Reason Artifacts

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deepndark
Posts: 1270
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Finland

Post 21 Jan 2015

Hi, lets talk audio artifacts. Nothing is more annoying then hearing unpleasant digital audio artifacts.
Several reasons cause them, but avoiding them can be a pain in the ass. If you have audio signal too hot and brickwall limiting on, it causes some distortion. Anyway, how much have Propellerheads trying to make the audio clean? I hate artifacts!!

Anyone else hear how Thor is having artifacts? Especially when the Gain levels of the filers are high.
Ok, Malmström can sound both, clean and unclean, just like any Reason synth, but it needs shitloads of compromises.

Anyway, there's another thing, I'm not sure but I think that my PC has clicks and pops, that are not caused by Reason audio. I remember that Zone Alarm Firewall made audio clicks/pops. Don't know if my Antivirus and Firewall, that I use now (Avast & Private Firewall) do that.


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ambeant
Posts: 180
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

I notice this too in the legacy Reason instruments, it sounds like interference with the whole frequency spectrum, or ultrasonic fuzziness. I believe it is aliasing and is worse in some patches. New synths like Parsec, Anti-dote, Quad, Red Rock's new one, have way less of this issue maybe because of internal oversampling or some form of anti-aliasing. If PH corrects this, I believe it would be a major game changer as far as commercial use. IMO

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Majestik Monkey
Posts: 682
Joined: 07 Jul 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

Lol  i am surprised you have got any sound at all Using Avast?  :s0225:

I try to avoid aliasing from any Synth Vsti or Re , if you can create it , you can uncreate it just as easy & move on:  :comp:  



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FrankJaeger
Posts: 176
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

deepndark wrote:
Anyone else hear how Thor is having artifacts? Especially when the Gain levels of the filers are high.
Ok, Malmström can sound both, clean and unclean, just like any Reason synth, but it needs shitloads of compromises.
I thought I was the only one that got bits of nastiness from Thor. Don't get me wrong, it's a great synth but it doesn't handle sub bass well AT ALL. When you release the key you get an awful click sound on the tail which I tried to remedy by adding some release which only succeeds in slightly lowering the click and adding mud into your mix. I then started bouncing the midi to audio and cutting out the click sound at the end of every note which as you can probably imagine got old very quickly. Now I only use Subtractor for subs because it's far superior in handling it.
GED Aggro
Producer, Rapper, Songwriter, Worst DIY Mixing Engineer currently living on earth... :lol:

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 10229
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 22 Jan 2015

deepndark wrote:
Anyone else hear how Thor is having artifacts? Especially when the Gain levels of the filers are high.
Ok, Malmström can sound both, clean and unclean, just like any Reason synth, but it needs shitloads of compromises.
FrankJaeger wrote:
I thought I was the only one that got bits of nastiness from Thor. Don't get me wrong, it's a great synth but it doesn't handle sub bass well AT ALL. When you release the key you get an awful click sound on the tail which I tried to remedy by adding some release which only succeeds in slightly lowering the click and adding mud into your mix. I then started bouncing the midi to audio and cutting out the click sound at the end of every note which as you can probably imagine got old very quickly. Now I only use Subtractor for subs because it's far superior in handling it.
When gain levels of the filter are high (and self oscillate is on) there is INTENTIONAL distortion added to Thor. Try it with "Self Osc" turned off and all will be clean!

I tried to hear this "release" issue you describe, but Thor sounds squeaky clean to me. Never heard a click on the release of sub bass sounds with Thor since day one and can't figure out how to add one if I wanted to!

What settings would I use to hear this artifact? Do you have a patch you can share per chance?

I don't hear any difference in Subtractor one way or the other.

:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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ambeant
Posts: 180
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 23 Jan 2015

deepndark wrote:
Anyone else hear how Thor is having artifacts? Especially when the Gain levels of the filers are high.
Ok, Malmström can sound both, clean and unclean, just like any Reason synth, but it needs shitloads of compromises.
FrankJaeger wrote:
I thought I was the only one that got bits of nastiness from Thor. Don't get me wrong, it's a great synth but it doesn't handle sub bass well AT ALL. When you release the key you get an awful click sound on the tail which I tried to remedy by adding some release which only succeeds in slightly lowering the click and adding mud into your mix. I then started bouncing the midi to audio and cutting out the click sound at the end of every note which as you can probably imagine got old very quickly. Now I only use Subtractor for subs because it's far superior in handling it.
I don't use re-Wire and keep the real-time setting at 44.1kHz, but I wonder if these artifacts are eliminated when one rewires individual tracks because it's resampled/brickwall filtered at the host DAW.

Anyone have artifacts issues when rewiring?

deepndark
Posts: 1270
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Finland

Post 23 Jan 2015

Majestik Monkey wrote:Lol  i am surprised you have got any sound at all Using Avast?  :s0225:
Really? If it's Avast causing clicks n pops, I should use something else. Avira or .... ? Don't know.


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ambeant
Posts: 180
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 23 Jan 2015

deepndark wrote:
Anyone else hear how Thor is having artifacts? Especially when the Gain levels of the filers are high.
Ok, Malmström can sound both, clean and unclean, just like any Reason synth, but it needs shitloads of compromises.
FrankJaeger wrote:
I thought I was the only one that got bits of nastiness from Thor. Don't get me wrong, it's a great synth but it doesn't handle sub bass well AT ALL. When you release the key you get an awful click sound on the tail which I tried to remedy by adding some release which only succeeds in slightly lowering the click and adding mud into your mix. I then started bouncing the midi to audio and cutting out the click sound at the end of every note which as you can probably imagine got old very quickly. Now I only use Subtractor for subs because it's far superior in handling it.
selig wrote:
When gain levels of the filter are high (and self oscillate is on) there is INTENTIONAL distortion added to Thor. Try it with "Self Osc" turned off and all will be clean!

I tried to hear this "release" issue you describe, but Thor sounds squeaky clean to me. Never heard a click on the release of sub bass sounds with Thor since day one and can't figure out how to add one if I wanted to!

What settings would I use to hear this artifact? Do you have a patch you can share per chance?

I don't hear any difference in Subtractor one way or the other.

:)
I use 44.1kHz and most of the patches where I can hear interference/fuzziness are usually pads with long releases times and alot of high frequency content. all peak levels are below 0db. I notice a big difference from tracks produced with Thor, Malstrom, etc compared to one made with Antidote in that it's less fuzzy.

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Theo.M
Posts: 1006
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 25 Jan 2015

ambeant wrote:I notice this too in the legacy Reason instruments, it sounds like interference with the whole frequency spectrum, or ultrasonic fuzziness. I believe it is aliasing and is worse in some patches. New synths like Parsec, Anti-dote, Quad, Red Rock's new one, have way less of this issue maybe because of internal oversampling or some form of anti-aliasing. If PH corrects this, I believe it would be a major game changer as far as commercial use. IMO
I know right, I am absolutely baffled as to why with today's cpu power and the older factory devices using what can be described as literally no cpu, that props have not released a simple oversampling button for it's legacy devices, that is completely user switchable and therefore will not break backward compatibility at all. It's strange.... i mean just using the inbuilts synths at 96, especially subtractor, shows a big quality sound difference. If i was using just FSB stuff and not RE's, i'd compose at 88 or 96k for sure and i recommend anyone with a post 2010 machine to do the same. If you have a super beast you may even be able to do it with RE's. ;)

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