Reason 13 has arrived: Release Notes

[amanitamix]

Well I purchased Logic Pro BECAUSE of the lack of progress with Reason AND I have been spending less on REs and more on VSTs. chimp_spanner also suggests he is leaning towards Cubase BECAUSE Reason is missing 5 or 6 key features. Adam Fielding also shifted BECAUSE of frustration with missing features or lack of progress.

I no longer mix in Reason, moving to LUNA, for all the reasons above.

Same here. I own most of the UAD plug-ins and enough VSTi's and VSTs to just use LUNA for mixing. Reason 13 should have been an update, not an upgrade.

[Mccauld]

Ok, Ive gotten over my initial concerns about my R12 favourites lists not showing or disappearing, etc. and now getting more comfortable with the new browser. Now I am enjoying R13, and going mad with Ripley . Its great fun And the sidechain tool is great for creative effects fun. I guess it took me a while to adapt to the changes

[selig]

Ok, Ive gotten over my initial concerns about my R12 favourites lists not showing or disappearing, etc. and now getting more comfortable with the new browser. Now I am enjoying R13, and going mad with Ripley . Its great fun And the sidechain tool is great for creative effects fun. I guess it took me a while to adapt to the changes

Same here, there is often a bit of a "Who Moved My Cheese" situation when facing change, even in a DAW.

[ApeRunner]

I have a small request - I'd like the option in the 'Window' menu to hide this bar (in the below image). It's a small thing. But, after close to a quarter of a century of hitting the Tab key to flip the rack. It kind of feels like having a 'Flip Rack' button is the Reason equivalent of having to be told how to breathe in & out!! Likewise with the 'Mixer', 'Rack', and 'Sequencer' buttons - F5, F6 & F7 have had me navigating the Reason windows at close to light speed for as long as I've been flipping the old rack. I need buttons for this like I need another arsehole!! And there's precious screen real estate in that there bar Reason > Window > Hide Beginner Bar

Yes. This is necessary.

[tomusurp]

Ok, Ive gotten over my initial concerns about my R12 favourites lists not showing or disappearing, etc. and now getting more comfortable with the new browser. Now I am enjoying R13, and going mad with Ripley . Its great fun And the sidechain tool is great for creative effects fun. I guess it took me a while to adapt to the changes

Same here, there is often a bit of a "Who Moved My Cheese" situation when facing change, even in a DAW.

Hey Selig, how are you liking r13 so far? Is it worth upgrading?

[mimidancer]

I have a good day job so speaking to the price is not something I will do. To me the price is insignificant. But it is not lost on me that many do not have the means I am afforded.

You seem to be missing the point. I think a lot of people can afford to throw $200 in the trash can and not miss a beat. I have reason 12 and IMHO, there isn't a $200 difference between 12 and 13. The new synth isn't better than anything most long time reason users have by now. I'm sure most people have found a way to do the things the new tools do, a long time ago so there is no added value there for long time users. The new browser isn't useful for people who don't use native reason sounds. I use all VSTs and 3rd party drum kits. I use a few native Reason effects that's about it. I think it's awesome that Reason is adding more of the basic features most other DAWs possess. I will continue to use Reason 12 because it does 90 something percent of what I need it to do. I don't like the idea of being a multi DAW user but I do have another one to use that has more tools to write film scores. Reason can do everything else I need.

I actually didn't miss the point if you look at what you quoted. "But it is not lost on me that many do not have the means I am afforded."

But I skip upgrades to from time to time. Especially on my Arturia v collection and efx collection. I always felt that every other time was a good value. SO I get that. As for what they choose to upgrade I think they are staying on brand. Reason is about its devices and ease of use. If other DAWs would up their devices game people would not use the reason rack plug-in, but that is not what they are about. Every DAW has its own thing. Reason's thing is its devices.

[mimidancer]

I have a small request - I'd like the option in the 'Window' menu to hide this bar (in the below image). It's a small thing. But, after close to a quarter of a century of hitting the Tab key to flip the rack. It kind of feels like having a 'Flip Rack' button is the Reason equivalent of having to be told how to breathe in & out!! Likewise with the 'Mixer', 'Rack', and 'Sequencer' buttons - F5, F6 & F7 have had me navigating the Reason windows at close to light speed for as long as I've been flipping the old rack. I need buttons for this like I need another arsehole!! And there's precious screen real estate in that there bar Reason > Window > Hide Beginner Bar

Yes. This is necessary.

Agree, I am an f key user I do not need to see that bar.

[manisnotabird]

[*]MIDI Clock sent from Reason is now more stable

Anyone have any more elaboration on this change?

[WolfZeit]

F3 stops F5/F6/F7 working. If I click F3 to briefly hide the devices panel, then click it again to bring it back, the devices search box automatically highlights, and that stops F5/F6/F7 from working, and I need to click outside the search box to get those other F buttons working again. (F9 is immune from this) I'm pretty sure R12 is not like that (but can't check it right now due to the current 12/13 bug), is this a bug or a R13 change? Thanks.

This IS a bug. I've been reading the Reason 13 Key Commands PDF. If F3 was meant to set focus to the Text/Search field, why on earth would they also have a separate keyboard command for it?

[Calazzus]

You seem to be missing the point. I think a lot of people can afford to throw $200 in the trash can and not miss a beat. I have reason 12 and IMHO, there isn't a $200 difference between 12 and 13. The new synth isn't better than anything most long time reason users have by now. I'm sure most people have found a way to do the things the new tools do, a long time ago so there is no added value there for long time users. The new browser isn't useful for people who don't use native reason sounds. I use all VSTs and 3rd party drum kits. I use a few native Reason effects that's about it. I think it's awesome that Reason is adding more of the basic features most other DAWs possess. I will continue to use Reason 12 because it does 90 something percent of what I need it to do. I don't like the idea of being a multi DAW user but I do have another one to use that has more tools to write film scores. Reason can do everything else I need.

I actually didn't miss the point if you look at what you quoted. "But it is not lost on me that many do not have the means I am afforded."

But I skip upgrades to from time to time. Especially on my Arturia v collection and efx collection. I always felt that every other time was a good value. SO I get that. As for what they choose to upgrade I think they are staying on brand. Reason is about its devices and ease of use. If other DAWs would up their devices game people would not use the reason rack plug-in, but that is not what they are about. Every DAW has its own thing. Reason's thing is its devices.

Sorry I missed that and agreed, Reason has better stock sounds than most DAWs.

[manoob]

I no longer mix in Reason, moving to LUNA, for all the reasons above.

Same here. I own most of the UAD plug-ins and enough VSTi's and VSTs to just use LUNA for mixing. Reason 13 should have been an update, not an upgrade.

i use fully luna too, got reason as plugin there. best part its free daw . and better sound quality.. 32 bit is better than 24 bit. and i use the summings still a new daw and needs work but really enjoy using it. what i like on it is its ability to keep everything since you start a song under one song file and deactivating channels and free up resources... its sidchaining still needs a little more work on and midi capabilities.. i m waiting to see which daws incorparate ai into their daws for mixing and stuff....instead of new synths they could add ai that could give you tips on mixing like showing you conflicting frq on different channels on a chart to make mixing decisions easier.. many great ways ai could be used in daws....

[selig]

Same here. I own most of the UAD plug-ins and enough VSTi's and VSTs to just use LUNA for mixing. Reason 13 should have been an update, not an upgrade.

i use fully luna too, got reason as plugin there. best part its free daw . and better sound quality.. 32 bit is better than 24 bit. and i use the summings still a new daw and needs work but really enjoy using it. what i like on it is its ability to keep everything since you start a song under one song file and deactivating channels and free up resources... its sidchaining still needs a little more work on and midi capabilities.. i m waiting to see which daws incorparate ai into their daws for mixing and stuff....instead of new synths they could add ai that could give you tips on mixing like showing you conflicting frq on different channels on a chart to make mixing decisions easier.. many great ways ai could be used in daws....

No DAW is 24 bit these days, not sure if that’s what you’re saying here or not…LUNA alone isn’t any better sounding, it’s the tape/summing/plugins combined with an old school (and thus familiar to me) workflow that got me!

I don’t want AI to GUIDE me, I want AI to ASSIST me. No “tips” please, just learn my habits and anticipate my next move and start offering help - like any good assistant would do over time! Would be a game changer for me - I don’t trust AI to hallucinate and give me bad advice, so I don’t anticipate AI being good in the “give me tips” department.
But MAN could I use a little help with the repetitive tasks etc…

[selig]

Same here, there is often a bit of a "Who Moved My Cheese" situation when facing change, even in a DAW.

Hey Selig, how are you liking r13 so far? Is it worth upgrading?

I can’t answer that question for you! But for me, and many others it appears, it’s a case of “who moved my cheese”. That means we are freaking out over something being moved rather than learning where it has been moved to. Someone just posted a rant on FB about how you now have to do stuff like Transpose to one clip at a time! Of course that is totally false, but all the comments failed to realize that and freaked out instead. So if you see “Who moved my cheese” posted, it’s probably me…
That said, I DO totally miss the Browser favorites and hope they restore that functionality as it was before. Otherwise it’s just unfamiliar positioning and naming getting me, like the Device Browser labeled “DEVICES” and the Patch Browser labeled “BROWSER” (they are both browsers). Luckily I can make buttons on my Stream Deck with better names for me and get on with my work.

All to say, I’m slowly creating new muscle memory, and cursing the changes less and less every day!
But I can’t say if it is worth it for YOU or not, but it is worth it to me. FWIW…

[DrRobert]

I have to say that I don't mind the changes too much. I HATE the new browser that obscures the window. When it popped up and blocked my work, I immediately went to move it and it was fixed into the window. Such a terrible design. I would be fine with it if it had the same functionality and was in a side column like it was in R12. I also don't like that reason has started saving stuff in the music folder, since I don't save anything on the internal drive. The browser issue will probably just push me a little farther away from using Reason regularly. The other changes are fine.

[Creativemind]

Gonna subsribe for a month check it out.

Questions if anyone knows, how much memory do I need to download it via the subscription model with Companion as I only have 25.1GB of free memory on my C drive and you can't install it on a different drive can you and will it install a separate version or add to my current version?

[tomusurp]

Hey Selig, how are you liking r13 so far? Is it worth upgrading?

I can’t answer that question for you! But for me, and many others it appears, it’s a case of “who moved my cheese”. That means we are freaking out over something being moved rather than learning where it has been moved to. Someone just posted a rant on FB about how you now have to do stuff like Transpose to one clip at a time! Of course that is totally false, but all the comments failed to realize that and freaked out instead. So if you see “Who moved my cheese” posted, it’s probably me…
That said, I DO totally miss the Browser favorites and hope they restore that functionality as it was before. Otherwise it’s just unfamiliar positioning and naming getting me, like the Device Browser labeled “DEVICES” and the Patch Browser labeled “BROWSER” (they are both browsers). Luckily I can make buttons on my Stream Deck with better names for me and get on with my work.

All to say, I’m slowly creating new muscle memory, and cursing the changes less and less every day!
But I can’t say if it is worth it for YOU or not, but it is worth it to me. FWIW…

Question is, was the cheese moved to a good spot? Putting it far back and hard to reach can be a bad idea lol. Everything else like the integral cores of Reason as we long-time users know are intact I assume? For me I knew right away the browser change was awkward but perhaps could be good for rack visibility. And I'd assume there is a hotkey to easily open and close browser? Of course I'm only speaking from the trailers but it does seem a bit like a forced change to release a new version for a new charge. Even with the few modules it doesn't seem to warrant an upgrade, more like could have been an R12 update. But chimpspanner said that it works even faster and more stable so could be something there, although R12 is a beast for stability and speed still running on my 2019 juiced up gaming laptop with tons of plugins

[Pepin]

Workflow changes are understandable if there's an actual benefit.
So far, I think the new browser is an improvement functionality-wise, so I gain something by acclimating to it. Keyboard control, tags, etc. all add useful functionality that wasn't present before.

However, the new sequencer is different. As an experienced user, I don't think I gain anything from it.
It feels like it's mostly designed to look superficially familiar to users of other software and to surface tool window functionality to users who didn't know about it.

The moment-to-moment workflow in the Edit Area is now very muddled compared to Reason 12, with functionality torn out in a haphazard fashion. We can resize clips and even timestretch them, but we can't move them. We can razor them, but we can't delete them (usually). Are these bugs or intentional behavior? It's hard to even know. It's much harder to adapt to a new workflow when the underlying design principles are so inconsistent.

In a way, it's not different enough from what we had before. I have no issue with similar split views in other DAWs, but their features are tailored to such a setup. The Reason 13 sequencer feels more like a proof of concept or minimum viable product. It feels like the result of whatever minimal codebase changes were necessary to test how a split sequencer might feel, not the result of thoughtful design and iteration.

Maybe others are enjoying the new sequencer workflow? The browser changes seem to have overshadowed the sequencer changes in the discussion around this release.

[tomusurp]

Gonna subsribe for a month check it out.

Questions if anyone knows, how much memory do I need to download it via the subscription model with Companion as I only have 25.1GB of free memory on my C drive and you can't install it on a different drive can you and will it install a separate version or add to my current version?

If I'm not mistaken the built-in hard drive has faster speeds with PCIe or whatever the connection is, so I probably wouldn't run any CPU intensive programs from external but maybe the new laptops like Macbook and etc can handle it with their thunderbolt/usb-c

As for the required memory you need at least 50gb https://help.reasonstudios.com/hc/en-us ... -Reason-13

[tomusurp]

Workflow changes are understandable if there's an actual benefit.
So far, I think the new browser is an improvement functionality-wise, so I gain something by acclimating to it. Keyboard control, tags, etc. all add useful functionality that wasn't present before.

However, the new sequencer is different. As an experienced user, I don't think I gain anything from it.
It feels like it's mostly designed to look superficially familiar to users of other software and to surface tool window functionality to users who didn't know about it.

The moment-to-moment workflow in the Edit Area is now very muddled compared to Reason 12, with functionality torn out in a haphazard fashion. We can resize clips and even timestretch them, but we can't move them. We can razor them, but we can't delete them (usually). Are these bugs or intentional behavior? It's hard to even know. It's much harder to adapt to a new workflow when the underlying design principles are so inconsistent.

In a way, it's not different enough from what we had before. I have no issue with similar split views in other DAWs, but their features are tailored to such a setup. The Reason 13 sequencer feels more like a proof of concept or minimum viable product. It feels like the result of whatever minimal codebase changes were necessary to test how a split sequencer might feel, not the result of thoughtful design and iteration.

Maybe others are enjoying the new sequencer workflow? The browser changes seem to have overshadowed the sequencer changes in the discussion around this release.

I'm still watching videos about R13 on their YT page and I won't be trying R13 for a while because there doesn't seem to be a need but I noticed how similar the browser looks to Logic's browser. Personally I don't care for that type of search function considering I make music by thinking what device I want to play with and then you just go through the device's sounds. I think maybe this type of search style is more useful for sample sellers like Loopcloud and Splice. The thing is the search function for patches already exists anyway, but it seems like now you can audition them first before loading just like in Logic.

But oh man the new sequencer exactly like Logic. IMO not a good idea because the whole point of the piano roll is to open it up and see it well and there's an easy button and click to go back and forth, so what is the point of having full sequencer view directly above it? Ryan says it's to see the sequencer in context. What is that supposed to mean, the whole point of piano roll is to go in there and edit. Glad I watched these tutorials don't see the point of these new features. The whole point Reason is my favorite DAW and I'm also a Logic and FL user is basically the super fast access to produce and mix/master music, especially for my genre of EDM. Their sequencer is amazingly intuitive, sure the piano roll could use some cooler features like FL Studio has but that's besides the point. They decided to complicate their perfectly fine browser and sequencer. They should be improving their current values that makes Reason so great. I'm sure the internal architecture is very good in terms of coding, speed, and stability as that is one of their strengths. But these superficial changes just seem unnecessary

[selig]

But oh man the new sequencer exactly like Logic. IMO not a good idea because the whole point of the piano roll is to open it up and see it well and there's an easy button and click to go back and forth, so what is the point of having full sequencer view directly above it? Ryan says it's to see the sequencer in context.

I would argue unless the bars are lined up the same in both views, it is impossible to see the editor “in context” in it’s current form. I made a request to allow the two to be in sync (an option), just like I’ve made requests to allow the track/channel order in the three main views to stay in sync (also as an option).

One of the handy things about editing notes in the same screen as other tracks is to see their timing RELATIONSHIP. You cannot do that with the current setup, so that’s a missed opportunity right there IMO. Even “version 1” DAWs like LUNA can do this…arrrgg!

[Pepin]

But oh man the new sequencer exactly like Logic. IMO not a good idea because the whole point of the piano roll is to open it up and see it well and there's an easy button and click to go back and forth, so what is the point of having full sequencer view directly above it? Ryan says it's to see the sequencer in context.

I would argue unless the bars are lined up the same in both views, it is impossible to see the editor “in context” in it’s current form. I made a request to allow the two to be in sync (an option), just like I’ve made requests to allow the track/channel order in the three main views to stay in sync (also as an option).

One of the handy things about editing notes in the same screen as other tracks is to see their timing RELATIONSHIP. You cannot do that with the current setup, so that’s a missed opportunity right there IMO. Even “version 1” DAWs like LUNA can do this…arrrgg!

I assume you mean something like this? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7534538
It's common in other DAWs that have a split view, which is part of why the sequencer in its current state feels undercooked to me.

Reason 12 at least had the "top bar" clip view to help orient yourself. Reason 13 is a downgrade in that regard imo.

[tomusurp]

But oh man the new sequencer exactly like Logic. IMO not a good idea because the whole point of the piano roll is to open it up and see it well and there's an easy button and click to go back and forth, so what is the point of having full sequencer view directly above it? Ryan says it's to see the sequencer in context.

I would argue unless the bars are lined up the same in both views, it is impossible to see the editor “in context” in it’s current form. I made a request to allow the two to be in sync (an option), just like I’ve made requests to allow the track/channel order in the three main views to stay in sync (also as an option).

One of the handy things about editing notes in the same screen as other tracks is to see their timing RELATIONSHIP. You cannot do that with the current setup, so that’s a missed opportunity right there IMO. Even “version 1” DAWs like LUNA can do this…arrrgg!

My point is why would you need to see the sequencer when you're in piano roll? The whole point of the piano roll is to get completely into it for editing freely and easy on the eyes. Now in the split view you are adjusting the split windows. I'm thinking they did this so you can go from clip to clip without clicking edit mode again and going back to sequencer. I get that but I don't find it necessary since a single click is already fast and it looks clunky this way. In regular Reason I LOVE the space for sequencer organization and piano roll editing. It's like a breath of fresh air. It's visually friendly which is a huge plus for editing since we look at these programs every day. That's just my preference, which is why I make most songs in Reason, sometimes FL. Logic is great too but, they're all great, but again comfortabilily of an interface is a big thing for me.

[Faastwalker]

For all intents and purposes, it's basically just an accessibility feature the way it works now

That’s how it’s always been explained IIRC. At least at one point they said separate Rack Zoom was on the list, and was always considered to be a separate feature.

I hope so. Rack zoom is really all that was needed, unless the intention was for this to be an accessibility feature. I'm sure we'd all love to see and use those gorgeous hi-res devices at 200%!!! We definitely DO NOT need everything else coming along for the ride in the 200% zoom balloon!! You lose half your screen real estate across the board. It's ridiculous!

What I'd really love, although I acknowledge this is probably pie in the sky stuff, is if you could zoom to rack device. So, CTRL+click+zoom button blows up your device to your specified 'Rack Zoom' setting. Everything else stays in place CTRL+click+zoom button again, or maybe 'Esc' key, and the device snaps back into the rack at your default zoom level.

[SoundObjects]

Using v13 browser indexing random seems to use some CPU (20-30%)
and leaving less CPU for VST etc.
Sometimes even when browser window is closed and no search operation ?

[WolfZeit]

F3 stops F5/F6/F7 working. If I click F3 to briefly hide the devices panel, then click it again to bring it back, the devices search box automatically highlights, and that stops F5/F6/F7 from working, and I need to click outside the search box to get those other F buttons working again. (F9 is immune from this)

This IS a bug. I've been reading the Reason 13 Key Commands PDF. If F3 was meant to set focus to the Text/Search field, why on earth would they also have a separate keyboard command for it?

Got a reply from Reason Support saying that this seems to be a bug with the Windows version of 13. They say it should be possible to use the other F keys even when the Device Panel has focus in the Search box. Support have raised a bug report about it. Let's hope when they're fixing that bug they reinstate F3 only showing device palette, and not grabbing keyboard focus.