Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[DecafDreams]

Users feeling abandoned such as suite users..

What do you mean? Suite is discontinued which only means it isn't for sale on the Reason Studios site. Other customers can still purchase it from other retailers while they have the stock. Suite users do not lose anything.

They should never have used the name Suite. It makes people think of Ableton Live Suite which is a proper tier of product that stays between major versions.

Reason Suite was essentially a rig of discounted REs that came with a standard Reason license but it sounded like it should be more than that because of the aforementioned industry standard naming convention.

[Threpus]

Hey, I'm Jaëxx. I wrote an article on jaexx.com reviewing Reason+.

In it, I clarify some misconceptions about Reason+ sound packs (particularly why including ID8's in Combinators within the sound packs is a good thing). I also touched base on Reason+'s impact to third party rack extension developers. And I came up with a value distribution of the three tenants of Reason+

Hey, I'm sprinkles. I use the word tenants when i mean to say tenets because that's just what people do on the internet! Cos LMAO ROFL WTF LOL.


Anybody know a word for people who spend money every month on something they will never own?

Tenants! Yes. Hilarious.

I think Reason are hoping they get more than three tenants in their refurbished housing complex though...

Hey, you're sprinkles_. You pick on people because you lack self-esteem. Not that I blame you- I don't think much of you, either. What a jerk.

[EdwardKiy]

I think Reason are hoping they get more than three tenants in their refurbished housing complex though...

Yeah, it comes with a nice red shiny kettle. And as long as you're paying rent, you can take the kettle to your other house that you own if you don't like the grey 'ol kettle that house comes with.

Joking aside, if RS admit that it is conceivable that what the users have been asking for 5 years might in fact be what they should do, than that house is going to be the absolute best.
Because it's not just the kettle, admit it. It's the carpets, the paintings, the always reliable oaken Great Stairs, the secret shortcuts; it's the view, the smell and the neighborhood. It also has the attic lab where you spend hours, the stables for your finest stallions, a menagerie and even a handy basement torture chamber.

RS, listen to us: there's rats in the kitchen and the plumbing repairs are long overdue.

[electrofux]

Also most competitors have remote controllers tightly connected to the DAW. In Reason you probably get the best Device remotability on the market if you put in effort but a very limited DAW remotablitiy - heck you cant even switch between Sequencer, Mixer and Rack view from a controller.

sorry if this is a bit off-topic, and I've already stated my view earlier on the 'update' and how it was handled. But you can switch between Sequencer, mixer and rack from a midi controller. Don't know about the others, but a nektar t6 can.

Reason only switches those views with keyboard commands which are not part of the current Remote Implementation. Nektar has this huge piece of software which probably emulates keystrokes but it is not inbuilt inot Reason as a standard. But that is just one example where Reason neglects its own technology once it has been put out. Since Remote is out i have seen exactly one occasion when they added something to it over the last years and that was when they added remote items for ReDrums steps (for which i have begged for years). But that was it, it hasnt been updated since years and the list is pretty long in the Remote Forum.

[sprinkles__]

Hey, you're sprinkles_. You pick on people because you lack self-esteem. Not that I blame you- I don't think much of you, either. What a jerk.

Don't blame me, it's one of my main tenets.

[sprinkles__]

Don't blame me, it's one of my main tenets.

Sorry, i meant tenants. Forgot i was writing on the internet there...

[Melody303]

and even a handy basement torture chamber.

My favorite section.

[moneykube]

and even a handy basement torture chamber.

My favorite section.

hmmmmm I had wondered about that from your profile picture
at any rate this new approach has been nothing but torture... so... I guess it all makes sense
Just what are the facts?... song one in my playlist signature takes on new meanings every day.

[certifiedbeatz]

Users feeling abandoned such as suite users..

What do you mean? Suite is discontinued which only means it isn't for sale on the Reason Studios site. Other customers can still purchase it from other retailers while they have the stock. Suite users do not lose anything.

Meaning we get nothing except a few new instruments witch we can purchase for a few hundred nothing for us life's..

[miscend]

To what specifically?

Users feeling abandoned such as suite users..

Sometimes how people feel is wrong. With the way certain individuals in the community behaved recently I'm sure Ernst is glad he bailed. That sort of behaviour is partly what led to PUF getting shut.

If you remember the Reason 6 update. They built what they genuinely thought was a great update but there was anger from the community when it got announced. So they ended up offering a Pay What You Want upgrade with a minimum $1 payment to appease certain sections of the user base. We have parts of the community that feel entitled and that react angrily when they don't get what they want. At this point Reason Studios probably feel they can't work on the things they genuinely feel are cool within the team without getting some weird reactions.

[MuttReason]

The post below ended up in a RRP thread, but I think it might fit better here, because it deals with the future of Reason as a DAW;

Disclaimer - I am not a marketing person, and I am probably horrifically out of touch!
But I feel like RS are half-assing two things, instead of whole-assing one thing.

Reason is a...plug-in? a VSTi? a DAW?

This leads to some very mixed messages. Why not clearly divide the Rack Plugin from the DAW for marketing purposes.

Just an example -

Reason Rack Plugin $199 or 10$/mo - no DAW features.
>Advertise directly to Live, Cubase, and FL users
>The competition is Omnisphere / Komplete
>Strong point, Reason is cheaper than them and has easy modular style routing and a friendly interface.
Needs: improve the legacy units to modern standards - add oversampling, finer grained filter sweeps, etc.

Reason DAW $399 or 20$/mo - "traditional" Reason; all the Rack features plus the DAW
>Your competition is Bitwig and Studio One, Ableton Live to a certain extent (*similar nerdy users)
>Strong point, Reason's modular stuff is more "hands-on" feeling than the competition, Reason's built-in instruments are better designed*
*with the proviso that some updating is done as mentioned above
>By promoting it separately from the RRP, it gives a stronger image to each package. The RRP is a "killer plug-in", the DAW is "the modular sound design DAW". Neither feels like an add-on or afterthought.
>Updates can focus on quality of life, and not make all the Reason-as-a-DAW users hate you so much.
Needs: bring the modular aspect such as combinator up to the standard of the competition. The Basic concept is already good. Copy a bunch of quality of life updates from Studio One - those guys have already done all the hard R&D for you.

I think that would give Reason a much stronger image with all the potential customers.

However; I think I am 180º from the intentions of Reason Studios. The tone of the advertising is going in the exact opposite direction.
My idea assumes that Reasons "killer app" is to be a powerhouse for sound design, embracing the slightly "eccentric" and non-mainstream nature of Reason. Not a "lite" product aimed at kids or very casual users. Recently, everything they do looks like it is aimed at complete beginners - they never show Reason as being a professional product, or something you would use to make an album or a movie soundtrack.

The casual kids already have a pirate copy of FL studio and Serum, so I don't think they are going to hurry to buy the full version of Reason.

Like I said, this is just my dumb idea, and I am probably not the kind of user Reason wants any more. Maybe one of you guys has a better idea.

I think splitting RRP from the DAW is very likely... but only in the sense that the DAW is then dropped. RRP then morphs into a subs model with new REs every few months and patches bundles (ie Sound Packs) every week or so. At which point, it really would not be clear who a $20/month sub is aimed at.... “twice what I pay for Adobe or Spotify each month, and I still have to buy a DAW on top?”.

About the only way to make R+ work would be 1) to pitch the price at around half what it is now and 2) throw as much at the DAW as at RRP in terms of effort and innovation.

[certifiedbeatz]

What do you mean? Suite is discontinued which only means it isn't for sale on the Reason Studios site. Other customers can still purchase it from other retailers while they have the stock. Suite users do not lose anything.

They should never have used the name Suite. It makes people think of Ableton Live Suite which is a proper tier of product that stays between major versions.

Reason Suite was essentially a rig of discounted REs that came with a standard Reason license but it sounded like it should be more than that because of the aforementioned industry standard naming convention.

Can't agree more last dollar from myself unless they come full circle..

[esselfortium]

I can't really picture them splitting the rack plugin from the main DAW as two separate products. They tried that kind of approach a decade ago with the split between Reason and Record, and it was a bad move. I think they figured out it was better to keep things simple instead of splitting out their flagship product into two halves.

[rcbuse]

I can't really picture them splitting the rack plugin from the main DAW as two separate products. They tried that kind of approach a decade ago with the split between Reason and Record, and it was a bad move. I think they figured out it was better to keep things simple instead of splitting out their flagship product into two halves.

I dunno. What I would love to see is just the rack VST plugin be free. But you get just the empty shell. Maybe a handful of those oldschool half rack effects. You want all the reason+ devices or the DAW, you gotta subscribe or buy outright. You want one specific RE, then you can buy just that and run it. Hell, I think you could onboard an ocean of new users if you let them have the rack and all the free RE's.

[Threpus]

I can't really picture them splitting the rack plugin from the main DAW as two separate products. They tried that kind of approach a decade ago with the split between Reason and Record, and it was a bad move. I think they figured out it was better to keep things simple instead of splitting out their flagship product into two halves.

I dunno. What I would love to see is just the rack VST plugin be free. But you get just the empty shell. Maybe a handful of those oldschool half rack effects. You want all the reason+ devices or the DAW, you gotta subscribe or buy outright. You want one specific RE, then you can buy just that and run it. Hell, I think you could onboard an ocean of new users if you let them have the rack and all the free RE's.

I think RS was feeling the free rack thing out with that promo on Plugin Boutique a while back. Perhaps the jury is still out on whether it helps them to give it away- but I agree that it makes intuitive sense.

What are developer's thoughts on R+ including third-party REs? I assume that the price would need to be adjusted and/or tiered, but I think that a subscription that gave people a choice of REs- perhaps up to a dollar amount- would make subscriptions more appealing. I guess the viability of that kind of scheme hinges on whether the old RE subscriptions generated much interest to begin with. I got the impression that very few people subscribed.

[rcbuse]

What are developer's thoughts on R+ including third-party REs? I assume that the price would need to be adjusted and/or tiered, but I think that a subscription that gave people a choice of REs- perhaps up to a dollar amount- would make subscriptions more appealing. I guess the viability of that kind of scheme hinges on whether the old RE subscriptions generated much interest to begin with. I got the impression that very few people subscribed.

I don't see any issue with this, I mean, there is already the 3 tiers of RE subscriptions:
Standard $9/month $400 value
Medium $19/month $1000 value
Large $29/month $3000 value

Anyone could just do the Reason+ $19/month + $9/month RE and get whatever they wanted. If they were the type to like subscriptions. Or, if you are inclined to light your money on fire, Reason+ $19/month + $29/month RE.

[joeyluck]

I can't really picture them splitting the rack plugin from the main DAW as two separate products. They tried that kind of approach a decade ago with the split between Reason and Record, and it was a bad move. I think they figured out it was better to keep things simple instead of splitting out their flagship product into two halves.

I dunno. What I would love to see is just the rack VST plugin be free. But you get just the empty shell. Maybe a handful of those oldschool half rack effects. You want all the reason+ devices or the DAW, you gotta subscribe or buy outright. You want one specific RE, then you can buy just that and run it. Hell, I think you could onboard an ocean of new users if you let them have the rack and all the free RE's.

Well there has been Reason Lite given away for free, which included the RRP and was the main draw.

The ones I noticed:

Entire month of July — Plugin Boutique included it for free with any purchase.
Last weekend of August — Waves gave it away to all of their customers via email.
For two months Sep-Nov — Focusrite gave it away to their customers as part of the Plugin Collective.

Those are some pretty big and popular channels for distribution. I'm curious if there was any noticeable impact from that. Between Plugin Boutique and Focusrite, it was given away for three months total. There might have been others?

I think a completely empty rack for free is a great idea. And if the RRP were to add VST support, it would be the best, most inviting "plugin container" out there...because it doesn't feel and act like a typical plugin container. I think the RRP is a great intro to new RE customers, but I think it will grab more people's attention if they can load the VST plugins they own...and then become more curious about REs.

[Yonatan]

As this guy point out, it is unfair that R11 suite users get same lame 50% off first year as anyone on standard R10 or lower. Suite just lack 2 devices...what incitament is there for subscription and I doubt R12 comes out before 27th of April.
And all who bought R11 suite is surely those who want to own all of RS devices, and this Reason+ gives them no way to do that. They could either give better deal or offer Friktion. Pattern Mutator and the new upcoming synth at a valuable sweetened deal as to soothe the tooth.
Or even better suggestion to make for a kind of complete your suite bundle together with the R12 perpetual upgrade, Offer a special price for R12 standard and 3 RS Re of free choice. Suite is discontinued but this would make up a bit for the confusion caused.

[joeyluck]

As this guy point out, it is unfair that R11 suite users get same lame 50% off first year as anyone on standard R10 or lower. Suite just lack 2 devices...what incitament is there for subscription and I doubt R12 comes out before 27th of April.
And all who bought R11 suite is surely those who want to own all of RS devices, and this Reason+ gives them no way to do that. They could either give better deal or offer Friktion. Pattern Mutator and the new upcoming synth at a valuable sweetened deal as to soothe the tooth.
Or even better suggestion to make for a kind of complete your suite bundle together with the R12 perpetual upgrade, Offer a special price for R12 standard and 3 RS Re of free choice. Suite is discontinued but this would make up a bit for the confusion caused.

I don't think it's unfair. People who upgraded to Suite got a ridiculous deal. That's not accounting for those who also got the Suite upgrade on sale... Remember, the difference between Standard and Suite upgrades was only $120 (not when on sale).

There are people who spent much more on the individual devices over the years before Suite...and they don't want to hear about Suite owners complaining about what they paid to upgrade lol. Comparatively, the difference in cost between Standard and the Suite upgrade was negligible.

I think it's ok to keep things simple. There will always be someone who feels left out (or finds a way to feel left out). Keep in mind, this deal is for anyone owning ANY standard version of Reason. So should I be upset that someone on Reason 1 gets the same deal as me after I've upgraded almost every version? Should I make a stink that someone upgrading from Reason 1 gets to pay $129, the same as me, to upgrade to the newest version? I don't think so.

[Threpus]

I'm just thinking that the only way to make R+ appealing to license holders is to fold the old RE subscriptions into the new model- for the sake of argument, adding $11 to each of the old tiers and effectively renting Reason for $11/month. License owners should get the Reason version number deducted in dollars- meaning that an R11 owner gets the Reason part of the sub for free, a 10 owner for a $1, etc. Combining that strategy with a free rack (and a few devices thrown in for good measure) could attract new users AND give license owners cause to subscribe. As R+ is currently constituted, I'm guessing that VERY few 9/10/11 owners will subscribe- so few that the revenue "lost" by the deduction has little to no effect on RS bottom line. So...assuming RS took most of the price difference ($9) out of their end, it would certainly generate more revenue for devs- in the short and long term. I don't know what cut RS takes from extension sales in the shop, but that could go a long way to closing the gap created by the price drop. RS would be poised to fight for market share.

[Yonatan]

Regarding targeted “new users” I sense as some said here, that Reason and Rack plugin are shown as toys for kids. The people working at RS are themselves a bit elderly and I get a sense that they are so overly concerned to try to show off what is their imagination of what new users want.
Reason is surely fun (but so are gaming) when the learning curve has been managed, but music making is not only a 8 bar loop beat where Reason may be good at. Why are soooo many music users of all ages using Ableton or Logic?
Well not because the sound packs, but because the steadily upgraded DAW features. Reason has shown a disinterest of their own DAW, and so many have left it.
This is so crazy because the Reason as full DAW is where Reason shines the most IMO. It is Reason as an overall workstation with mixer, rack and sequencer/recorder, that is where real magic can happen.
Work more on that overall experience and that will make for so many more happy users. Let the RS crew actually use Reason DAW for more than playing around, and they would start to find all those details that can be updated to bring a better experience. The vibe I get from RS is as if they believe there is not much to improve or develop in the DAW. It must be because they do not put themselves in a serious view of a pro or serious songwriter/producers needs to work with Reason on a level for movie scoring or sound design and producing other artists etc.
The level RS portrait their tools is as for dumbing down the capacity of it to stay on a hiphop or blipblop, producing tons of beats.
I dont see that as forward thinking, as young dedicated music makers soon want to go beyond that first stage. Just to find out that Ableton, Logic and others are putting more useful features to the DAW and sequencers are more up-to-date.
I believe RS are looking for young masses of users that don’t really exist but in the imagination.
Pre-made beats may be nice option but soon every user wants to evolve and that is when Reason as a DAW have loads of potential but have been ignored for too long. If you can do both, fibe, but we dont see that you can do both i practice, as RS hiring staff mostly on marketing and other stuff. Where is the dedication to bring Reason to another level as a whole? R12 will show if the DAW gets any real love or just duty of maintenance.

[Yonatan]

As this guy point out, it is unfair that R11 suite users get same lame 50% off first year as anyone on standard R10 or lower. Suite just lack 2 devices...what incitament is there for subscription and I doubt R12 comes out before 27th of April.
And all who bought R11 suite is surely those who want to own all of RS devices, and this Reason+ gives them no way to do that. They could either give better deal or offer Friktion. Pattern Mutator and the new upcoming synth at a valuable sweetened deal as to soothe the tooth.
Or even better suggestion to make for a kind of complete your suite bundle together with the R12 perpetual upgrade, Offer a special price for R12 standard and 3 RS Re of free choice. Suite is discontinued but this would make up a bit for the confusion caused.

I don't think it's unfair. People who upgraded to Suite got a ridiculous deal. That's not accounting for those who also got the Suite upgrade on sale... Remember, the difference between Standard and Suite upgrades was only $120 (not when on sale).

There are people who spent much more on the individual devices over the years before Suite...and they don't want to hear about Suite owners complaining about what they paid to upgrade lol. Comparatively, the difference in cost between Standard and the Suite upgrade was negligible.

I think it's ok to keep things simple. There will always be someone who feels left out (or finds a way to feel left out). Keep in mind, this deal is for anyone owning ANY standard version of Reason. So should I be upset that someone on Reason 1 gets the same deal as me after I've upgraded almost every version? Should I make a stink that someone upgrading from Reason 1 gets to pay $129, the same as me, to upgrade to the newest version? I don't think so.

One of RS problem has been that they use a too broad stroke. There has been no incentive to upgrade to latest version, so many stay with older versions. And if you are on latest version and point out that new upgrade gives not much to the table, ppl in here and at RS point out that “if you are at R9 the upgrade is very very good”. So RS has put themselves in a loop where they now desperate seek new users, as those on latest version gets so little for the upgrade cost. Everything RS delivers since years are getting same saying “great if you dont already have latest version or are new to Reason”. That is their flawed model and it causing problems. It might have been a good model back in 2009 or as temporarily deal to get users onto the latest version. And all who upgrades despite it bringing not much for up-to-date users, to see Reason keep developing, are being left aside every single time. All focus are on new users. It is a failing strategy in the long run as we see on the reactions. If RS did both, there would be another story. I welcome new users by the masses but new soon become ordinary users and they too soon see the neglecting of existing users to the benefit of new ones. RS need to take better care to maintain the people who join and love the DAW, because we live in times where loyalty is a thing which is rare.
Users you gain can easily go away and never look back. Shortsighted gains wont be steady if you do not give respect to the longtime users.
I dont see suite users need have very extra special treatment but they bought into something that RS themself admit they were confused in what suite was. It did not show up as a bundle as everytime you open Reason it says suite.

My opinion is that all who bought lots of RS devices, no matter version they are on, could easily be spotted in their database and be offered some “complete the bundle”. Why all this info and talk about AI and still RS treats its user base with just one stroke. All this technology and the strategy is as if it were 2001.

[orthodox]

I believe RS are looking for young masses of users that don’t really exist but in the imagination.

They do exist, all the time. RS is making the right move staking a claim in their minds, or Reason will be slowly dying with us old farts.
Whatever deplorable state Reason is in now, it should be done.

[Yonatan]

I believe RS are looking for young masses of users that don’t really exist but in the imagination.

They do exist, all the time. RS is making the right move staking a claim in their minds, or Reason will be slowly dying with us old farts.
Whatever deplorable state Reason is in now, it should be done.

The point I want to make is that the marketing treats young ppl as what was trendy x amount of years ago in certain urban genres. Many young ppl might actually be quite mature and are tired of sterile beats with no soul. The trend of cheesy beats gets less attractive when everyone can get it for free everywhere. The joy of creativity is main thing about Reason but they seem to only target one kind of group which I believe is in decline. It is yesterday’s music that is being promoted.
But those audiences can make that music in FL or Logic or Ableton. Reason is not needed for that. The market is saturated with beats and synths and RS wants to have a bigger cake in that. Good luck, but I think it is a shortsighted focus. Visions need be deeper than current half-boomers trying to be hip with the kids. Offer what others are not, think of songwriting and arrangement, mixing and production and collaboration and distribution innovations and features that makes real difference. There are already plenty of tools to sound as every other artist and producer of today. But of tomorrow? Not just “make more music”, but “make your music” should be the aim.
But I might just be an odd fellow in the pond so I step aside and let the circus continue as there wont be any change until the sales shows to be declining even after massive marketings.

[bangaio]

I’ve been thinking about this loads and have a few additional thoughts.

As I’ve said before I have used reason since v1 and before that owned rebirth. I remember the .plan files and spy cam updates and waiting in my university computer lab waiting to read the next update. When I bought reason it was simply everything I ever wanted. For the money it gave me samplers a synth a sequencer and a drum
Machine all of which would have cost me thousands of pounds.

I started also using Ableton at version 1.5 so have seen two companies throw over time.

Part of the issue is that reason is simply old. It I am sure still has a 90s code base at its heart and while we have seen programs with old
Code hurried in them (logic) there are plenty who have had substantial rewrites. Reasons aim to be backwards compatible is laudable but may also be its Achilles heel.

The sequencer aspects are woefully outdated and in my mind marketing the rack plugin just acknowledges that. These days I have live, logic and bitwig to compare reason with and while none is perfect they all blow reasons sequencing capability out of the water.

The reality is saying you can run reason in any other DAW also says reason’s sequencer isn’t good enough.

People don’t buy a DAW because of content being released each week. People use those tried and tested sounds they found years ago or sculpt their one. There’s already enough content on reason to shake a stick at.

People buy live because it is excellent software. The same for other platforms. I can’t honestly say reason is excellent. It’s clever. Has some great devices but as an overall system is lacking.

Even running it in another DAW frustrates me. The bolt on browser. Is just not good compared to other plugins. I’ve realised I don’t really like running reason in another system.

I want reason to be great. I want to use those devices in a modern sequencer. I don’t want to have to press f8 to bring up an early 2000s style pop up window.

People aren’t going to suddenly start subscribing to a service that doesn’t stack up with the competition.

Marketing should be spinning “hey look at these super modern features and exciting developments to our excellent platform”. In stead they’re saying “great news there’s now a new way to pay us for the same old thing”.

You it don’t sell things buy charging roughly the same amount of money for the same thing people already have.

The product needs to change and it really is as simple as that.

The marketing adage of let the product do the talking has been replaced with let the ceo, product manager 1, project manager 2, marketing YouTube live stream guy do the talking. And lots and lots of talking to say you can pay each month and get some new gimmicky sound packs