For the Reason 8 naysayers.........

[selig]

I think with the additional revenue stream from REs the Reason upgrades should become cheaper. So for a subscription based service I'd pay 40 € for a 6 month subscription max and only if there will be monthly updates with little fixes or improvements and quarterly updates with new features or overhauled devices.

I wouldn't call them additional revenues since there is also an equal or greater amount of additional work involved in creating them. So there's little chance that this would affect the price of Reason in any way IMO. 

[ClassickHitz]

No, not yet. I'm glad I stuck to my guns as it seems they are only course correcting some mistakes; although I was quite disappointed because I've faithfully upgraded when ever a new version came out since version 2.5.

Fixing things that should never have been messed with in the first place doesn't count as an upgrade from where I'm viewing things. 

I'll wait for R9 and possibly upgrade from 7.1 depending on what's being offered. Either way it will definitely make more sense financially unless Props increases the upgrade price over the usual $129.

[madmacman]

I'll wait for R9 and possibly upgrade from 7.1 depending on what's being offered. Either way it will definitely make more sense financially unless Props increases the upgrade price over the usual $129.

Same here. But if they raise the upgrade fee (or change the upgrade rules, e.g. only one version step) then I'm out. Too many tempting offers out there in a similar price range. Upgrade for > $129 sounds like business harakiri to me. 

[joeyluck]

I'll wait for R9 and possibly upgrade from 7.1 depending on what's being offered. Either way it will definitely make more sense financially unless Props increases the upgrade price over the usual $129.

Same here. But if they raise the upgrade fee (or change the upgrade rules, e.g. only one version step) then I'm out. Too many tempting offers out there in a similar price range.

Funny because most upgrades cost more and most DAW developers stagger the upgrade pricing... I don't see that ever happening here. But interesting to see people's reaction to a concept that is pretty standard elsewhere. Another reason to love Reason!

[Gulale]

Yes but most DAWs upgrade price drop to 20 bucks on Black Friday . In the other hand, Reason upgrade price stand still like a country flag. Hell Fl studio upgrade is free just to mention.

[zakalwe]

i would love to see a free upgrade model for reason.  it's such a good selling point for FL studio.

they seem to target new users more these days and make a ton off royalties so i imagine it could be feasible.

[avasopht]

i would love to see a free upgrade model for reason.  it's such a good selling point for FL studio.

they seem to target new users more these days and make a ton off royalties so i imagine it could be feasible.

Not without knowing their actual revenue and expenses.

[zakalwe]

i would love to see a free upgrade model for reason.  it's such a good selling point for FL studio.

they seem to target new users more these days and make a ton off royalties so i imagine it could be feasible.

Not without knowing their actual revenue and expenses.

yes but we know what they make on RE and IDT percentage wise.  and their more recent financials are quite healthy.

i'm sure they must have considered it.  the benefit of keeping all users current for the health of their app ecosystem is apparent.

[avasopht]

yes but we know what they make on RE and IDT percentage wise.  and their more recent financials are quite healthy.

i'm sure they must have considered it.  the benefit of keeping all users current for the health of their app ecosystem is apparent.

A percentage on its own means absolutely nothing. It is all about what it is a percentage of. I'm not saying it's not an option, for all we know that might be what they're working towards. But only Propellerhead will know whether it brings in enough, and it is down to them to calculate what pricing structures will be able to sustain them as it's vital that they operate in a way that pays their way. They can't afford to just jump ship on a whim.

[zakalwe]

yes but we know what they make on RE and IDT percentage wise.  and their more recent financials are quite healthy.

i'm sure they must have considered it.  the benefit of keeping all users current for the health of their app ecosystem is apparent.

A percentage on its own means absolutely nothing. It is all about what it is a percentage of. I'm not saying it's not an option, for all we know that might be what they're working towards. But only Propellerhead will know whether it brings in enough, and it is down to them to calculate what pricing structures will be able to sustain them as it's vital that they operate in a way that pays their way. They can't afford to just jump ship on a whim.

well, from an anecdotal view, my last paid upgrade was in 2013 and i've since spent ~€450 on 3rd party RE.  that's probably equivalent revenue if i had just bought R8 instead.

my credit card is flying out of my wallet as reliably as gabe newell meme, except for their crappy upgrades that is.

[zero01101]

well, from an anecdotal view, my last paid upgrade was in 2013 and i've since spent ~€450 on 3rd party RE.

i just checked my spreadsheet and shouldn't have; since r7 (no r8 yet) i've spent $2018 USD on rack extensions D:

[selig]

yes but we know what they make on RE and IDT percentage wise.  and their more recent financials are quite healthy.

i'm sure they must have considered it.  the benefit of keeping all users current for the health of their app ecosystem is apparent.

A percentage on its own means absolutely nothing. It is all about what it is a percentage of. I'm not saying it's not an option, for all we know that might be what they're working towards. But only Propellerhead will know whether it brings in enough, and it is down to them to calculate what pricing structures will be able to sustain them as it's vital that they operate in a way that pays their way. They can't afford to just jump ship on a whim.

well, from an anecdotal view, my last paid upgrade was in 2013 and i've since spent ~€450 on 3rd party RE.  that's probably equivalent revenue if i had just bought R8 instead.

my credit card is flying out of my wallet as reliably as gabe newell meme, except for their crappy upgrades that is.

People keep talking about this "additional revenue" from REs as if there is NO additional cost associated with it! So yes, the Props are making more than before, but they are also SPENDING more than before in order to do so.

[Gorilla Texas]

Nope,not really impressed with Reason got other DAWs that do so much more. 

you might've missed the point of the question........but good on ya! I've got other DAWs too

How did I miss the point? You asked is v8.3 tempting now with the new things it brings,I said "nope not impressed I have other DAWs that do more" how is that not on the subject at hand? I only use Reason for kong that's it, I don't edit audio or use the effects in Reason. The only way I would upgrade is if the would fix the physical drum modules to mute each other like the drums synths do.

[Gorilla Texas]

yes but we know what they make on RE and IDT percentage wise.  and their more recent financials are quite healthy.

i'm sure they must have considered it.  the benefit of keeping all users current for the health of their app ecosystem is apparent.

A percentage on its own means absolutely nothing. It is all about what it is a percentage of. I'm not saying it's not an option, for all we know that might be what they're working towards. But only Propellerhead will know whether it brings in enough, and it is down to them to calculate what pricing structures will be able to sustain them as it's vital that they operate in a way that pays their way. They can't afford to just jump ship on a whim.

well, from an anecdotal view, my last paid upgrade was in 2013 and i've since spent ~€450 on 3rd party RE.  that's probably equivalent revenue if i had just bought R8 instead.

my credit card is flying out of my wallet as reliably as gabe newell meme, except for their crappy upgrades that is.

People keep talking about this "additional revenue" from REs as if there is NO additional cost associated with it! So yes, the Props are making more than before, but they are also SPENDING more than before in order to do so.

I think people don't understand what you're saying because we can't figure out how props is spending more money on RE's you or any other dev makes???

[Exowildebeest]

Nope,not really impressed with Reason got other DAWs that do so much more. 

you might've missed the point of the question........but good on ya! I've got other DAWs too 

The only way I would upgrade is if the would fix the physical drum modules to mute each other like the drums synths do.

That seems a rather tiny thing to me - but if it's that important to you... Kong already allows you to set interdependent muting for all modules, whether they're Nano samplers or the synth modules.

[Gorilla Texas]

Nope,not really impressed with Reason got other DAWs that do so much more. 

you might've missed the point of the question........but good on ya! I've got other DAWs too 

The only way I would upgrade is if the would fix the physical drum modules to mute each other like the drums synths do.

That seems a rather tiny thing to me - but if it's that important to you... Kong already allows you to set interdependent muting for all modules, whether they're Nano samplers or the synth modules.

No physical drums don't mute each other that's what pisses me off! Try it.

[selig]

yes but we know what they make on RE and IDT percentage wise.  and their more recent financials are quite healthy.

i'm sure they must have considered it.  the benefit of keeping all users current for the health of their app ecosystem is apparent.

A percentage on its own means absolutely nothing. It is all about what it is a percentage of. I'm not saying it's not an option, for all we know that might be what they're working towards. But only Propellerhead will know whether it brings in enough, and it is down to them to calculate what pricing structures will be able to sustain them as it's vital that they operate in a way that pays their way. They can't afford to just jump ship on a whim.

well, from an anecdotal view, my last paid upgrade was in 2013 and i've since spent ~€450 on 3rd party RE.  that's probably equivalent revenue if i had just bought R8 instead.

my credit card is flying out of my wallet as reliably as gabe newell meme, except for their crappy upgrades that is.

People keep talking about this "additional revenue" from REs as if there is NO additional cost associated with it! So yes, the Props are making more than before, but they are also SPENDING more than before in order to do so.

I think people don't understand what you're saying because we can't figure out how props is spending more money on RE's you or any other dev makes???

That's understandable since most don't know what goes on behind the scenes. But I can tell you that there are MANY expenses they cover that other developers would traditionally cover, such as fees for copy protection (do you know what it costs for iLok support for a single product?), developer tools, developer support, costs of running an online store, accounting personal, SDK development, etc. (I've not included any initial development costs for the RE platform etc)

Not sure why this is a mystery to some, but these cost are very real and have to be covered in order to stay in business!

[esselfortium]

People keep talking about this "additional revenue" from REs as if there is NO additional cost associated with it! So yes, the Props are making more than before, but they are also SPENDING more than before in order to do so.

I think people don't understand what you're saying because we can't figure out how props is spending more money on RE's you or any other dev makes???

Developing and supporting the SDK and IDT, in addition to developing their own REs, in addition to continuing to develop Reason?

[normen]

No physical drums don't mute each other that's what pisses me off! Try it.

I don't quite get what is muting what in your problem. You mean the same pad muting itself? Because single pads don't mute other pads. As for the linked muting, thats for things like open/closed HiHats etc. and yeah, try it for yourself, if you hit an open HiHat and then close it with the pedal it most definitely mutes the open sound

[Grumbleweed]

I downloaded the 8.3 beta, tried it and uninstalled it. I just don't get why it costs £89 and I hate that it creates a new device when I want to change a patch within a device.
Reason 9 had better offer something groovy or else it's R7 for a few more years.

Grum.

[selig]

I downloaded the 8.3 beta, tried it and uninstalled it. I just don't get why it costs £89 and I hate that it creates a new device when I want to change a patch within a device. Reason 9 had better offer something groovy or else it's R7 for a few more years. Grum.

The beta doesn't cost anything (does it?), nor does the update IIRC, but I could be wrong here.

And it DOESN'T create a new device when you "want to change a patch", assuming you understand that to change a patch you must be "browsing" for a patch with the desired device (indicated by the bright orange color around the browser icons in the target device). 

Of course, if you switch focus to another device or to NO device and then continue browsing, a new device WILL be created (as expected) because at this point you are telling it to create a new device! 

I understand this can accidentally happen at first, but this has not happened to me since about five minutes after learning how it works. 

[Gorilla Texas]

No physical drums don't mute each other that's what pisses me off! Try it.

I don't quite get what is muting what in your problem. You mean the same pad muting itself? Because single pads don't mute other pads.

As for the linked muting, thats for things like open/closed HiHats etc.

and yeah, try it for yourself, if you hit an open HiHat and then close it with the pedal it most definitely mutes the open sound

People who do dirty south/trap music use link mute for kicks so we can use long decayed kicks to cutoff other long decayed kicks pitched up/down on different pads without phase issues. Listen to any trap song and you will hear kicks in different pitches,the only way to achieve this is with mute link.

We also use it for the ever so important snare roll or trap cymbal which is the problem in kong. In FL all audio/midi notes can cutoff other notes or channels.

So I guess kong needs a cutoff link where each channel can mute the other.   

[joeyluck]

I downloaded the 8.3 beta, tried it and uninstalled it. I just don't get why it costs £89 and I hate that it creates a new device when I want to change a patch within a device. Reason 9 had better offer something groovy or else it's R7 for a few more years. Grum.

The beta doesn't cost anything (does it?), nor does the update IIRC, but I could be wrong here.

And it DOESN'T create a new device when you "want to change a patch", assuming you understand that to change a patch you must be "browsing" for a patch with the desired device (indicated by the bright orange color around the browser icons in the target device). 

Of course, if you switch focus to another device or to NO device and then continue browsing, a new device WILL be created (as expected) because at this point you are telling it to create a new device! 

I understand this can accidentally happen at first, but this has not happened to me since about five minutes after learning how it works. 

Yup, it used to happen to me all the time! And after a little bit of time with Reason 8.3, it happens less often, but it still happens. I'm hoping I get used to it. I'm sure I will. But for others who find it impossible to work with... I had an idea in the past, but not sure if there was a reason it wouldn't work...?

What if a 'single click' loaded a patch for which you are browsing and a 'double click' created a device? That way, if a device did not have browse focus, you would realize quickly because a single click would not load the patch. You would then apply focus to the device in which you want to browse patches and continue on... And there would be muscle memory involved in single click to load a patch vs. double click to create a new device. Kind of like double clicking in the sequencer to create a note.

Or, if that doesn't work, maybe a Preference to turn on where the only way to create a device is via Dragging and Dropping or 'Create...' via the drop down. And it wouldn't matter if a device had focus or not, as any clicks in the browser wouldn't do anything but load, or not load patches.

[joeyluck]

All that said, I've tried to get in the habit of dragging and dropping everything. If I'm doing that, I'm certainly not creating anything by accident. I'm dragging devices and patches into the rack either into their own places to create them, or dragging patches onto devices to load them. Or I'm dragging devices on top of devices to replace them.

And as long as I do that initially by always dragging and dropping the FIRST patch onto a device, I've at least reassured myself I've given it focus and can continue to browse via the browser as I normally would. New habits to create and many ways to do it. This is mine for now

[zakalwe]

People keep talking about this "additional revenue" from REs as if there is NO additional cost associated with it! So yes, the Props are making more than before, but they are also SPENDING more than before in order to do so.

like on discover and take and figure and the rigs etc.  except those additional costs and heavy discounts are apparently absorbed by the company.  i don't see how that is particularly different.