Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[EnochLight]

Which can be a good thing. If people don’t voice their dissatisfaction then nothing will ever be changed.

Totally agree! Though out of 170,000+ YouTube subscribers, I wonder how many either don't care or are simply satisfied with Reason?

[Aquila]

From what i've seen in threads on other forums, the response to this 'release' is pretty much the same as the one here. Most are saying they aren't interested, with a few saying they could see value in signing up. So it's not just the loyalists who are pissed off and having a go. Lots of people are dumping on the company for their poor PR move.

It's funny. jamespember posted on launch day that Reason had recently been struggling to break out of its niche and attract new users. While I don't completely object to the actual subscription idea, I don't believe that it is the solution to Reason Studios' dilemma.

Looking at the pricing and packages on offer for the last 2 or so versions of Reason it appears that RS have been attempting to compete with Ableton's Live software (I mean, have a look at how eerily familiar Ableton's shop page looks) - however relying almost solely on the uniqueness of the rack without adding much to the core usability and workflow of its DAW side is unlikely to have captured the interest of Live's userbase. Subsequently, trying to charge £300-400 for something that doesn't directly compete with what they're already using is not an attractive alternative. The rack as a plugin argument creates a Catch-22 scenario of why anyone would want to pay full price for software they're only going to use half of?

So in a nutshell, my opinion is that Reason's pricing has been far too ambitious for far too long. Believe it or not, it is entirely possible to create more revenue if you can sell greater quantities at a lower price. It's all about capturing the right market. Therefore, I believe RS should have been trying to aim for the likes of FL Studio's, Logic's, or even Reaper's userbase with a far more competitive pricing model.

Not updating your DAW is a sure way to lose money in the long run.

Satisfying older users keeps them updating. It also makes them likely to recommend DAW to other users.

That, to me, seems to be what may have gone wrong with v11 - the RRP may have been good for a certain percentage of users, but the DAW side was somewhat lacking for others. What that percentage actually is, we'll never truly know, but recent posts from RS staff suggest sales may not have been as good as they had hoped.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Got to say, until this week I never heard the term 'perpetual licence' in my life. I find it quite amusing.

I had to ask google what "perpetual" meant. I don't remember hearing that word in my life before! Reason is always teaching me something

You mustn't be Catholic, then. I was raised Catholic and heard that word for many years before I even knew it's meaning

[certifiedbeatz]

I would love to hear the CEO response to the outrage.

[BonsaiMacKay]

I would love to hear the CEO response to the outrage.

He's gonna write a jingle about it.

Now seriously, I don't think he will say anything. Discontent at an announcement (and how it is made) is common, but it would take a much bigger "catastrophe" for a CEO to come out and mea culpa blah blah blah. This was the case at Ableton a while after the launch of Live 8. It was so bug-ridden, pest control got scared. The CEO went public at one point to apologise and announce that all work on a future version would be halted until Live 8 got fixed. And that is what happened. It took them years though, but in the end Live 8 was excellent and Live 9 was great too. But they risked losing loads of customers before the public apology, I don't think Propeller Studios are in the same position.

[MixerJaexx]

Hey, I'm Jaëxx. I wrote an article on jaexx.com reviewing Reason+. https://www.jaexx.com/blog/reason-revie ... ost-value/

In it, I clarify some misconceptions about Reason+ sound packs (particularly why including ID8's in Combinators within the sound packs is a good thing). I also touched base on Reason+'s impact to third party rack extension developers. And I came up with a value distribution of the three tenants of Reason+ and ran some numbers on Reason+'s value proposition. The upgrade cycle's like we suspected (losing money with Reason+), but the value for those who don't own Reason is actually surprising.

This image shows the value distribution between the three tenants of Reason+ (in the article I discuss how I came to assigning the best possible average for most users).



https://www.jaexx.com/blog/reason-revie ... ost-value/

[certifiedbeatz]

Hey, I'm Jaëxx. I wrote an article on jaexx.com reviewing Reason+. https://www.jaexx.com/blog/reason-revie ... ost-value/

In it, I clarify some misconceptions about Reason+ sound packs (particularly why including ID8's in Combinators within the sound packs is a good thing). I also touched base on Reason+'s impact to third party rack extension developers. And I came up with a value distribution of the three tenants of Reason+ and ran some numbers on Reason+'s value proposition. The upgrade cycle's like we suspected (losing money with Reason+), but the value for those who don't own Reason is actually surprising.

This image shows the value distribution between the three tenants of Reason+ (in the article I discuss how I came to assigning the best possible average for most users).



https://www.jaexx.com/blog/reason-revie ... ost-value/

This is a must read and great review and so true.. if your a suite owner you walk away feeling cheated.. the overall value is negative investment into something you never own.. image like in the review being happy to pay 20 bucks a month to get all of the bells and whistles and you own license for version 9. Then make a few beats then cancel to only find out you can't open them on version 9 not backwards compatible.. crazy!

[Melody303]

I can't wait for the Ransom+ Updates (13.0.0) thread in a couple of years. Ugh. :/

[Arjanders]

I don't think the reason's daw function will evolve.

Same here. The upgrade from 10 to 11 was mainly focused on the Rack VST and some devices, little for the daw, not enough for me for the price.

The subscription again puts the focus for me even more on the rack vst as with the instruments and sounds you get with it.
Reason 12 will be the same, with probablyHi-Res as improvement for the daw, the other things will be some devices and added functionality to the rack.
Maybe the rack will be the modern combinator we would love to see in the standalone.

I'll stick with V10 though and keep my wallet closed.

[MFW]

I can't wait for the Ransom+ Updates (13.0.0) thread in a couple of years. Ugh. :/

Ransom+
Mind you, I'm calling it Vapourware.

[certifiedbeatz]

Greed doesn't end well MR CEO!

[electrofux]

I dont think you get anyone over from Ableton if you care jack shit about your sequencer. Ableton users have a clip launcher and many many use them. Over the years most competitors have one built in too. You could get some Ableton users use the Plugin though - more if there was a free version.
Also most competitors have remote controllers tightly connected to the DAW. In Reason you probably get the best Device remotability on the market if you put in effort but a very limited DAW remotablitiy - heck you cant even switch between Sequencer, Mixer and Rack view from a controller.

[certifiedbeatz]

I dont think you get anyone over from Ableton if you care jack shit about your sequencer. Ableton users have a clip launcher and many many use them. Over the years most competitors have one built in too. You could get some Ableton users use the Plugin though - more if there was a free version.
Also most competitors have remote controllers tightly connected to the DAW. In Reason you probably get the best Device remotability on the market if you put in effort but a very limited DAW remotablitiy - heck you cant even switch between Sequencer, Mixer and Rack view from a controller.

They guys are turning into rent a center..

[cymek74]

If all resources had been poured into 5 or 6 of the most requested features for core DAW improvement, not including HiRes because of the amount of work involved but with communication that it was in the works, then RRP and Reason+ came along, I think a very large amount of negativity would have been avoided. Reason just needs to start with the base and not the point when building the pyramid.

[Threpus]

If all resources had been poured into 5 or 6 of the most requested features for core DAW improvement, not including HiRes because of the amount of work involved but with communication that it was in the works, then RRP and Reason+ came along, I think a very large amount of negativity would have been avoided. Reason just needs to start with the base and not the point when building the pyramid.

Exactly right. The CURRENT users need some assurance that the DAW will remain the centerpiece of RS strategy, not fall further behind while they try to appeal to new users. I think that a balance must be struck- as the revenue needed for RS to improve the DAW must partially come from those new users- but the only way for RS to have success in the long run is to address the shortcomings of the current program. It is not only possible to appease current users while winning new ones- it is necessary.

[chaosroyale]

The post below ended up in a RRP thread, but I think it might fit better here, because it deals with the future of Reason as a DAW;

Disclaimer - I am not a marketing person, and I am probably horrifically out of touch!
But I feel like RS are half-assing two things, instead of whole-assing one thing.

Reason is a...plug-in? a VSTi? a DAW?

This leads to some very mixed messages. Why not clearly divide the Rack Plugin from the DAW for marketing purposes.

Just an example -

Reason Rack Plugin $199 or 10$/mo - no DAW features.
>Advertise directly to Live, Cubase, and FL users
>The competition is Omnisphere / Komplete
>Strong point, Reason is cheaper than them and has easy modular style routing and a friendly interface.
Needs: improve the legacy units to modern standards - add oversampling, finer grained filter sweeps, etc.

Reason DAW $399 or 20$/mo - "traditional" Reason; all the Rack features plus the DAW
>Your competition is Bitwig and Studio One, Ableton Live to a certain extent (*similar nerdy users)
>Strong point, Reason's modular stuff is more "hands-on" feeling than the competition, Reason's built-in instruments are better designed*
*with the proviso that some updating is done as mentioned above
>By promoting it separately from the RRP, it gives a stronger image to each package. The RRP is a "killer plug-in", the DAW is "the modular sound design DAW". Neither feels like an add-on or afterthought.
>Updates can focus on quality of life, and not make all the Reason-as-a-DAW users hate you so much.
Needs: bring the modular aspect such as combinator up to the standard of the competition. The Basic concept is already good. Copy a bunch of quality of life updates from Studio One - those guys have already done all the hard R&D for you.

I think that would give Reason a much stronger image with all the potential customers.

However; I think I am 180º from the intentions of Reason Studios. The tone of the advertising is going in the exact opposite direction.
My idea assumes that Reasons "killer app" is to be a powerhouse for sound design, embracing the slightly "eccentric" and non-mainstream nature of Reason. Not a "lite" product aimed at kids or very casual users. Recently, everything they do looks like it is aimed at complete beginners - they never show Reason as being a professional product, or something you would use to make an album or a movie soundtrack.

The casual kids already have a pirate copy of FL studio and Serum, so I don't think they are going to hurry to buy the full version of Reason.

Like I said, this is just my dumb idea, and I am probably not the kind of user Reason wants any more. Maybe one of you guys has a better idea.

[Threpus]

The post below ended up in a RRP thread, but I think it might fit better here, because it deals with the future of Reason as a DAW;

Disclaimer - I am not a marketing person, and I am probably horrifically out of touch!
But I feel like RS are half-assing two things, instead of whole-assing one thing.

Reason is a...plug-in? a VSTi? a DAW?

This leads to some very mixed messages. Why not clearly divide the Rack Plugin from the DAW for marketing purposes.

Just an example -

Reason Rack Plugin $199 or 10$/mo - no DAW features.
>Advertise directly to Live, Cubase, and FL users
>The competition is Omnisphere / Komplete
>Strong point, Reason is cheaper than them and has easy modular style routing and a friendly interface.
Needs: improve the legacy units to modern standards - add oversampling, finer grained filter sweeps, etc.

Reason DAW $399 or 20$/mo - "traditional" Reason; all the Rack features plus the DAW
>Your competition is Bitwig and Studio One, Ableton Live to a certain extent (*similar nerdy users)
>Strong point, Reason's modular stuff is more "hands-on" feeling than the competition, Reason's built-in instruments are better designed*
*with the proviso that some updating is done as mentioned above
>By promoting it separately from the RRP, it gives a stronger image to each package. The RRP is a "killer plug-in", the DAW is "the modular sound design DAW". Neither feels like an add-on or afterthought.
>Updates can focus on quality of life, and not make all the Reason-as-a-DAW users hate you so much.
Needs: bring the modular aspect such as combinator up to the standard of the competition. The Basic concept is already good. Copy a bunch of quality of life updates from Studio One - those guys have already done all the hard R&D for you.

I think that would give Reason a much stronger image with all the potential customers.

However; I think I am 180º from the intentions of Reason Studios. The tone of the advertising is going in the exact opposite direction.
My idea assumes that Reasons "killer app" is to be a powerhouse for sound design, embracing the slightly "eccentric" and non-mainstream nature of Reason. Not a "lite" product aimed at kids or very casual users. Recently, everything they do looks like it is aimed at complete beginners - they never show Reason as being a professional product, or something you would use to make an album or a movie soundtrack.

The casual kids already have a pirate copy of FL studio and Serum, so I don't think they are going to hurry to buy the full version of Reason.

Like I said, this is just my dumb idea, and I am probably not the kind of user Reason wants any more. Maybe one of you guys has a better idea.

Another strong post. It's being sold as a kid's program, but at a grown-up price. The way forward, from a marketing perspective, is probably to emphasize the fact that it is the best way to learn how real hardware is wired and used- and, as such, that it simulates the studio experience like nothing else- but that it meets you where you are, and lets beginners obtain a good result. It acknowledges what sets Reason apart and makes it special, rather than presenting it as an incomplete competitor to other programs.

[certifiedbeatz]

Waiting for some one from RS.. to reply

[joeyluck]

Waiting for some one from RS.. to reply

To what specifically?

[cursors]

The post below ended up in a RRP thread, but I think it might fit better here, because it deals with the future of Reason as a DAW;

Disclaimer - I am not a marketing person, and I am probably horrifically out of touch!
But I feel like RS are half-assing two things, instead of whole-assing one thing.

Reason is a...plug-in? a VSTi? a DAW?

This leads to some very mixed messages. Why not clearly divide the Rack Plugin from the DAW for marketing purposes.

Just an example -

Reason Rack Plugin $199 or 10$/mo - no DAW features.
>Advertise directly to Live, Cubase, and FL users
>The competition is Omnisphere / Komplete
>Strong point, Reason is cheaper than them and has easy modular style routing and a friendly interface.
Needs: improve the legacy units to modern standards - add oversampling, finer grained filter sweeps, etc.

Reason DAW $399 or 20$/mo - "traditional" Reason; all the Rack features plus the DAW
>Your competition is Bitwig and Studio One, Ableton Live to a certain extent (*similar nerdy users)
>Strong point, Reason's modular stuff is more "hands-on" feeling than the competition, Reason's built-in instruments are better designed*
*with the proviso that some updating is done as mentioned above
>By promoting it separately from the RRP, it gives a stronger image to each package. The RRP is a "killer plug-in", the DAW is "the modular sound design DAW". Neither feels like an add-on or afterthought.
>Updates can focus on quality of life, and not make all the Reason-as-a-DAW users hate you so much.
Needs: bring the modular aspect such as combinator up to the standard of the competition. The Basic concept is already good. Copy a bunch of quality of life updates from Studio One - those guys have already done all the hard R&D for you.

I think that would give Reason a much stronger image with all the potential customers.

However; I think I am 180º from the intentions of Reason Studios. The tone of the advertising is going in the exact opposite direction.
My idea assumes that Reasons "killer app" is to be a powerhouse for sound design, embracing the slightly "eccentric" and non-mainstream nature of Reason. Not a "lite" product aimed at kids or very casual users. Recently, everything they do looks like it is aimed at complete beginners - they never show Reason as being a professional product, or something you would use to make an album or a movie soundtrack.

The casual kids already have a pirate copy of FL studio and Serum, so I don't think they are going to hurry to buy the full version of Reason.

Like I said, this is just my dumb idea, and I am probably not the kind of user Reason wants any more. Maybe one of you guys has a better idea.

I agree with everything you said
What I don't like is this pretend naïveté of the Reason Studios webpage, people are not (that ) stupid.
I think the Reason Rack Plugin as definitely changed it, especially Ableton 11 with the new 16 macros and the randomiser. It's almost like they are doing it just to see how much subscribers will pay to optimise the sequencer. I hope I'm wrong.

[certifiedbeatz]

Waiting for some one from RS.. to reply

To what specifically?

Users feeling abandoned such as suite users..

[oolaa]

The post below ended up in a RRP thread, but I think it might fit better here, because it deals with the future of Reason as a DAW;

Disclaimer - I am not a marketing person, and I am probably horrifically out of touch!
But I feel like RS are half-assing two things, instead of whole-assing one thing.

Reason is a...plug-in? a VSTi? a DAW?

This leads to some very mixed messages. Why not clearly divide the Rack Plugin from the DAW for marketing purposes.

Just an example -

Reason Rack Plugin $199 or 10$/mo - no DAW features.
>Advertise directly to Live, Cubase, and FL users
>The competition is Omnisphere / Komplete
>Strong point, Reason is cheaper than them and has easy modular style routing and a friendly interface.
Needs: improve the legacy units to modern standards - add oversampling, finer grained filter sweeps, etc.

Reason DAW $399 or 20$/mo - "traditional" Reason; all the Rack features plus the DAW
>Your competition is Bitwig and Studio One, Ableton Live to a certain extent (*similar nerdy users)
>Strong point, Reason's modular stuff is more "hands-on" feeling than the competition, Reason's built-in instruments are better designed*
*with the proviso that some updating is done as mentioned above
>By promoting it separately from the RRP, it gives a stronger image to each package. The RRP is a "killer plug-in", the DAW is "the modular sound design DAW". Neither feels like an add-on or afterthought.
>Updates can focus on quality of life, and not make all the Reason-as-a-DAW users hate you so much.
Needs: bring the modular aspect such as combinator up to the standard of the competition. The Basic concept is already good. Copy a bunch of quality of life updates from Studio One - those guys have already done all the hard R&D for you.

I think that would give Reason a much stronger image with all the potential customers.

However; I think I am 180º from the intentions of Reason Studios. The tone of the advertising is going in the exact opposite direction.
My idea assumes that Reasons "killer app" is to be a powerhouse for sound design, embracing the slightly "eccentric" and non-mainstream nature of Reason. Not a "lite" product aimed at kids or very casual users. Recently, everything they do looks like it is aimed at complete beginners - they never show Reason as being a professional product, or something you would use to make an album or a movie soundtrack.

The casual kids already have a pirate copy of FL studio and Serum, so I don't think they are going to hurry to buy the full version of Reason.

Like I said, this is just my dumb idea, and I am probably not the kind of user Reason wants any more. Maybe one of you guys has a better idea.

Do you want to kill off Reason the DAW then? Because that is what your proposal to split the VST off might end up doing.

What we get now is simpler and I am happy with thank you very much.

Miscommunication about what Reason Suite was is what caused most of this confusion and upset, at least now we have one product to get behind that does it all... that is Reason. Rent it or buy it, that is the choice now.

[joeyluck]

To what specifically?

Users feeling abandoned such as suite users..

What do you mean? Suite is discontinued which only means it isn't for sale on the Reason Studios site. Other customers can still purchase it from other retailers while they have the stock. Suite users do not lose anything.

[sprinkles__]

Hey, I'm Jaëxx. I wrote an article on jaexx.com reviewing Reason+.

In it, I clarify some misconceptions about Reason+ sound packs (particularly why including ID8's in Combinators within the sound packs is a good thing). I also touched base on Reason+'s impact to third party rack extension developers. And I came up with a value distribution of the three tenants of Reason+

Hey, I'm sprinkles. I use the word tenants when i mean to say tenets because that's just what people do on the internet! Cos LMAO ROFL WTF LOL.


Anybody know a word for people who spend money every month on something they will never own?

Tenants! Yes. Hilarious.

I think Reason are hoping they get more than three tenants in their refurbished housing complex though...

[EdwardKiy]

Also most competitors have remote controllers tightly connected to the DAW. In Reason you probably get the best Device remotability on the market if you put in effort but a very limited DAW remotablitiy - heck you cant even switch between Sequencer, Mixer and Rack view from a controller.

sorry if this is a bit off-topic, and I've already stated my view earlier on the 'update' and how it was handled. But you can switch between Sequencer, mixer and rack from a midi controller. Don't know about the others, but a nektar t6 can.