Ernst's Official Announcement regarding the end of PUF

[eusti]

https://www.propellerheads.se/blog/crew ... of-an-era/

Not sure if this explains anything for me... :frown:

D.

[jfrichards]

I sure hope it works, Ernst.  We all want Reason to survive and thrive.  

Yours in a Reason future,

The Kitchen Staff.


An end of an era
Posted by Ernst on 2015-01-16 in Crew
 On January 22nd Propellerhead is closing our forums. When we shipped ReBirth in 1997 we were one of the first companies in the business to start up direct communication with our customers. Mind you, this was before the term “on-line community” even existed.
But that was eighteen years ago, eons in internet time. Since then communication on the internet has changed completely. When we started, the internet was a small, closed place for tech nerds. Now it’s where we live our daily digital lives. New social channels are popping up every day and there are now more ways to communicate with like-minded than any of us have the time to fully explore.
We as a company have changed too. Over the years we have increased our communication dramatically. We’re engaging in a non-stop flow of conversations through all the channels of today and constantly monitoring those of tomorrow. It’s easier to get hold of us and talk to us than it ever was, and we’re talking to more musicians now than we ever did.
2014 was the best year for Propellerhead so far. Reason 8 turned out to be the most successful version of the program that we have ever made, which we’re extremely grateful for. And we’re completely committed to continue creating even better incarnations of our existing products, over years to come. But we’re also growing and expanding our reach through new products and services. While we’re humbled and grateful that so many people have already chosen to use our products in their music making, we also want to invite many more new musicians to the party. People who have other ideas about what music making means than we had when we started this company. And moving forward we will encourage more communication, connection and conversations between musicians, both those who are already our customers and those who will be.
It’s time to take the discussion out of the kitchen and into the streets. Look up and to meet the musicians of the world where they are.
Ernst Nathorst-Böös
CEO and Founder

[JoshuaPhilgarlic]

Not sure if this explains anything for me... :frown:

It explains... nothing.

Ernst: It’s time to take the discussion out of the kitchen and into the streets. Look up and to meet the musicians of the world where they are.

Meeting musicians by closing a well running forum? Bullshit!

[eusti]

Great idea to actually quote the text here... Saves time!
Thanks!

D.

[Nymphomation]

So.... the PUF is the Kitchen... and Facebook/instagram/twitter is the Streets?

I'm trying to read between the lines of this very vague stament, and the only things I see:

' more ways to communicate with like-minded than any of us have the time to fully explore.'

= Hosting and monitoring PUF was a strain on their resources they could do without

'It’s easier to get hold of us and talk to us than it ever was'

= "Please leave messages on facebook or twitter, we don;t really have time to check PUF"

'2014 was the best year for Propellerhead so far. Reason 8 turned out to be the most successful version of the program that we have ever made'

= "2014 was not a great year for us, everyone batch about the upgrade."

'better incarnations of our existing products, over years to come. But we’re also growing and expanding our reach through new products and services'

= "It's not ALL about just Reason, OK?"

'we also want to invite many more new musicians to the party.'

= "These people use stuff like facebook and twitter. Plus, we don't want these people to see the massively embarrassing argument threads on PUF'

'more communication, connection and conversations between musicians'

= "On Facebook and Twitter and blah blah blah"


My understanding is that the PUF was a strain on their resources - they pay people to monitor/run Facebook and Twitter, which like it or not are rather big platforms. They don't want to pay someone to run/administer/child-mind a forum too.

If anything it feels more like an indication of how badly they're doing if they can't afford to do that...

[-008']

Just read this a moment ago myself.

They know their bizniz better than I do! So that's ok. If they dont want a oldskool community forum, the oldskool community will just make one here I suppose! The social thing will serve them fine, but some of us old farts still like the message boards from the before the turn of the century.

It's starting to make sense to me a little bit. Discover seems kind of like a loop collab thing for someone who has no interest in publishing or selling their music. (Maybe short little ditties made on a train, with an iPhone app? ) So perhaps they really have made more money and/or fame recently off of: Figure, Rebirth, Thor apps? Who knows... It would explain alot though.

Speculations aside...as long as Reason remains Reason I'll be a Reason user.

[tibah]

The thing is, PH is contributing to all big known services (FB, YT,...) already. Maybe it's easier to monitor them. I'm pretty sure that Mattias for example does most of the Twitter conversation already and he did most forum "moderation".

[CharlyCharlzz]

we been beta testing all along (even the none beta testers) to get throwed out like dirty towels ,

I am not fallowing the new direction here and I will not suggest more to Propellerhead , they breaked the only thing I had in them (FAITH) !

If I was not a reason 7.1 addict I would say they lost me but I am not sad I just need to buy a lot of Corn .

[JiggeryPokery]

There's a troll in my kitchen what am I gonna do?
There's a troll in my kitchen what am I gonna go?
I'm gonna fix that troll that's what I'm gonna do
I'm gonna fix that troll

When you open your mouth you don't talk, you shout
And you give every body the blame
But when they catch you up they will shut you up
And you got no one to blame

There's a troll in my kitchen what am I gonna do?
There's a troll in my kitchen what am I gonna go?
I'm gonna fix that troll that's what I'm gonna do
I'm gonna fix that troll

When you out on the street you practice lies and deceit
And you scandalize my name
But when I catch you up I'm gonna pull you up
I'm gonna check out inside your brain

There's a troll in my kitchen what am I gonna do?
There's a troll in my kitchen what am I gonna go?
I'm gonna fix that troll that's what I'm gonna do
I'm gonna fix that troll

When you deh pon the scene you make everyone scream
Because they know you're so unjust
But when they catch you up they will kick you up
Because you're someone they just can't trust

There's a troll in my kitchen what am I gonna do?
There's a troll in my kitchen what am I gonna go?
I'm gonna burn down the kitchen
That's what I'm gonna do!

[davidvilla]

"Look up and to meet the musicians of the world where they are."

I don't think I can roll my eyes any harder than i just did.

I've always thought Ernst was full of sh*t.

Ernst - you are full of sh*t.

[zeebot]

Didn't really explain anything.
Doesn't explain why they are dropping the forum apart from that it is 'outdated' as a form of communication. Well if they were that outdated why is the format still used massively all across the internet?
I am sick and tired of the slide towards 'social media' by companies.
Facebook and Twitter?? Not a chance in hell I would sign up to those soul destroying sites!
What props are basically saying is 'thanks guys for getting us to where we are now but we are heading in a different direction and need new hip, socially savvy users with saggy jeans because thats where the money is'
I said in the summer I didn't like the way props were heading and this has now made it all too clear now.
Not that impressed with discovery either though it is early days.
I feel like I've been dumped!

[CharlyCharlzz]

to me if the futur aint got a board to chat it's not the futur of communication LOL
 we use boards of stones and forums for 12'000 years so if internet was better then what it is now we would already know !

there is no communication with it , drop a CD of your beats in the Hood and you got your Hood version of discover LOL

[Failed Muso]

As 008 says, nobody, not even those that think they do, knows the Props business better than they do. The forum didn't get switched off because Ernst, whilst having a quiet poop on his Ikea loo, thought, "Hmmm... I fancy shutting the forum down... MATTIAS?? Shut that shit down now!"

There will have been a plan, which, as many have postulated, started when the forum got hidden down near the footer. The crazies kept on coming, and with each release, the lunacy just carried on. The good stuff still came, but you had to wade through inordinate amounts of shit to find it. It got very tiresome.

There's just as good a chance that the forum as it was actually harmed business, but only those guys really know.
As far as I'm concerned, the forum as a useful, fun place to be ceased to exist a few years ago and since then has just been a focal point for egos and idiocy. I haven't been fully active there for a long time. It depressed me. So, let's hope that whatever their plan is, it's a good one that sees our favourite toy just get better. And let's hope that this place really does bring back the spirit of what the PUF once was

[JiggeryPokery]

As 008 says, nobody, not even those that think they do, knows the Props business better than they do. The forum didn't get switched off because Ernst, whilst having a quiet poop on his Ikea loo, thought, "Hmmm... I fancy shutting the forum down... MATTIAS?? Shut that shit down now!"

There will have been a plan, which, as many have postulated, started when the forum got hidden down near the footer. The crazies kept on coming, and with each release, the lunacy just carried on. The good stuff still came, but you had to wade through inordinate amounts of shit to find it. It got very tiresome.

There's just as good a chance that the forum as it was actually harmed business, but only those guys really know.
As far as I'm concerned, the forum as a useful, fun place to be ceased to exist a few years ago and since then has just been a focal point for egos and idiocy. I haven't been fully active there for a long time. It depressed me. So, let's hope that whatever their plan is, it's a good one that sees our favourite toy just get better. And let's hope that this place really does bring back the spirit of what the PUF once was

I'm don't really agree with you here, Rob.

It's long been known Ernst hated the forum, and I think they've been looking for an excuse to kill it for years - they nearly did it at the end of 2013. It was fine up to that point; no forum is going to be crazy-free, but when they brought it back with the strange Basic/Advanced arrangement, it had a strange side-effect: it killed off off-topic posts, so the place actually became less friendly.

The problem is not a few loudmouths on the forum, or people complaining about R8 - as largely that stuff was fairly constructive, especially comments by people like Giles and myself and many others.

The problem is one which a lot of businesses face with just one major product line, that's flat growth. They think people must therefore hate the product and the only way to grow again is to completely overhaul it, both visually and in usage. This is the curse that befell R8. They didn't know what to do, so they did the worst thing possible; killed the stuff people liked. Microsoft, Apple, Google, Ableton, they all do it eventually. The disappointing thing is that the test pilots, alpha and beta users provided this feedback, and it's been roundly ignored. What can you do?

[tibah]

May I ask the RE developers in here -  Wasn't the developer forum the best way to connect to other developers and PH themselves?

[zeebot]

I'm also still not convinced that " Reason 8 turned out to be the most successful version of the program that we have ever made"
Really? I dont know the figures but judging by the public reaction it was a dud, but what do I know? I'm not hip enough I guess.

[Failed Muso]

I'm don't really agree with you here, Rob.

It's long been known Ernst hated the forum, and I think they've been looking for an excuse to kill it for years - they nearly did it at the end of 2013. It was fine up to that point; no forum is going to be crazy-free, but when they brought it back with the strange Basic/Advanced arrangement, it had a strange side-effect: it killed off off-topic posts, so the place actually became less friendly.

The problem is not a few loudmouths on the forum, or people complaining about R8 - as largely that stuff was fairly constructive, especially comments by people like Giles and myself and many others.

The problem is one which a lot of businesses face with just one major product line, that's flat growth. They think people must therefore hate the product and the only way to grow again is to completely overhaul it, both visually and in usage. This is the curse that befell R8. They didn't know what to do, so they did the worst thing possible; killed the stuff people liked. Microsoft, Apple, Google, Ableton, they all do it eventually. The disappointing thing is that the test pilots, alpha and beta users provided this feedback, and it's been roundly ignored. What can you do?

All valid points, and I thought Giles put it best when he likened the forum to a well laid lawn that was left unattended. They clearly don't have the manpower, nor will, to manage the place properly, which is a shame. Farming that responsibility out to external mods is just too risky and so, like the crazy aunt in the family, they decided to just ignore it until it got to a point where they could kill it.

We don't know for sure what they might do next in terms of engaging the user base, but I think a lot of people are just butt hurt that they can't go somewhere official and whinge. At least the forum gave people some hope that the Props might see they moans and groans. I guess we all used the PUF for different things but it ceased to be a useful place for me to spend my time a long while ago.
But then what the f**k do I know, I actually like Reason 8 and think it was a good update.

Whatever, it is what it is. They're shutting it down and maybe this forum will become more to my personal liking than the last one.

Maybe all those people posting new topic after new topic about the travesty of the PUF shutdown might actually spend more time using Reason than complaining about it because, let's face it, it was glaringly obvious that posting on a forum was far more worthy of their time than making music with Reason

Oh, and we still need to sort out that beer (or five!)

[JiggeryPokery]

 

All valid points, and I thought Giles put it best when he likened the forum to a well laid lawn that was left unattended. 

lol, I hadn't seen that.

It is true that the solution to all garden management problems these days is to bury it under concrete rather than just buy a lawnmower

[Some Desperate Glory]

The problem is one which a lot of businesses face with just one major product line, that's flat growth. They think people must therefore hate the product and the only way to grow again is to completely overhaul it, both visually and in usage. This is the curse that befell R8. They didn't know what to do, so they did the worst thing possible; killed the stuff people liked. Microsoft, Apple, Google, Ableton, they all do it eventually. The disappointing thing is that the test pilots, alpha and beta users provided this feedback, and it's been roundly ignored. What can you do?

I think this is the crux of the issue.  Of course I know nothing about the internal workings of their business but they certainly project the impression that their future is in mobile toys and not so much in a complex DAW.  I find Reason 8 to be a rather pathetic kowtow to St. Ives and that really shouldn't be a surprise since Props are obviously pursuing the "casual musician" for whom a flat UI is a feature.

This is exactly the mistake Apple made in the mid 90s and it almost cost them their company.  Apple seem to me to be determined to make the same mistake again but for the moment they are keeping the i-stuff distinct from their excellent Mac line.  Similarly I was hoping Props would keep Reason distinct from their mobile stuff (Figure, etc) but it doesn't appear to be the direction they are choosing to go.

It's a shame from my perspective but it might be the right financial move for them.  We shall see.

[Arsenic]

I must be a bit thick, as Ernst's post made little sense to me. I assume he was alluding to the use of the popular social media sites to engage with PH customers\musicians. OK. Through those methods, to my mind, we could "communicate", "notify" and "announce". But to me, the line "And moving forward, we will encourage more communication, connection and conversation between musicians" seems at odds with promoting the use of Twitter, Facebook, Google+, YouTube etc. Particularly with those that pursue a minimal character content.

2014 being the best year and R8 being the most successful version of Reason - I could be well out of line here, but it just seems like smoke screening.....I mean, let's face it, no company is going to admit that they royally screwed up......But I would love to be wrong on that one, for the companies sake.

I guess, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I think, PH will do want PH want to do - but it sure as hell doesn't sound like they want to engage with their customers....


*Edited for my atrocious spelling*

[tibah]

There was an interview with Ernst from some years ago, basically him sitting outside, trees in the background, where he talked about the evolution of technology. He came up with how technology helps already in terms of photography and also raised the question, how much technology should help so one feels that he still made the picture and not just the technology behind it.

Then Audiomatic came along, which was and still is a much discussed device. One may feel that it's exactly that and compare it to certain picture transformation application. 

Last but not least, there is this very weird video with Lucky Date "Doing your first beat in Reason" which came along with Reason 8. Essentially, for the first minutes or so, he's using nothing but REX loops, giving the impression how easy it is.

Of course, Reason has a level of complexity to it and not only at the back of the rack. Programming synths, editing, processing, that all takes time and practice, but maybe also they are trying to get this "new" generation of possible musicians / producers into their main application, Reason.

For some of us, that are more into advanced stuff, this all leads to some huge question marks all over the place, but I can only guess that they're trying to find a place in between "casual" and "pro".

[selig]

Ernst: We’re engaging in a non-stop flow of conversations through all the channels of today…

Giles: Yea, all BUT ONE!  

I just don't understand double-speak I guess. :frown:

[jfrichards]

 

[rvman]

I'm not a long time reason user, having just gotten 7 last year. And personally I love Reason 8.

But I don't use Facebook and don't like it when companies go mainly with it as a way of keeping touch. In fact, I've refused to buy products from businesses that I like because they only do Facebook. I am on twitter, however, so I get the PH tweets.

I will continue to use Reason because it's a blast to make music with. But I won't be so quick to upgrade in the future. I want to see where PH is going.

[Heater]

I'm also still not convinced that " Reason 8 turned out to be the most successful version of the program that we have ever made"
Really? I dont know the figures but judging by the public reaction it was a dud, but what do I know? I'm not hip enough I guess.

Yeah.  I don't believe that either.  I've upgraded all my versions of Reason on day one and this was the only one I've not upgraded to.
Lot's of other folks didn't upgrade either.