Why R12 has got me a little worried ...

[bxbrkrz]

When I bought Suite I immediately got PX7, the only tool I felt was missing from the bundle. With such a saving it was a no-brainer.
Always buy and enjoy the now.
Never the more stuff for free is coming maybe in the future I swear to you.
With that attitude you'll never get hit by fomo.
You'll always be happy now

I'm fine, I never bought Suite.

My issue is just what all of this signals.

And that was just the introduction. A set-up, if you will.

My biggest issue is the state of the release. That should be concerning for anyone who is invested in the future success of Reason.

At the same time, a few of their recent decisions (and some old ones that are not only controversial but pretty petty) seem a little off.

The way this release was handled was far too cringeworthy.

Now I'm not complaining. There's nothing I'm upset about or demand I feel is not met. I'm just a tad bit concerned.

Their financials are okay so I'm not worried about them going out of business.

I am very happy with Suite 11, and I am very sad reading about 12. Not just your post, but reading about bugs, soundfonts not working anymore, etc. A new Reason release is always silly season here, and that's normal. Some are happy, others are not. Unpolished. Unfinished. Rushed. I don't remember reading that so often here.

Maybe we need a thread with 100% happy R12 users to balance the perception?

[fieldframe]

I'm not sure why people who bought Suite expected new instruments, but it seems to be a very common misconception. Looking back, they probably should've named it something different.

I think the reason many Suite customers expected new instruments is pretty clear: it’s exactly what Ableton has done for years. You buy a new version of Live Suite, and you get the new premium instruments that are included in the Suite tier. No one outside this forum had any reason to think this would be different.

I don’t think Reason Studios chose the wrong name; they pivoted business models too quickly.

[Billy+]

Listen I totally agree with the centerment it's was a known bug and yes the decent thing would definitely have been to fix it and given the state of V12 I think that RS could have rolled out an 11.4/5 update while getting V12 to let's say January's roadmap level before deployment, they could have made mimic a rack extension and sold it while included CMBv2 in 11 and still have given it all to plus subscribers that all makes sense to me

But they haven't, they aren't going to so why get hung up on it, it's done so let it go as it's pointless sorry but it's the truth and nothing is going to change any of it now or in the future.

The best and only thing that we can do is try the demo before handing over any cash.

[avasopht]

I don’t think Reason Studios chose the wrong name; they pivoted business models too quickly.

It does seem that way, and I think R+ could make more sense as it simplifies the discussion (e.g. what version should a device that is released 3 months before the next version go to?).

[Billy+]

I don’t think Reason Studios chose the wrong name; they pivoted business models too quickly.

It does seem that way, and I think R+ could make more sense as it simplifies the discussion (e.g. what version should a device that is released 3 months before the next version go to?).

Fact is they can release them all as RE's so they can maximise their returns perpetuals can buy and subscription gets them on release day

[KGB]

I don't understand what you're worried about. Are you worried about the companies future? Are you worried about how your friend is perceiving Reason? Both of which are things you should not be worried about IMO.
If Reason Studios was to tank, which I don't think will happen, you will learn a new program if you continue to make music.
You should know how to use more than 1 program on a computer, it's no different with music programs.

[musicman691]

Really, again with this - the fix is the next update which is version 12 now
Software is nothing more than an idea and collection of bug fixes labelled as major upgrade

That's not an appropriate comment to make ‍♂️

Suffice to say, it's been a standard thing in software for decades to supply fixes in the same version until a reasonable period of time after either release or the release of the next version.

Sometimes fixes will be applied to versions that have been unsupported for years if it's a critical or serious security bug.

In this instance, no, it's quite insincere to say "it's been fixed in the next version." Especially given the bug was known about so long ago.

That being said, maybe they will apply the patch to R11. It would send out a very bad message if they did not.

There aren't that many companies that support a past product with updates. Fatal bug fixes - maybe. Take for instance Avid - they are no longer sending out fixes for ProTools 2020. It's all PT 2021 and up.

[avasopht]

That's not an appropriate comment to make ‍♂️

Suffice to say, it's been a standard thing in software for decades to supply fixes in the same version until a reasonable period of time after either release or the release of the next version.

Sometimes fixes will be applied to versions that have been unsupported for years if it's a critical or serious security bug.

In this instance, no, it's quite insincere to say "it's been fixed in the next version." Especially given the bug was known about so long ago.

That being said, maybe they will apply the patch to R11. It would send out a very bad message if they did not.

There aren't that many companies that support a past product with updates. Fatal bug fixes - maybe. Take for instance Avid - they are no longer sending out fixes for ProTools 2020. It's all PT 2021 and up.

Except it wasn't a past product. The bug was known about a long time ago.

They changed the support agreement when R+ was announced, but I'm pretty sure the bug was known about before.

For a bug like that, it's just bad form, especially given when it was known about.

It also sets the stage for R12. Imagine having this same conversation about serious R12 bugs known quite easily on and being stuck with it.

Plus R12 comes with its own baggage bugs wise.

As I understand it now, there's 12 months of support.

[avasopht]

I don't understand what you're worried about. Are you worried about the companies future? Are you worried about how your friend is perceiving Reason? Both of which are things you should not be worried about IMO.
If Reason Studios was to tank, which I don't think will happen, you will learn a new program if you continue to make music.
You should know how to use more than 1 program on a computer, it's no different with music programs.

I'm comfortable with other DAWs.

I'm less worried about it taking and more concerned about how frustrating it will be to use going forward and just whether it's time to let another DAW take centre stage.

I'm in sync with the Reason workflow. I've been using it for so long that I'm very accustomed to it's behaviour and nuances.

While I can and have been productive in other DAWs, I had hoped I could meet it all in the Mighty Rack Master.

I'll still use Reason. For now I think I'll stick to R11 RRP until 12 is cleaned up

[avasopht]

I've just seen the Roadmap. Looks interesting and could completely change my stance.

[fullforce]

When R11 Suite was announced, it was expected that there would be a premium tier going forward. But when RS fell in love with a subscription idea, they knew that having an R12 suite would kill sales for R+. Besides, going forward, there's going to be a far less need for REs. The new combinator and sound packs will deal a severe blow to the RE community. I hate the direction but it is where RS is going.

If you think about it, RS is most likely intending to be bought out by one of the DAW motherships. Apple and the Logic Universe is where RS is headed IMO.

Haha never. Reason never had this much problems on the Apple platform.

[musicman691]

There aren't that many companies that support a past product with updates. Fatal bug fixes - maybe. Take for instance Avid - they are no longer sending out fixes for ProTools 2020. It's all PT 2021 and up.

Except it wasn't a past product. The bug was known about a long time ago.

They changed the support agreement when R+ was announced, but I'm pretty sure the bug was known about before.

For a bug like that, it's just bad form, especially given when it was known about.

It also sets the stage for R12. Imagine having this same conversation about serious R12 bugs known quite easily on and being stuck with it.

Plus R12 comes with its own baggage bugs wise.

As I understand it now, there's 12 months of support.

Thanks for mentioning about the 12 months of support.

[KGB]

I've just seen the Roadmap. Looks interesting and could completely change my stance.

Where is this map of road that you speak of?

[musicman691]

I've just seen the Roadmap. Looks interesting and could completely change my stance.

Where is this map of road that you speak of?

The unwashed masses are not allowed to see that. Actually I think avasopht hasn't seen it.

[avasopht]

I've just seen the Roadmap. Looks interesting and could completely change my stance.

Where is this map of road that you speak of?

North of the North West when the morning sun meets the autumn sea mist.

[fullforce]

I've just seen the Roadmap. Looks interesting and could completely change my stance.

Company I worked for made a new roadmap every year. Never made ONE goal.

[musicman691]

I've just seen the Roadmap. Looks interesting and could completely change my stance.

Company I worked for made a new roadmap every year. Never made ONE goal.

Companies only make roadmaps to satisfy their bankers and shareholders.

[avasopht]

Companies only make roadmaps to satisfy their bankers and shareholders.

Wrong.

Do you have any idea how impossibly difficult it is for 40 programmers, testers and administrators to coordinate the construction of new functionality in an established codebase without a roadmap or idea of where things are going.

Even the work in doing is much more trivial with fewer decision junctures, and we have a near identical looking roadmap

[fieldframe]

Imagine the roadmap as the part of an iceberg above the water.

Below the water are probably at least a dozen epics (the agile development term for a feature or supporting part of a feature) and hundreds of user stories (agile speak for an individually identifiable task that contributes toward defined functionality). Stringing them together may be a cadence of release targets, which may roughly correspond to the roadmap but can be revised as conditions change.

[KGB]

Where is this map of road that you speak of?

North of the North West when the morning sun meets the autumn sea mist.

Much gratitude great squire!

[huggermugger]

It's annoying that they don't clarify what upgrading from R11 Suite to R12 means. You read the list of what's in R12, and of course it includes nothing from the Suite bundle. So, if I upgrade to R12, do I still have my Suite Bundle? Yes, I think so, but Props ain't saying, and their chaotic incremental release of R12/R+ confuses the issue even more. Add to this the many significant bugs being reported and the outcome is one seriously flawed, premature upgrade. No thanks, not for months will I go there.

[QVprod]

It's annoying that they don't clarify what upgrading from R11 Suite to R12 means. You read the list of what's in R12, and of course it includes nothing from the Suite bundle. So, if I upgrade to R12, do I still have my Suite Bundle? Yes, I think so, but Props ain't saying, and their chaotic incremental release of R12/R+ confuses the issue even more. Add to this the many significant bugs being reported and the outcome is one seriously flawed, premature upgrade. No thanks, not for months will I go there.

In no case would an upgrade cause you to lose licenses you own. That wouldn't be much of an upgrade. Suite was just a Reason license with bundled REs. The REs are yours to keep.

[guitfnky]

anything you buy under a perpetual license remains yours. the only way you’ll lose anything is if you get devices you don’t own outright under Reason+. even then you get to keep at least something (sound packs) forever.

[QVprod]

I'm not sure why people who bought Suite expected new instruments, but it seems to be a very common misconception. Looking back, they probably should've named it something different.

I think the reason many Suite customers expected new instruments is pretty clear: it’s exactly what Ableton has done for years. You buy a new version of Live Suite, and you get the new premium instruments that are included in the Suite tier. No one outside this forum had any reason to think this would be different.

I don’t think Reason Studios chose the wrong name; they pivoted business models too quickly.

There's a difference between getting new instruments with a new version you pay for and getting new instruments for free that were added a year after Suite came out. I believe Live does the former. As other's stated, I thought it was clear that it was an as is bundle regardless of whether or not there was a R12 suite. I can agree that it was a weird pivot having only lasted 1 version. I think if it was called something else like the "Reason 11 Re Bundle" or something, the pivot would have went over better.

[kuhliloach]

A Reason 12 license came with my Reason 11 upgrade but I haven't bothered to install it. Garageband/Logic, and the occasional Ableton session do all I need so unless there is some weird circumstance I don't really use it much any more. Nobody I know uses it so using the Rack plug-in in a project is a bad idea unless I freeze before collaboration. With all the comments going on I see a great reason to not use it: sanity.