Reason 12 release date?

[Carly(Poohbear)]

Reason Studios is clearly going towards a “Native Instruments’ Komplete” model. They are focusing on instruments rather than the DAW itself for the past 5 years.

For those wanting “DAW” updates, I don’t understand why you don’t use reason as a plugin in another more advanced DAW like Logic, Ableton, FL Studio or even StudioOne.

There is no way Reason 12 will be able to compete with modern DAWs. It’s just waaay behind and will need years and even by then competitors will go beyond DAW functionalities and QoL improvements.

Just get over it. Reason is a plugin first, a basic DAW second.

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

No seriously

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Sorry, seriously though

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

It's OK I got my shit together now,

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

So Reason is a Basic DAW and you have mentioned some other more "advanced" DAW's...

So why is it these other "advanced" DAW's don't even come close to what I need them to do while "Basic" Reason does it all?

I'm not trying or meaning to blow my own trumpet here however I have looked quite hard indeed and I believe my last big project I did, which happened to be "In C" totally done in a DAW (and a basic one like Reason as the others just don't cut it), may have been a first ever (I'm still searching)...

Surely that means they are not more advanced but less advanced in this case as they are not up for the job....

Use the right tools for the right job, Reason is my toolbox but for others they may need a different toolbox, does not make theirs or mine better, just different...

[guitfnky]

Reason Studios is clearly going towards a “Native Instruments’ Komplete” model. They are focusing on instruments rather than the DAW itself for the past 5 years.

For those wanting “DAW” updates, I don’t understand why you don’t use reason as a plugin in another more advanced DAW like Logic, Ableton, FL Studio or even StudioOne.

There is no way Reason 12 will be able to compete with modern DAWs. It’s just waaay behind and will need years and even by then competitors will go beyond DAW functionalities and QoL improvements.

Just get over it. Reason is a plugin first, a basic DAW second.

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

No seriously

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sorry, seriously though

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

It's OK I got my shit together now,

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

So Reason is a Basic DAW and you have mentioned some other more "advanced" DAW's...

So why is it these other "advanced" DAW's don't even come close to what I need them to do while "Basic" Reason does it all?

I'm not trying or meaning to blow my own trumpet here however I have looked quite hard indeed and I believe my last big project I did, which happened to be "In C" totally done in a DAW (and a basic one like Reason as the others just don't cut it), may have been a first ever (I'm still searching)...

Surely that means they are not more advanced but less advanced in this case as they are not up for the job....

Use the right tools for the right job, Reason is my toolbox but for others they may need a different toolbox, does not make theirs or mine better, just different...

because yours isn’t exactly a standard use case.

what you describe (and I did watch a bit of your video—very impressive, btw!) doesn’t strike me as evidence that Reason is a good DAW (in the common use of the term), it reinforces what I know about Reason being an immensely flexible routing environment.

it’s great for the sort of thing you describe, but honestly pretty terrible at quite a lot of the basics an average user would reach for regularly in a more traditional project.

[Mataya]

Guy is kinda right and I don't think it's that funny.
Just because you like to use 150 devices to achieve some mediocre generative music or better sequences, doesn't mean Reason wouldn't benefit from few(a ton) of extra handy features that other daw's have.
You use it for the right job and I would like to use it for my kinda job which is making music and it's obviously programmed to help you make music, but why they stop where other daw's for making music don't is beyond me.

M

[fieldframe]

I don't think "Reason has always been an instrument first and foremost" quite hits the mark.

It's been an instrument, but more than that, it's been a groovebox since day one. That is, an instrument that is also a lightweight workstation, that lets you build complete songs. Reason 1.0 had more in common with an MC-505 than Cubase.

Like a groovebox, you could either use it on its own or plug it into a DAW (either awkwardly with Rewire or seamlessly now with RRP). Just as grooveboxes have become more powerful over the past two decades, Reason also has moved more toward Cubase than MC-505, but the groovebox ethos is absolutely still there; it's in Reason's DNA.

It's entirely valid to want more DAW features in Reason, with the caveat that Reason will always be more streamlined and lightweight than the major DAWs. Expecting it to "catch up" is waiting for something that will never happen, because that's not what Reason is. It's a groovebox first and foremost, and I hope it continues to evolve as the most powerful and inspiring one out there.

[Michaellos]

It’ll come exactly 24 hours after they remove the option to authorize using an Ignition Key. Watch this space.

They have said that they wouldn't break it for existing users and only mac big sur isn't supported so I hope they stick to what they have said.

I'm still waiting for an extra auth.
Just like I'm waiting for an offline solution for annual subscribers.

But I've noticed RS have been quite about all these things.....

I would say that the future of usb ignition key is still undetermined. Possibly we need a special thread where RS will give us a clear answer about what exactly will happen to ignition key.

[MrFigg]

They have said that they wouldn't break it for existing users and only mac big sur isn't supported so I hope they stick to what they have said.

I'm still waiting for an extra auth.
Just like I'm waiting for an offline solution for annual subscribers.

But I've noticed RS have been quite about all these things.....

I would say that the future of usb ignition key is still undetermined. Possibly we need a special thread where RS will give us a clear answer about what exactly will happen to ignition key.

Clear answer from RS? Hahahahahaha.

[Billy+]

They have said that they wouldn't break it for existing users and only mac big sur isn't supported so I hope they stick to what they have said.

I'm still waiting for an extra auth.
Just like I'm waiting for an offline solution for annual subscribers.

But I've noticed RS have been quite about all these things.....

I would say that the future of usb ignition key is still undetermined. Possibly we need a special thread where RS will give us a clear answer about what exactly will happen to ignition key.

Ignition keys have been discontinued - they are no longer on sale from ReadonStudios, but should continue to operate on current operating systems.

It was made very clear that they would continue to work but RS definitely want to phase them out in favour of using an internal developed solution.

[demt]

So erm do you all use blocks in this inferior sequencer or do you have mental blocks.

[Billy+]

So erm do you all use blocks in this inferior sequencer or do you have mental blocks.

Been using blocks since they first got introduced

[Jackjackdaw]

I don't think the sequencer is inferior. I think it is highly integrated and very streamlined. I love using it. Also there is a ton of stuff it cannot do that is pretty basic. Record more than one midi track at once for instance. Or add markers, or punch in and out etc etc... It is what it is.

[selig]

Just get over it. Reason is a plugin first, a basic DAW second.

I've always seen Reason as far more than a "plugin". With Komplete you can't build songs, but even from Reason 1.0 onwards you had all of the basic song building tools with one exception: multitrack audio recording.

This has always put Reason in a unique position IMO, for better or worse. What is it; is it a software synth/sampler/REX player/drum machine, a MIDI sequencer, a modular instrument/FX routing environment, a "band in a box", or all of the above (and more)?

I'd take it further and say that Reason has always been, bar audio recording, more like what modern DAWs have evolved into: a total music creation environment providing sequencing, instruments, FX, and a mixer (just no tape recorder!), set up however you wanted. Remember that when Reason first came on the scene in 2000, Most DAWs were basically audio recorders/editors/mixers, with MIDI recording/editing "tacked on" at some point after 1.0 and provided, if any, only a VERY bare bones instrument selection (laughable in some cases IMO).

[Stamatz]

Reason has what no other DAW's have, that's the look and feel of real hardware, cabling, instrument and players, rack extensions and the way that all ties to the ecosystem. Maybe it's me, I know I'm old but I like that and that is exactly what I am looking for.
It makes me feel like I walked into a million dollar studio. I have tried, Bitwig, Abelton, FL, S1, Performer and none of them make me feel like that.
I'm just a hobbyist but anyone can make music with all of that, I mean probably even me...lol.
Add a few instruments, a combinator, a touch of players, the delta, a shake of the mutator and wammo a million possible starting points.
I mean come on that sounds like a lot of fun, oh and poohbear and Ryan videos, those things are great.
Really looking forward to R12, maybe a new super combinator, hoping it includes Algoritm and Friktion.
Future is looking bright I hope, keep smiling.

[Creativemind]

I also think that the release of R12 will bring the longest threads in ReasonTalk history, packed with more despair and joy than any of us ever thought possible.

I expect nothing less. Probably more despair than joy. Seems like we live in a time when people are more agitated and pissed off then ever. Can't help but think the whole pandemic thing plays a part in this. People are just waiting to take their anger and frustrations out on anything. And I suspect R12 will be a perfect excuse to do just that.
But we'll see.

I'm looking forward to see what R12 will bring. I have zero expectations or wishlists, so it will probably be more joy than despair for me.

If they put more than £30 worth of features into 12 and not charge £110 for like 6 features, we don't need devices when we have probably 1000 vst's & Re's available.

[Jagwah]

How about they focus on updating the goddamn DAW for Reason 12 and show us they have intentions of doing that.

The backlash is getting worse, but it's probably like nothing to them, new people keep coming and spending bunches of money then they stop mattering so then on to the next lot.

I was a Battlefield player for many years, with the last iteration users who pre-ordered were in for a real rough ride. The price went down drastically in the first two weeks which was like a smack in the face, all the bonuses concerned with pre-ordering were given for free to everyone, it was buggy as hell, they took out hardcore mode which just killed me and they never added it, we begged for responses on the official forum and were met with very sarcastic and rude official responses - so much bad crap happened and the forum was full of people calling for class action suits as it really was beyond a joke, the level of contempt was huge. The funny thing is, all they need is a big new shiny trailer for their next iteration and a million new people will jump on board opening their wallets with no clue of the mistreatment and outright ripping off of customers prior, their upset and outrage were literally nothing to the company and would never matter. It really shows how consumer loyalty can mean nothing, being a long term user and purchaser of something can be nothing to a company if new users bring in the money and the older loyal ones do not or simply don't matter as much profit wise.

Like mentioned above with all the VSTs available and quite superior ones, and also the backlash (that may not matter at all) I really think they are mad to not be upgrading the DAW big time right now and for the following few iterations. I still doubt anything great is going to happen, we already know about the main features of the next upgrade and I believe they are focused on the RRP. Probably a few little sequencer improvements which a bunch of people will be overjoyed by.

Reason 10 FTW.

[miscend]

Reason isn't a traditional DAW. It's not going for parity with Cubase and Logic.

[mcatalao]

I've always seen Reason as far more than a "plugin". With Komplete you can't build songs, but even from Reason 1.0 onwards you had all of the basic song building tools with one exception: multitrack audio recording.

This has always put Reason in a unique position IMO, for better or worse. What is it; is it a software synth/sampler/REX player/drum machine, a MIDI sequencer, a modular instrument/FX routing environment, a "band in a box", or all of the above (and more)?

Exactly. And to this day I still find it awkward people complaining so much about the sequencer when I completely ditched Cubase's midi sequencer for Reason's midi sequencer more than 10 years ago! Maybe it is because sequence everything with a 88keys piano and only use the midi sequencer for editing, maybe because a lot of people forget about the tools window... Reason's sequencer has been enough for me since V2.5.

I'm going to say this again... People would complain far less, and work 5x faster if they'd read the freaking manual.

[LongFist]

Reason isn't a traditional DAW. It's not going for parity with Cubase and Logic.

Very much this. Very, very much this. If people are interested in "Why?" perhaps they should read George Carlin's page-turner: "Why Hawaii and Norway are not near each other". (Informative on every page.)

[guitfnky]

Reason isn't a traditional DAW. It's not going for parity with Cubase and Logic.

Very much this. Very, very much this. If people are interested in "Why?" perhaps they should read George Carlin's page-turner: "Why Hawaii and Norway are not near each other". (Informative on every page.)

nobody expects parity. we expect bare minimum quality-of-life features—the sorts of things that are in EVERY major DAW, because they’re useful to large numbers of people (which is why they exist in every major DAW).

[Carly(Poohbear)]

it’s great for the sort of thing you describe, but honestly pretty terrible at quite a lot of the basics an average user would reach for regularly in a more traditional project.

I do "normal" projects as well (sort of) and have not been held back in the last 21 years of using Reason, bit of learning curve as I'm still learning it.

.......

This next bit is not totally aimed at you 2 you just happened to be part of this post


The grass is not always greener on the other side, if it was we will all be there.

I could make a statement of "Reason is the best DAW", some people will agree many would think I'm loosing my marbles.

If I make a statement of "Reason is the best DAW out there for Generative music and complex signal routing" I would expect a lot more of a positive response.

The point I'm making just saying something is more advanced without any kind of statement or context is just plain daft, pointless even.

I bite my lip a lot with other pointless statements of "Reason needs XYZ just like ABC has it", Reason is not like ABC, why try to make it like ABC, now you may see a feature in another DAW and say to yourself now that would be really handy in Reason when doing XYZ, surely it's a better statement and case to put it that way and forget altogether where the idea came from, does it resolve an issue or give greater enhancement to the product at hand (Reason in our case), build a case and statement around that and the powers that be will probably spend a little more time thinking it over, where as "Logic has this......." they may not read the rest and just say, use Logic then, next.....

[plaamook]

Reason isn't a traditional DAW. It's not going for parity with Cubase and Logic.

Very much this. Very, very much this. If people are interested in "Why?" perhaps they should read George Carlin's page-turner: "Why Hawaii and Norway are not near each other". (Informative on every page.)

Post a link. I love GC. Can't find your reference.

[selig]

Reason isn't a traditional DAW. It's not going for parity with Cubase and Logic.

Very much this. Very, very much this. If people are interested in "Why?" perhaps they should read George Carlin's page-turner: "Why Hawaii and Norway are not near each other". (Informative on every page.)

IMO Reason should be going for being MORE than a DAW, not going for parity with existing “traditional” DAWs. Reason could never become more like a traditional DAW unless it removed features!

[Mataya]

it’s great for the sort of thing you describe, but honestly pretty terrible at quite a lot of the basics an average user would reach for regularly in a more traditional project.

I do "normal" projects as well (sort of) and have not been held back in the last 21 years of using Reason, bit of learning curve as I'm still learning it.

.......

.......

I don't even care about all this s***. It's just a piece of software and If I find use for it, I use it and if not, I use something else.

I was pretty much aiming at the crazy laughter of yours and thinking how unnecessarly insane it was to see it in a post...so I engaged.

tx
M

[Creativemind]

How about they focus on updating the goddamn DAW for Reason 12 and show us they have intentions of doing that.

The backlash is getting worse, but it's probably like nothing to them, new people keep coming and spending bunches of money then they stop mattering so then on to the next lot.

I was a Battlefield player for many years, with the last iteration users who pre-ordered were in for a real rough ride. The price went down drastically in the first two weeks which was like a smack in the face, all the bonuses concerned with pre-ordering were given for free to everyone, it was buggy as hell, they took out hardcore mode which just killed me and they never added it, we begged for responses on the official forum and were met with very sarcastic and rude official responses - so much bad crap happened and the forum was full of people calling for class action suits as it really was beyond a joke, the level of contempt was huge. The funny thing is, all they need is a big new shiny trailer for their next iteration and a million new people will jump on board opening their wallets with no clue of the mistreatment and outright ripping off of customers prior, their upset and outrage were literally nothing to the company and would never matter. It really shows how consumer loyalty can mean nothing, being a long term user and purchaser of something can be nothing to a company if new users bring in the money and the older loyal ones do not or simply don't matter as much profit wise.

Like mentioned above with all the VSTs available and quite superior ones, and also the backlash (that may not matter at all) I really think they are mad to not be upgrading the DAW big time right now and for the following few iterations. I still doubt anything great is going to happen, we already know about the main features of the next upgrade and I believe they are focused on the RRP. Probably a few little sequencer improvements which a bunch of people will be overjoyed by.

Reason 10 FTW.

Spot on.

[Creativemind]

Wish they'd just crack on with these little ease-of-life features like autosave, note displays, tab to label next track, sync windows and browsers on the fly etc.

If we look at the daw itself in terms of features since 10 excluding bug fixes:-

10 to 10.4 - None whatsoever (it's like they think nothing's missing??), we could've had half a dozen at least surely?

11-11.3 - Octave Shift notes in the midi editor, New Pencil Tool to draw notes in the Midi Editor, Key Visualization of Notes in the Midi Editor, Muting Midi Notes, Curved Automation (1 curve lol!), Auto-Crossfading of Audio (1 curve and no vertical allignment), Improved Height Zoom on the Sequencer Tracks, Absolute / Relative Snap, Draw an Automation Line using Shift and mouse, MP3 Export, Shift Double Click to Select A Row of Notes in the Midi Editor.

That's 11 features to the actual daw itself in 2 major updates + 26 point updates. Just checked their site realease notes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, 12 is gonna tell all if you ask me. It'll solidify their intentions about the daw itself once and for all. If it's pitiful, it's just not gonna be the daw we all we wish it was and could be.

I don't wanna throw comparisons but we just had an update to Reaper a couple of days ago with 20+ features in it and that's the 5th update we've had since around 13th Dec last year with 20+ features in each and when it already has about 60+ more features than Reason. I sometimes wonder how they find so many features to add lol!

As for the topic of this thread - I think if there's no 11.4 or .5 then Reason 12 will be announced in about a month with it actually being released a month later at say the end of May beginning of June, if we have an 11.4 or .5 then that will be released in the next 2 or 3 weeks with 12 released about August I'd say.

EDIT - When was the 1/128th Snap Value added?

[EnochLight]

Just get over it. Reason is a plugin first, a basic DAW second.

Basic? Nah, it's quite competent. Totally agree it will never be as advanced as its peers, though.