post 25 Jan 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote:...[for] serious large-scale content creation, the R8 browser literally ADDS HOURS to the workflow...
jfrichards wrote:
Wow, I feel your pain, especially since it is money lost for you.  But the advantages during song-writing for me are seriously wonderful.
Exactly; I don't doubt for a lot of users it probably is better. There's a big gap between content using and content creating. PH have built a system that is only really good for the former.

I really object to PH marketing it, repeatedly, to me and people like me as a massive improvement, they're effectively saying "well, you're wrong, it is better". Well, no. It's not better for me. And it's not better for anyone doing large sample libraries for your software.

PH have seen a way of doing things that involves just a very specific browser usage - patch loading and single sample loading, and decided that's the only valid option, and everyones elses opinion is irrelevant. And patch loading is actually only better if you know what you want before you open the browser. For random lottery-type patch browsing it's worse without the "faux-preview" we had before.

Ultimately, you fail to listen to your users then you fail entirely. But obviously content creators now matter less to them. Why create IDT when you devise a browser that makes it harder to produce content for it, at a price Reason users will spend.

My current project I can't see how I can break even on it for less than €70 in the shop. The amount of stick I'm going to get here and elsewhere for selling for to €70? Well, gird yer loins!!! ;)

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jfrichards
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Post 25 Jan 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote:...patch loading is actually only better if you know what you want before you open the browser. For random lottery-type patch browsing it's worse without the "faux-preview" we had before...
Not if you use the drag and drop, for example, the Theo method.  But I certainly see your individual issue with large-scale sampler creation, and that many people became dialed in to the old preview/cancel method.  The Theo method also has some advantages over the old preview/cancel method, like dragging patches you like (as you surf) into the Locations area for whatever reason, not just the original patch.  Hitting the old cancel could only take you to the original, which is quite a limitation.

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mcatalao
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Post 25 Jan 2015

LudvigC wrote:... One thing about the new browsing that I think gets too little spotlight is replacing devices with drag and drop. I've started using that a lot, for trying out different compressors etc, including devices without patch support. Changes my way of working quite a bit. That and the automatic coloring.
jfrichards wrote:
Very true that it gets too little spotlight, but that's entirely your fault.  Everyone would love to see someone who has mastered it create a song from scratch using the drag and drop/browser improvements, not just a 400 kph sales video.  A real tutorial on the new features in a real setting would be very valuable. (including devices, effects, patches, ordering, samples into audio tracks, into kong, redrum, nnxt, rex loops, octorex patches, from the desktop, previewing, using the lists on the left, creating efficient folders and lists for the browser, etc, etc)  And zooming the screen regularly during the video would help too.
Oh come on that IS the most important feature for me.
Just the fact that you can change from a synth device to a NNXT piano to a rack extension piano, to the nn-xt again with so few CLicks is a great workflow enhancer.

My only wish is that we can do the same with effects on top of the mixer (well you can do over the devices too, but it would be nice not to have to go to the mixer).
 

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JiggeryPokery
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Post 25 Jan 2015

LudvigC wrote:... One thing about the new browsing that I think gets too little spotlight is replacing devices with drag and drop. I've started using that a lot, for trying out different compressors etc, including devices without patch support. Changes my way of working quite a bit. That and the automatic coloring.
jfrichards wrote:
Very true that it gets too little spotlight, but that's entirely your fault.  Everyone would love to see someone who has mastered it create a song from scratch using the drag and drop/browser improvements, not just a 400 kph sales video.  A real tutorial on the new features in a real setting would be very valuable. (including devices, effects, patches, ordering, samples into audio tracks, into kong, redrum, nnxt, rex loops, octorex patches, from the desktop, previewing, using the lists on the left, creating efficient folders and lists for the browser, etc, etc)  And zooming the screen regularly during the video would help too.
mcatalao wrote:
Oh come on that IS the most important feature for me.
Just the fact that you can change from a synth device to a NNXT piano to a rack extension piano, to the nn-xt again with so few CLicks is a great workflow enhancer.

My only wish is that we can do the same with effects on top of the mixer (well you can do over the devices too, but it would be nice not to have to go to the mixer).
 

Hang on, hang on! Time out! Time out!! In the interests of fairness and balance and objectivity! ;)

(I joke, of course)

The ability to easily swap instruments (not sure now about effects) existed in the original sequencer, before it was axed in Reason 4. If anything, swapping instruments via the sequencer might even have been quicker in Reason 3 than it is via drag and drop in Reason 8!

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mcatalao
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Post 25 Jan 2015

I'm trying to remember how it was done in 7 and previous!

I think you'd have more clicks, and the browser was always jumping around?

I'd have to check it and i don't have an R7 copy installed.


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JiggeryPokery
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Post 25 Jan 2015

In Reason 4-7 you could still change instrument or patch enabled effect via the browser, although you would have to ensure "all patches" was enabled to allow the browser to display. Not sure that's quicker than DnD, probably not.

In Reason 1-3 the instrument was selectable via the sequencer track. So if you wanted to change from SubT to Mal, you just clicked the SubT icon on sequencer track and selected Malstrom instead. It was quite excellent, and I always really missed that functionality. That probably was quicker than DnD.

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Soft Enerji
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Post 25 Jan 2015

jfrichards wrote:A point about browser focus I made to Heng earlier:

After using R8 for a while, I realized I have to pay a lot of attention to the browser focus, which is active when the orange highlighting is on top of the patch window icons for the device.  If you double click on a patch when the device patch window is not orange, R8 will create a whole new track and device and load that patch in it.  One time I did that numerous times and then saw six other devices with tracks had been created below the one I was trying to change!  Now I always look at the device patch window to make sure it's orange, and if it's not, I click on the device patch window folder icon or hit the little folder icon above the browser list when the device itself is highlighted.  If you just highlight the device (it will be bordered in blue) that will not change the browser focus.  Even dragging a patch onto a device will not change the focus (even though it changes the patch!).  Weird idiosyncracies that hopefully will be changed in 8.2.  For me, the new browser is worth it for the drag and drop stuff, although being a long-time Reason user, I still right click and scroll through the list about 5% of the time for patches.  One nice thing about the browser is being able to click the browser back arrow and see the previous lists in the browser history where you were a minute or two ago.  There's no real preview/cancel any more, you load and listen, then go back.  It doesn't bother me any more, and all the other stuff is very cool. 
This. Once you get used to it (took me a day or so), it becomes a breeze! 

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ebop
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Post 25 Jan 2015

Yup, R8 drag and drop is flippin great for the way I construct my music. Switching patches, instruments and combinators. It's so quick and tidy. It has seriously improved 'my' flow. Auto colour matching, auto naming. Drop, etc have all just sped things up.

I used the 'cancel' patch a lot in R7 myself but I honestly don't miss it as the solution is equally as easy (remember the patch, drag it back). That's just my opinion and I can appreciate others have theirs, no problem. I know it was fashionable to slate R8 in the PUF but I hope people haven't whacked their stripes to the mast so hard that they can't give R8 a proper chance.

In saying that, people with gripes are the ones that can initiate change so if it means future improvements are on the cards, then good. Keep griping, things can always improve.

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