Fighting with Reason

[8cros]

Why did you do it?
Your examples

I do not see any sense in your questions.
Everyone can watch the video. Your examples of a conscious attempt to enter other people astray.

And of course you're not a Fighting with Reason, because you're lying.

Lying? What about? Using Reason? The example I last posted is using Reason drums, Reason pianos, Reason basses, and Soundcell's Bitbumper, (plus a factory shaker). If you had those refills you'd recognize the sounds.

Did anyone null test the last example I posted btw?

I have tested your files.

And?

And I said everything. Read on and see.

[Riverman]

Don't know where the post went.. . but here, i took time out of the day to compose a "test"

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/976 ... Reason.aif

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/976 ... oTools.aif

There you go, no plugins on the ProTools import, no master bus processing in either.

But that's not replicating my process. I do not work like that, so that's not helping me at all.

But I'm sure you can pat yourself on the back and say "see there's nothing wrong with Reason" even though I never said there was.

PS. and also the mixed aiff in Reason sounds different to the working sound as I'm mixing. The mixdown has softened and fattened the snare in the upper midrange. Consequently the ProTools stem is also fatter.
But of course, I can't play you the session to AB can I? There's only a stereo mix to listen to, which isn't the same thing.

I'd rather just show and I will not comment on it. In order not to spoil the transfer.

I do not understand this test . I thought only two files were needed , one from Reason and one from Pro Tools . Are all these files necessary ?

You did not understand?

It is only 2 files. There's a part of the mix sounds PT invert the phase. And louder by more than 9 dB.

I have no understanding of what's going on in the video. I don't speak and Slavic languages and don't understand what you're doing in any case.

[selig]

Why did you do it?
Your examples

I do not see any sense in your questions.
Everyone can watch the video. Your examples of a conscious attempt to enter other people astray.

And of course you're not a Fighting with Reason, because you're lying.

Lying? What about? Using Reason? The example I last posted is using Reason drums, Reason pianos, Reason basses, and Soundcell's Bitbumper, (plus a factory shaker). If you had those refills you'd recognize the sounds.

Did anyone null test the last example I posted btw?

Sorry Riverman, I was about to chastise 8cros for this - could be a language issue or just being rude. Either way, it's out of line here and another reason to wind down this thread.

As for your test, it's different than any other PT/Reason test I've seen - ask drloop about doing a null test because his results are very different than yours. There is hardly ANY null between your two files - I get a difference file peaking at -8dBFS and your files peak at -2dBFS, showing only a 6 dB difference in the null file!

What I hear when I null your files is VERY similar to what I hear when I take one of them and invert the left channel and sum it with the right (a "side" or "difference" file). In other words, the center elements tend to disappear when you null your two files, which indicates something is still not quite right with your testing.

Maybe something has changed in the recent version of PT (or Reason), but your test is definitely an outlier from everything I've heard. I'll say again, these tests are more difficult to do correctly than many assume… I know you really don't care [EDIT: I mean you just want to make music, not do "science"], and that's OK with me, but I'd LOVE to see what you are actually doing to get these results.

But just to be sure: Drloop, can you confirm your PT/Reason null test showed a null greater than 6 dB?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Riverman]

Why did you do it?
Your examples

I do not see any sense in your questions.
Everyone can watch the video. Your examples of a conscious attempt to enter other people astray.

And of course you're not a Fighting with Reason, because you're lying.

Lying? What about? Using Reason? The example I last posted is using Reason drums, Reason pianos, Reason basses, and Soundcell's Bitbumper, (plus a factory shaker). If you had those refills you'd recognize the sounds.

Did anyone null test the last example I posted btw?

I have tested your files.

And?

And I said everything. Read on and see.

? You're not making much sense bro...
1. Did you test the files?
2. Did you get silence?
3. Why are you accusing me of lying?? What do you think I am I lying about? Why on earth would I?

[Riverman]

Why did you do it?
Your examples

I do not see any sense in your questions.
Everyone can watch the video. Your examples of a conscious attempt to enter other people astray.

And of course you're not a Fighting with Reason, because you're lying.

Lying? What about? Using Reason? The example I last posted is using Reason drums, Reason pianos, Reason basses, and Soundcell's Bitbumper, (plus a factory shaker). If you had those refills you'd recognize the sounds.

Did anyone null test the last example I posted btw?

Sorry Riverman, I was about to chastise 8cros for this - could be a language issue or just being rude. Either way, it's out of line here and another reason to wind down this thread.

As for your test, it's different than any other PT/Reason test I've seen - ask drloop about doing a null test because his results are very different than yours. There is hardly ANY null between your two files - I get a difference file peaking at -8dBFS and your files peak at -2dBFS, showing only a 6 dB difference in the null file!

What I hear when I null your files is VERY similar to what I hear when I take one of them and invert the left channel and sum it with the right (a "side" or "difference" file). In other words, the center elements tend to disappear when you null your two files, which indicates something is still not quite right with your testing.

Maybe something has changed in the recent version of PT (or Reason), but your test is definitely an outlier from everything I've heard. I'll say again, these tests are more difficult to do correctly than many assume… I know you really don't care, and that's OK with me, but I'd LOVE to see what you are actually doing to get these results.

But just to be sure: Drloop, can you confirm your PT/Reason null test showed a null greater than 6 dB?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is what I did:

I composed the track in Reason, without adding master bus compression, and leaving the default master chain blank.
I can upload the session if you want?

I then bounced out the stems.
I imported the stems into Pro Tools.
Without touching faders or doing anything, I then exported to aiff.

How else am I supposed to test? This is the process I was describing, albeit that I normally have master bus compression and master chain compression/eq going on. (Which I did not for this test)

[Riverman]

Selig, if you want to try and load the Reason 6.5 session, go for it.

Refills are Reason Drums, Reason Pianos, Reason Bass and Soundcell's Bitbumper - https://www.dropbox.com/s/6i2fa1anum5hw ... eason?dl=0

[8cros]

Don't know where the post went.. . but here, i took time out of the day to compose a "test"

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/976 ... Reason.aif

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/976 ... oTools.aif

There you go, no plugins on the ProTools import, no master bus processing in either.

But that's not replicating my process. I do not work like that, so that's not helping me at all.

But I'm sure you can pat yourself on the back and say "see there's nothing wrong with Reason" even though I never said there was.

PS. and also the mixed aiff in Reason sounds different to the working sound as I'm mixing. The mixdown has softened and fattened the snare in the upper midrange. Consequently the ProTools stem is also fatter.
But of course, I can't play you the session to AB can I? There's only a stereo mix to listen to, which isn't the same thing.

I'd rather just show and I will not comment on it. In order not to spoil the transfer.

I do not understand this test . I thought only two files were needed , one from Reason and one from Pro Tools . Are all these files necessary ?

You did not understand?

It is only 2 files. There's a part of the mix sounds PT invert the phase. And louder by more than 9 dB.

I have no understanding of what's going on in the video. I don't speak and Slavic languages and don't understand what you're doing in any case.

There's all only yours.
One day you all will understand.

If I start the detailed description, it will take two days of talks.
I do not want to spend it on your sophistries.

[Kenni]

Friendly reminder: Keep it civil.

[Riverman]

Don't know where the post went.. . but here, i took time out of the day to compose a "test"

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/976 ... Reason.aif

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/976 ... oTools.aif

There you go, no plugins on the ProTools import, no master bus processing in either.

But that's not replicating my process. I do not work like that, so that's not helping me at all.

But I'm sure you can pat yourself on the back and say "see there's nothing wrong with Reason" even though I never said there was.

PS. and also the mixed aiff in Reason sounds different to the working sound as I'm mixing. The mixdown has softened and fattened the snare in the upper midrange. Consequently the ProTools stem is also fatter.
But of course, I can't play you the session to AB can I? There's only a stereo mix to listen to, which isn't the same thing.

I'd rather just show and I will not comment on it. In order not to spoil the transfer.

I do not understand this test . I thought only two files were needed , one from Reason and one from Pro Tools . Are all these files necessary ?

You did not understand?

It is only 2 files. There's a part of the mix sounds PT invert the phase. And louder by more than 9 dB.

I have no understanding of what's going on in the video. I don't speak and Slavic languages and don't understand what you're doing in any case.

There's all only yours.
One day you all will understand.

If I start the detailed description, it will take two days of talks.
I do not want to spend it on your sophistries.

What do you mean "there's all only yours"?

[selig]

Why did you do it?
Your examples

I do not see any sense in your questions.
Everyone can watch the video. Your examples of a conscious attempt to enter other people astray.

And of course you're not a Fighting with Reason, because you're lying.

Lying? What about? Using Reason? The example I last posted is using Reason drums, Reason pianos, Reason basses, and Soundcell's Bitbumper, (plus a factory shaker). If you had those refills you'd recognize the sounds.

Did anyone null test the last example I posted btw?

Sorry Riverman, I was about to chastise 8cros for this - could be a language issue or just being rude. Either way, it's out of line here and another reason to wind down this thread.

As for your test, it's different than any other PT/Reason test I've seen - ask drloop about doing a null test because his results are very different than yours. There is hardly ANY null between your two files - I get a difference file peaking at -8dBFS and your files peak at -2dBFS, showing only a 6 dB difference in the null file!

What I hear when I null your files is VERY similar to what I hear when I take one of them and invert the left channel and sum it with the right (a "side" or "difference" file). In other words, the center elements tend to disappear when you null your two files, which indicates something is still not quite right with your testing.

Maybe something has changed in the recent version of PT (or Reason), but your test is definitely an outlier from everything I've heard. I'll say again, these tests are more difficult to do correctly than many assume… I know you really don't care, and that's OK with me, but I'd LOVE to see what you are actually doing to get these results.

But just to be sure: Drloop, can you confirm your PT/Reason null test showed a null greater than 6 dB?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is what I did:

I composed the track in Reason, without adding master bus compression, and leaving the default master chain blank.
I can upload the session if you want?

I then bounced out the stems.
I imported the stems into Pro Tools.
Without touching faders or doing anything, I then exported to aiff.

How else am I supposed to test? This is the process I was describing, albeit that I normally have master bus compression and master chain compression/eq going on. (Which I did not for this test)

This is an incomplete description - you ended up with two stereo files, but you didn't describe creating two stereo files: only stems and one export from PT.

Where did the Reason file come from? If you used any reverbs or other FX there could be a random element involved which would possibly explain the difference I'm seeing.

Best way to test is to do EXACTLY the same thing to generate both files. This means you generate the stems as step one. THEN, for step two you must import those stems into both apps, then export. It would appear you only imported your stems into PT, and you didn't do the SAME (the key) in Reason.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Logismos]

Did anyone null test the last example I posted btw?

I will take a quick look for you- some people here do not really seem to be helping much.,and do not test correctly(not saying I do,but I trust my findings,because they are repeatable by anybody else)

Are you sure the 2 files are both totally clean/flat and no faders touched? bounced,or exported from masterbus? Be certain please.
None of this is science apart from the 'fact' science is an adventure of discovery-nothing more,nothing less. =)
Brb.

[8cros]

What do you mean "there's all only yours"?

1. DAWTest-ProTools.aif

2. DAWTest-Reason.aif
It's all there in the video. You attentive at all?

[Riverman]

Why did you do it?
Your examples

I do not see any sense in your questions.
Everyone can watch the video. Your examples of a conscious attempt to enter other people astray.

And of course you're not a Fighting with Reason, because you're lying.

Lying? What about? Using Reason? The example I last posted is using Reason drums, Reason pianos, Reason basses, and Soundcell's Bitbumper, (plus a factory shaker). If you had those refills you'd recognize the sounds.

Did anyone null test the last example I posted btw?

Sorry Riverman, I was about to chastise 8cros for this - could be a language issue or just being rude. Either way, it's out of line here and another reason to wind down this thread.

As for your test, it's different than any other PT/Reason test I've seen - ask drloop about doing a null test because his results are very different than yours. There is hardly ANY null between your two files - I get a difference file peaking at -8dBFS and your files peak at -2dBFS, showing only a 6 dB difference in the null file!

What I hear when I null your files is VERY similar to what I hear when I take one of them and invert the left channel and sum it with the right (a "side" or "difference" file). In other words, the center elements tend to disappear when you null your two files, which indicates something is still not quite right with your testing.

Maybe something has changed in the recent version of PT (or Reason), but your test is definitely an outlier from everything I've heard. I'll say again, these tests are more difficult to do correctly than many assume… I know you really don't care, and that's OK with me, but I'd LOVE to see what you are actually doing to get these results.

But just to be sure: Drloop, can you confirm your PT/Reason null test showed a null greater than 6 dB?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is what I did:

I composed the track in Reason, without adding master bus compression, and leaving the default master chain blank.
I can upload the session if you want?

I then bounced out the stems.
I imported the stems into Pro Tools.
Without touching faders or doing anything, I then exported to aiff.

How else am I supposed to test? This is the process I was describing, albeit that I normally have master bus compression and master chain compression/eq going on. (Which I did not for this test)

This is an incomplete description - you ended up with two stereo files, but you didn't describe creating two stereo files: only stems and one export from PT.

Where did the Reason file come from? If you used any reverbs or other FX there could be a random element involved which would possibly explain the difference I'm seeing.

Best way to test is to do EXACTLY the same thing to generate both files. This means you generate the stems as step one. THEN, for step two you must import those stems into both apps, then export. It would appear you only imported your stems into PT, and you didn't do the SAME (the key) in Reason.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The Reason aif was what I exported just before bouncing the stems. To show you what I was hearing in Reason.
The ProTools aif is what I exported from ProTools to show what I was listening to post stem import.

Importing the stems back into Reason isn't really the point, because my issue is how I'm struggling with the mix in Reason. It's not just how it's handling audio stems imported from somewhere else but how it's managing the soft synths, hyper samples, audio tracks etc. When I bounce stems and import into Tools it sounds different, as per the example. Subtle, but different.

Is there something going on in files being exported? Consolidating or compressing the info or something?

[Riverman]

Did anyone null test the last example I posted btw?

I will take a quick look for you- some people here do not really seem to be helping much.,and do not test correctly(not saying I do,but I trust my findings,because they are repeatable by anybody else)

Are you sure the 2 files are both totally clean/flat and no faders touched? bounced,or exported from masterbus? Be certain please.
None of this is science apart from the 'fact' science is an adventure of discovery-nothing more,nothing less. =)
Brb.

No master bus effects in either.
But ProTools is bounced from imported stems.'
Reason is generating the sounds from the samplers and amp sim etc. on each track.

[Riverman]

What do you mean "there's all only yours"?

1. DAWTest-ProTools.aif

2. DAWTest-Reason.aif
It's all there in the video. You attentive at all?

I don't speak Polish man. I have no idea what you were doing. And I'm on an iPhone, I can't see what you're doing either. I'm just hearing my track very soft, and you speaking in Polish.

[selig]

Without adding a single plugin or touching the faders, it all just sounds so much better balanced and together.
Why?
It's so bizarre and it's without fail.

The purpose of a null test is to separate the hard data from the possible audio 'deceptions'.
If you have imported like 10stems into reason and not touched a single fader or plugin/rack unit then in theory they should be identical on playback to protools.
Maybe close your eyes 1st,and then listen,because even visual elements can cause a distortion in perception.
When I 1st started using reason,I had similar thoughts about the internal sound and exporting-but I just use it,and can get a competitive mix from it,just as well as anything else I use now.
I think some others just like to beat this topic up and those that start them.
If there is no hard data to compare then this is why others may say "it's all in your head" type of comments... sigh.

You just made an "it's all in you head" type comment above, then appear to criticize others for their "it's all in your head" type comments. Maybe it's time to wind down or even close this thread?

To review:
The OP stated he heard a difference between Reason and PT when nothing at all was done, others provided evidence to the contrary and pointed out where his original comparison was flawed. Now we have folks calling each other liars.

I believe everyone has enough evidence to make up their own minds. If anyone has anything more to offer on topic and on a positive note, say it now. Otherwise I feel we should all agree to disagree.

BTW, the answer to my question: "What can you tell me about the original files" is (in an absolute way) "NOTHING". In a more specific way all you can know is that there is "some" difference in timing, level, EQ/phase, distortion, FX, etc. You can't even draw reliable conclusions from the level of the resultant audio after a null test - if it's caused by a delay then how much delay will create how much level resulting from a null test?

In the test in question you may be able to narrow it down to an EQ/phase, delay, or any tonal change. And that's my point: Drawing any conclusion from a null test is fraught with problems.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Why are you persisting with this straw man?
Are you even trying to understand what I've been saying?
You're arguing against a position I never had.
You're speaking past me and ignoring my repeated attempts to correct a misunderstanding.
Why?

Please clarify.
I'm trying to calm things and clarify your original point: "Without adding a single plugin or touching the faders, it all just sounds so much better balanced and together.
Why?"

Apologies if I'm missing something, but my job as moderator is to try to keep things on track based on the OP's (you, in this case) original questions.

[Riverman]

Maybe the solution just as simple as this: committing each part to audio and mixing them as audio files rather than driving them live from midi...
But then I need to be able to customize tracks to satisfy client revisions... Hmmm.

[8cros]

When I bounce stems and import into Tools it sounds different, as per the example. Subtle, but different.

What do you mean "there's all only yours"?

1. DAWTest-ProTools.aif

2. DAWTest-Reason.aif
It's all there in the video. You attentive at all?

I don't speak Polish man. I have no idea what you were doing. And I'm on an iPhone, I can't see what you're doing either. I'm just hearing my track very soft, and you speaking in Polish.

1 This makes only a person. Those. you.

2 (I'm not saying... there is a Starcraft) watched the game while working on your files

[Riverman]

Without adding a single plugin or touching the faders, it all just sounds so much better balanced and together.
Why?
It's so bizarre and it's without fail.

The purpose of a null test is to separate the hard data from the possible audio 'deceptions'.
If you have imported like 10stems into reason and not touched a single fader or plugin/rack unit then in theory they should be identical on playback to protools.
Maybe close your eyes 1st,and then listen,because even visual elements can cause a distortion in perception.
When I 1st started using reason,I had similar thoughts about the internal sound and exporting-but I just use it,and can get a competitive mix from it,just as well as anything else I use now.
I think some others just like to beat this topic up and those that start them.
If there is no hard data to compare then this is why others may say "it's all in your head" type of comments... sigh.

You just made an "it's all in you head" type comment above, then appear to criticize others for their "it's all in your head" type comments. Maybe it's time to wind down or even close this thread?

To review:
The OP stated he heard a difference between Reason and PT when nothing at all was done, others provided evidence to the contrary and pointed out where his original comparison was flawed. Now we have folks calling each other liars.

I believe everyone has enough evidence to make up their own minds. If anyone has anything more to offer on topic and on a positive note, say it now. Otherwise I feel we should all agree to disagree.

BTW, the answer to my question: "What can you tell me about the original files" is (in an absolute way) "NOTHING". In a more specific way all you can know is that there is "some" difference in timing, level, EQ/phase, distortion, FX, etc. You can't even draw reliable conclusions from the level of the resultant audio after a null test - if it's caused by a delay then how much delay will create how much level resulting from a null test?

In the test in question you may be able to narrow it down to an EQ/phase, delay, or any tonal change. And that's my point: Drawing any conclusion from a null test is fraught with problems.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Why are you persisting with this straw man?
Are you even trying to understand what I've been saying?
You're arguing against a position I never had.
You're speaking past me and ignoring my repeated attempts to correct a misunderstanding.
Why?

Please clarify.
I'm trying to calm things and clarify your original point: "Without adding a single plugin or touching the faders, it all just sounds so much better balanced and together.
Why?"

Apologies if I'm missing something, but my job as moderator is to try to keep things on track based on the OP's (you, in this case) original questions.

As said I'm guessing something is going on when the tracks are being bounced down. It's an issue of it sounding better when each track is audio rather than being triggered live.
I might try importing the stems into Reason rather than Pro Tools and seeing if that has the same "ahhhh" effect next time.

[selig]

Did anyone null test the last example I posted btw?

I will take a quick look for you- some people here do not really seem to be helping much.,and do not test correctly(not saying I do,but I trust my findings,because they are repeatable by anybody else)

Are you sure the 2 files are both totally clean/flat and no faders touched? bounced,or exported from masterbus? Be certain please.
None of this is science apart from the 'fact' science is an adventure of discovery-nothing more,nothing less. =)
Brb.

No master bus effects in either.
But ProTools is bounced from imported stems.'
Reason is generating the sounds from the samplers and amp sim etc. on each track.

And therein lies your problem. Again, it's not as easy to understand how to do these tests properly as folks think. I keep saying that because folks keep messing up the tests and drawing inaccurate conclusions. If you want dependable answers, follow the protocols I outlined previously.

That is to say you must do EXACTLY THE SAME THING when generating your stereo output files. You did two DIFFERENT things - you didn't use the same source files (stems) for BOTH tests. Why does this matter? Because if you don't you're not comparing apples to apples. As I previously mentioned, ANY random or semi random process will skew the results, such as a free LFO, a reverb, a delay with modulation that's based on a free sync LFO, etc.

By starting with the SAME EXACT audio stems in both cases you ensure a more accurate comparison. You are removing ALL of the variables EXCEPT the ones you wish to compare. It's also important to NOT use dither for any of these tests, as dither can also be "random" and skew the results.

I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but these details are not "optional" when doing a null test. If we are going to do this, lets do it right - that's all I'm saying!

[Riverman]

When I bounce stems and import into Tools it sounds different, as per the example. Subtle, but different.

What do you mean "there's all only yours"?

1. DAWTest-ProTools.aif

2. DAWTest-Reason.aif
It's all there in the video. You attentive at all?

I don't speak Polish man. I have no idea what you were doing. And I'm on an iPhone, I can't see what you're doing either. I'm just hearing my track very soft, and you speaking in Polish.

1 This makes the person. Those. you.

2 (I'm not saying there is a broadcast Starcraft)

A broadcast Starcraft...?
Something is getting lost in translation here... Help? Anyone?

[selig]

Maybe the solution just as simple as this: committing each part to audio and mixing them as audio files rather than driving them live from midi...
But then I need to be able to customize tracks to satisfy client revisions... Hmmm.

ONLY when considering a null test. Otherwise you won't necessarily hear the difference, unless you're talking about a big phaser/flanger sweep that needs to start/end at the same place every time, etc.

[selig]

Without adding a single plugin or touching the faders, it all just sounds so much better balanced and together.
Why?
It's so bizarre and it's without fail.

The purpose of a null test is to separate the hard data from the possible audio 'deceptions'.
If you have imported like 10stems into reason and not touched a single fader or plugin/rack unit then in theory they should be identical on playback to protools.
Maybe close your eyes 1st,and then listen,because even visual elements can cause a distortion in perception.
When I 1st started using reason,I had similar thoughts about the internal sound and exporting-but I just use it,and can get a competitive mix from it,just as well as anything else I use now.
I think some others just like to beat this topic up and those that start them.
If there is no hard data to compare then this is why others may say "it's all in your head" type of comments... sigh.

You just made an "it's all in you head" type comment above, then appear to criticize others for their "it's all in your head" type comments. Maybe it's time to wind down or even close this thread?

To review:
The OP stated he heard a difference between Reason and PT when nothing at all was done, others provided evidence to the contrary and pointed out where his original comparison was flawed. Now we have folks calling each other liars.

I believe everyone has enough evidence to make up their own minds. If anyone has anything more to offer on topic and on a positive note, say it now. Otherwise I feel we should all agree to disagree.

BTW, the answer to my question: "What can you tell me about the original files" is (in an absolute way) "NOTHING". In a more specific way all you can know is that there is "some" difference in timing, level, EQ/phase, distortion, FX, etc. You can't even draw reliable conclusions from the level of the resultant audio after a null test - if it's caused by a delay then how much delay will create how much level resulting from a null test?

In the test in question you may be able to narrow it down to an EQ/phase, delay, or any tonal change. And that's my point: Drawing any conclusion from a null test is fraught with problems.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Why are you persisting with this straw man?
Are you even trying to understand what I've been saying?
You're arguing against a position I never had.
You're speaking past me and ignoring my repeated attempts to correct a misunderstanding.
Why?

Please clarify.
I'm trying to calm things and clarify your original point: "Without adding a single plugin or touching the faders, it all just sounds so much better balanced and together.
Why?"

Apologies if I'm missing something, but my job as moderator is to try to keep things on track based on the OP's (you, in this case) original questions.

As said I'm guessing something is going on when the tracks are being bounced down. It's an issue of it sounding better when each track is audio rather than being triggered live.
I might try importing the stems into Reason rather than Pro Tools and seeing if that has the same "ahhhh" effect next time.

Unless you want to test this theory, I'd say leave it and just do what you do. You prefer mixing in Pro Tools, so why not mix in Pro Tools and be done with it! The only thing happening when bouncing to audio is any FX are "frozen" and will be exactly the same each time.

Again, if you prefer exporting from Reason and mixing in Pro Tools, then JUST DO IT!

But if you want to "science" and find the "why", you'll have to learn a few techniques first.

[Riverman]

Did anyone null test the last example I posted btw?

I will take a quick look for you- some people here do not really seem to be helping much.,and do not test correctly(not saying I do,but I trust my findings,because they are repeatable by anybody else)

Are you sure the 2 files are both totally clean/flat and no faders touched? bounced,or exported from masterbus? Be certain please.
None of this is science apart from the 'fact' science is an adventure of discovery-nothing more,nothing less. =)
Brb.

No master bus effects in either.
But ProTools is bounced from imported stems.'
Reason is generating the sounds from the samplers and amp sim etc. on each track.

And therein lies your problem. Again, it's not as easy to understand how to do these tests properly as folks think. I keep saying that because folks keep messing up the tests and drawing inaccurate conclusions. If you want dependable answers, follow the protocols I outlined previously.

That is to say you must do EXACTLY THE SAME THING when generating your stereo output files. You did two DIFFERENT things - you didn't use the same source files (stems) for BOTH tests. Why does this matter? Because if you don't you're not comparing apples to apples. As I previously mentioned, ANY random or semi random process will skew the results, such as a free LFO, a reverb, a delay with modulation that's based on a free sync LFO, etc.

By starting with the SAME EXACT audio stems in both cases you ensure a more accurate comparison. You are removing ALL of the variables EXCEPT the ones you wish to compare. It's also important to NOT use dither for any of these tests, as dither can also be "random" and skew the results.

I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but these details are not "optional" when doing a null test. If we are going to do this, lets do it right - that's all I'm saying!

Selig, I appreciate your patience and persistence, but you do keep misunderstanding what solution I've been seeking.
You've inadvertently helped me, but you keep missing the point here. My point was never to prove that Reason handles audio differently or not, but to understand why a snare sound will sound better to my ears, when imported into Pro Tools, rather than in my Reason mix.
I have the suspected answer, which is because the bounce to audio is coloring the file nicely. The stem is sounding better to me than the hypersamples being triggered. The stem responds differently to eq, compression and master bus processing, than the modules are.
Or so it seems. I'll check it out in the morning.
Thanks bro.

[EnochLight]

Just a silly question for the OP, but are you doing this at the same sample and bit rate in both PT and Reason? When you export, are you selecting the dithering option in Reason or leaving it off? Are you exporting at the same sample and bit rate? Not sure this would affect anything, but just a thought...