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Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by Popey
Good of propellerheads to keep us in the loop regarding the vst performance update. I am hoping this update also fixes the issue i have with one vst that worked in reason but now crashes and will not work (the vst developer stated the issue is how reason handles an exception and has contacted them but not being a coder myself i don't know what this really means). Still find it weird a vst would work and then not - has anyone else had this issue?
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by Loque
Popey wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Good of propellerheads to keep us in the loop regarding the vst performance update. I am hoping this update also fixes the issue i have with one vst that worked in reason but now crashes and will not work (the vst developer stated the issue is how reason handles an exception and has contacted them but not being a coder myself i don't know what this really means). Still find it weird a vst would work and then not - has anyone else had this issue?
No, and what the dev said is bs. If there is a exception thrown and cannot be handled before it will be thrown, you have a problem. I dunno all details, but that was weird what the dev said imo
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by EdGrip
pongasoft wrote: ↑14 Dec 2018
As far as I am concerned, I prefer a million times getting updates like this even if is less of a good news than total silence!
This times a million. Thanks Mattias!
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by Popey
No, and what the dev said is bs. If there is a exception thrown and cannot be handled before it will be thrown, you have a problem. I dunno all details, but that was weird what the dev said imo
[/quote]
Interesting, i did find it weird that the vst worked then didnt. At the time i thought it was connected to a win 10 update (only thing that had changed on pc) but got this response from dev (Reason, it is incorrectly handling an exception that is already handled in our code. I'll contact their support again in regards to this issue.)
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by Creativemind
Popey wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
No, and what the dev said is bs. If there is a exception thrown and cannot be handled before it will be thrown, you have a problem. I dunno all details, but that was weird what the dev said imo
Interesting, i did find it weird that the vst worked then didnt. At the time i thought it was connected to a win 10 update (only thing that had changed on pc) but got this response from dev (Reason, it is incorrectly handling an exception that is already handled in our code. I'll contact their support again in regards to this issue.)
[/quote]
Yeah, dunno what's bs about that. The dev has no reason (excuse the pun) to lie about it. What's the betting the said vst works fine in other daw's?
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by xylyx
Creativemind wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
(Reason, it is incorrectly handling an exception that is already handled in our code. I'll contact their support again in regards to this issue.)
Yeah, dunno what's bs about that. The dev has no reason (excuse the pun) to lie about it. What's the betting the said vst works fine in other daw's?
Not claiming to be an expert in VST programming (I'm not) but if the dev's code is already handling the exception, then why would Reason need to handle the exception itself?
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by Loque
xylyx wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Creativemind wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Yeah, dunno what's bs about that. The dev has no reason (excuse the pun) to lie about it. What's the betting the said vst works fine in other daw's?
Not claiming to be an expert in VST programming (I'm not) but if the dev's code is already handling the exception, then why would Reason need to handle the exception itself?
The question should be, why is there an exception, why is it caught and can be caught, and risky in witch state is the application?
Beside this, the host can install special handlers for this and a client never should install a handle. And if the VST runs in an isolated process or box which is controlled by Reason, i guess Reason recognized there is a problem and acts as there is a problem by deactivation. Well, that is what I would do with such a peace of software.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by thx
xylyx wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Not claiming to be an expert in VST programming (I'm not) but if the dev's code is already handling the exception, then why would Reason need to handle the exception itself?
Read the quote again, you missed the word "incorrectly".
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by chimp_spanner
Creativemind wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Popey wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
No, and what the dev said is bs. If there is a exception thrown and cannot be handled before it will be thrown, you have a problem. I dunno all details, but that was weird what the dev said imo
Interesting, i did find it weird that the vst worked then didnt. At the time i thought it was connected to a win 10 update (only thing that had changed on pc) but got this response from dev (Reason, it is incorrectly handling an exception that is already handled in our code. I'll contact their support again in regards to this issue.)
Yeah, dunno what's bs about that. The dev has no reason (excuse the pun) to lie about it. What's the betting the said vst works fine in other daw's?
[/quote]
Was it Voltage Modular by any chance? Because I got the same response. Ended up having to get the purchase refunded. Shame because it seemed great and it worked in Cubase. But without VST functionality in Reason I'd be just as well off using VCV Rack, which is free. So *shrugs*
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by Popey
Was it Voltage Modular by any chance? Because I got the same response. Ended up having to get the purchase refunded. Shame because it seemed great and it worked in Cubase. But without VST functionality in Reason I'd be just as well off using VCV Rack, which is free. So *shrugs*
[/quote]
No animate but interesting we got same dev response
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by chimp_spanner
Popey wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Was it Voltage Modular by any chance? Because I got the same response. Ended up having to get the purchase refunded. Shame because it seemed great and it worked in Cubase. But without VST functionality in Reason I'd be just as well off using VCV Rack, which is free. So *shrugs*
No animate but interesting we got same dev response
[/quote]
Yeah, very! And they said they wouldn't be able to address it until well into next year! Like I said, it's a shame cos the plugin was great.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by joeyluck
Just a heads up, y'all are breaking quotes and they are being attributed to the wrong people.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by chimp_spanner
joeyluck wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Just a heads up, y'all are breaking quotes and they are being attributed to the wrong people.
Weird! I was just pressing the quote button. But yeah noticed it looked weird.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by xylyx
thx wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
xylyx wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Not claiming to be an expert in VST programming (I'm not) but if the dev's code is already handling the exception, then why would Reason need to handle the exception itself?
Read the quote again, you missed the word "incorrectly".
No, I didn't. The quote suggests that Reason is incorrectly handling an exception that they say their plugin already handles...
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by avasopht
Creativemind wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Yeah, dunno what's bs about that. The dev has no reason (excuse the pun) to lie about it. What's the betting the said vst works fine in other daw's?
It basically works like this, if an exception is thrown in the VST that is not handled in the VST then the VST has a serious bug. The DAW should not be responsible for patching unhandled exceptions. Maybe most other DAWs are doing this, but the problem still lies with the VST that hasn't handled its exceptions and not the DAW that hasn't covered over the bug.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by joeyluck
chimp_spanner wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
joeyluck wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Just a heads up, y'all are breaking quotes and they are being attributed to the wrong people.
Weird! I was just pressing the quote button. But yeah noticed it looked weird.
Haha all good. It just takes one and then it's all down hill from there, once folks start quoting that one broken quote.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 16 Dec 2018
by Popey
Apologies if it was me, i deleted some of the quote so only relevant part remained so it could have been me. If so it was not intended
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 19 Dec 2018
by tobypearce
Do we know if the changes in 10.3 will address the graphical performance issues - them being the ones that are obliging many Mac users to switch to low res mode to enable Reason to function without crackles and graphics glitches?
I'm asking: are the graphics/audio glitches caused (or made worse) by the buffer issue that's being addressed by 10.3?
('m not asking about more fundamental changes like hi-res graphics to Reason devices etc - that's different.)
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 19 Dec 2018
by buddard
tobypearce wrote: ↑19 Dec 2018
Do we know if the changes in 10.3 will address the graphical performance issues - them being the ones that are obliging many Mac users to switch to low res mode to enable Reason to function without crackles and graphics glitches?
I was hoping for that as well, but since they haven't mentioned anything about it I'm not expecting it to be fixed this time around...
I'm asking: are the graphics/audio glitches caused (or made worse) by the buffer issue that's being addressed by 10.3?
I don't think so, as people seem to be experiencing graphics performance problems even when not running VSTs.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 19 Dec 2018
by madmacman
tobypearce wrote: ↑19 Dec 2018
Do we know if the changes in 10.3 will address the graphical performance issues - them being the ones that are obliging many Mac users to switch to low res mode to enable Reason to function without crackles and graphics glitches?
My guess: revamped graphics engine comes as major update with R11. But (as discussed in another thread) I wouldn't hold my breath until Q3/Q4 2019.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 19 Dec 2018
by antic604
avasopht wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Creativemind wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
Yeah, dunno what's bs about that. The dev has no reason (excuse the pun) to lie about it. What's the betting the said vst works fine in other daw's?
It basically works like this, if an exception is thrown in the VST that is not handled in the VST then the VST has a serious bug. The DAW should not be responsible for patching unhandled exceptions. Maybe most other DAWs are doing this, but the problem still lies with the VST that hasn't handled its exceptions and not the DAW that hasn't covered over the bug.
I don't think it's THAT simple - the plugin (Voltage Modular) works perfectly fine in Bitwig, Live and Studio One and hasn't caused crashes or other problems, so I'd guess there's something specific going on with Reason's wrapper. I'd be willing to bet money that Props coded their VST wrapper to be 100% VST-spec compliant, but in real world there's lots of "freedom" in how VSTs are coded (I'm not saying this is a positive thing!) which results in a lot of mess and lack of standardisation, e.g. just compare how different VSTs behave on high-DPI screens and how DAW developers need to get out of their way to support them properly.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 19 Dec 2018
by ScuzzyEye
antic604 wrote: ↑19 Dec 2018
avasopht wrote: ↑16 Dec 2018
It basically works like this, if an exception is thrown in the VST that is not handled in the VST then the VST has a serious bug. The DAW should not be responsible for patching unhandled exceptions. Maybe most other DAWs are doing this, but the problem still lies with the VST that hasn't handled its exceptions and not the DAW that hasn't covered over the bug.
I don't think it's THAT simple - the plugin (Voltage Modular) works perfectly fine in Bitwig, Live and Studio One and hasn't caused crashes or other problems, so I'd guess there's something specific going on with Reason's wrapper. I'd be willing to bet money that Props coded their VST wrapper to be 100% VST-spec compliant, but in real world there's lots of "freedom" in how VSTs are coded (I'm not saying this is a positive thing!) which results in a lot of mess and lack of standardisation, e.g. just compare how different VSTs behave on high-DPI screens and how DAW developers need to get out of their way to support them properly.
I can be both. That simple, and that the Props were just following the spec. Now, I've not looked the the VST SDK for a while, so I don't know if there's a rule. But if there was a line that says, "don't throw exceptions to the host," and the Props assumed there would be no unhandled exceptions coming their way, it would result in exactly this.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 19 Dec 2018
by dancing fool
So no fix for the Voltage Modular crash in reasons10.3 update? It's a pitty.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 19 Dec 2018
by ScuzzyEye
dancing fool wrote: ↑19 Dec 2018
So no fix for the Voltage Modular crash in reasons10.3 update? It's a pitty.
I don't think anyone has said that. They are definitely looking at the VST interface to improve performance. So while they're in there, they might be adding a catch-all exception handler.
Re: Update on Reason 10.3 and VST performance
Posted: 19 Dec 2018
by antic604
dancing fool wrote: ↑19 Dec 2018
So no fix for the Voltage Modular crash in reasons10.3 update? It's a pitty.
It doesn't crash. It never shows up as an available VST.