Announcing Reason 13

[mimidancer]

Reason 13 is a good addition for Reason users but I don't think it will attract any new "fan base", I mean a new synth and a delay aint going to make anyone pull the trigger, no one going to go, wow look at the browser, I'm getting this.

They did a great move with Reason as a plugin. but they should massively improve the sequencer, audio editing (things like VocAlign integrated) other than that, I don't know where they can go to attract new users.

I love Reason 12 for the workflow, the new combinator and cable routing

One thing I do not like is the visual direction it's taken, this bland, dual tone lifeless scheme (gray and black)

Even the new browser seem to have all gray/black icons but in Reason 12 the left bar has color icons

Saying this cause I just saw Luna going on Windows and visually, that's what I wish Reason would look like but keeping the same workflow.

I stumbled on the old bar (image on google) (start stop rec ect) and seing the one in Luna, it's look so much better than the current 2 tone gray colors.

Reason Plus is the attraction. The cost of entry is minimal. And you start with more than any studio had in the 80s and 90s.

[gullum]

Reason 13 is a good addition for Reason users but I don't think it will attract any new "fan base", I mean a new synth and a delay aint going to make anyone pull the trigger, no one going to go, wow look at the browser, I'm getting this.

They did a great move with Reason as a plugin. but they should massively improve the sequencer, audio editing (things like VocAlign integrated) other than that, I don't know where they can go to attract new users.

well new users don't just get a new Synth and delay, the get everything from version 1 to 13

[mind2069]

Reason 13 is a good addition for Reason users but I don't think it will attract any new "fan base", I mean a new synth and a delay aint going to make anyone pull the trigger, no one going to go, wow look at the browser, I'm getting this.

They did a great move with Reason as a plugin. but they should massively improve the sequencer, audio editing (things like VocAlign integrated) other than that, I don't know where they can go to attract new users.

well new users don't just get a new Synth and delay, the get everything from version 1 to 13

I said there's nothing game changing from 12 to 13 to persuade a new users to join. Nothing like when they added audio, or vst, or reason as a plugin. Something that would make the industry give a second look, or a wow factor

If at the moment you where looking for a daw, 12 would be as good of a choice as 13, of course 13 is a little better but nothing to make someone very exited

Basically , Reason 13 has small but good additions to existing users.

I know not every version can be a gamer changer, some are, Reason 13 is not.

[tewoc]

well new users don't just get a new Synth and delay, the get everything from version 1 to 13

I said there's nothing game changing from 12 to 13 to persuade a new users to join. Nothing like when they added audio, or vst, or reason as a plugin. Something that would make the industry give a second look, or a wow factor

If at the moment you where looking for a daw, 12 would be as good of a choice as 13, of course 13 is a little better but nothing to make someone very exited

Basically , Reason 13 has small but good additions to existing users.

I know not every version can be a gamer changer, some are, Reason 13 is not.

You are totally right and it was very clear written from you.

[Koshdukai]

The morph feature interpolates parameters between the two engines.
In this context, the dedicated modulation knobs make a lot of sense. They let you easily see how one engine's modulation settings will morph into the other's.
It would be less intuitive if you were instead interpolating between two completely different mod matrix setups.

That's an excellent point I hadn't considered before, that you can't morph between two unknown or empty parameters. Thus, to morph predictably between two synth engines you need either a fairly simple system that is based on identical engines (has the same exact preset routings possible in both engines), or is so advanced it's not even using a traditional interface (maybe something AI based?).
Ideally you need as many controls to be continuous (without steps) as possible for smooth transitions during morphing, so two separate mod matrixes would be right out!
Great observation.

The Arturia PolyBrute has Preset Morphing between A and B (like the Polytone)
Unlike the Polytone, it has a 12x8x8 Mod Matrix with up to 64 mod points and... it works.

But it looks like the Polytone aims at a quick'n'simple approach to sound designing so a ModMatrix might push that notion a bit too far, maybe.

[selig]

That's an excellent point I hadn't considered before, that you can't morph between two unknown or empty parameters. Thus, to morph predictably between two synth engines you need either a fairly simple system that is based on identical engines (has the same exact preset routings possible in both engines), or is so advanced it's not even using a traditional interface (maybe something AI based?).
Ideally you need as many controls to be continuous (without steps) as possible for smooth transitions during morphing, so two separate mod matrixes would be right out!
Great observation.

The Arturia PolyBrute has Preset Morphing between A and B (like the Polytone)
Unlike the Polytone, it has a 12x8x8 Mod Matrix with up to 64 mod points and... it works.

What happens if a modulation slot is assigned to/from different sources/destinations? I’m guessing it jumps from one to the other. Or does it scan through all the possible modulation positions in between?

[Koshdukai]

The Arturia PolyBrute has Preset Morphing between A and B (like the Polytone)
Unlike the Polytone, it has a 12x8x8 Mod Matrix with up to 64 mod points and... it works.

What happens if a modulation slot is assigned to/from different sources/destinations? I’m guessing it jumps from one to the other. Or does it scan through all the possible modulation positions in between?

The source->target is common to A and B but the mod amounts aren't, so it's easy to go from the A amount to B amount (and back).

[Pepin]

What happens if a modulation slot is assigned to/from different sources/destinations? I’m guessing it jumps from one to the other. Or does it scan through all the possible modulation positions in between?

The source->target is common to A and B but the mod amounts aren't, so it's easy to go from the A amount to B amount (and back).

Polytone seems so simple that shared mod matrix entries like this wouldn’t open up many possibilities not already presented by the modulation knobs. Though maybe I’ll feel differently once I’ve used it.

But my initial point was that the modulation knobs are more immediate and intuitive for the end user to reason about, not that a mod matrix is impossible. They make it clear from the beginning exactly how the morphing will operate.

[Koshdukai]

The source->target is common to A and B but the mod amounts aren't, so it's easy to go from the A amount to B amount (and back).

Polytone seems so simple that shared mod matrix entries like this wouldn’t open up many possibilities not already presented by the modulation knobs. Though maybe I’ll feel differently once I’ve used it.

But my initial point was that the modulation knobs are more immediate and intuitive for the end user to reason about, not that a mod matrix is impossible. They make it clear from the beginning exactly how the morphing will operate.

I agree. For this kind of synth, I don't see any huge advantage on having a mod matrix.

My point was that Morphing and a ModMatrix aren't incompatible

[selig]

What happens if a modulation slot is assigned to/from different sources/destinations? I’m guessing it jumps from one to the other. Or does it scan through all the possible modulation positions in between?

The source->target is common to A and B but the mod amounts aren't, so it's easy to go from the A amount to B amount (and back).

OK, now translate that to a Reason style mod matrix where you don’t have every possible path accounted for. That’s what I’m talking about. Ultimately you want every control to be continuous, but a mod matrix breaks that in a way a grid matrix does not if I’m understanding correctly.

[Koshdukai]

The source->target is common to A and B but the mod amounts aren't, so it's easy to go from the A amount to B amount (and back).

OK, now translate that to a Reason style mod matrix where you don’t have every possible path accounted for. That’s what I’m talking about. Ultimately you want every control to be continuous, but a mod matrix breaks that in a way a grid matrix does not if I’m understanding correctly.

A Reason style mod matrix is just a list of Source-(amount)->Target
(a matrix is just a list of those lists).
Each entry on that list affects both A and B preset though each with its own amount.

The simplest (UI-wise) would be to have 2 Mod Amount Columns, an A and a B and that's it.
The "harder GUI coding intensive" way would be to have the traditional 1 mod amount column that would change the value according to the Morph position.
It could even allow editing of the amount at any Morph position, though reseting the A and/or B values, relatively... if so designed.

[SebAudio]

well new users don't just get a new Synth and delay, the get everything from version 1 to 13

I’m not sure of this is going to attract a lot of new users. The quality and quantity of soft synths and fx has grown up so much that old devices can look… old !
Buying Komplete or Reaktor or V collection for the old synths ?
Old soft are just a bonus. It must havé something new (what about including Objekt ?)

[SebAudio]

For this kind of synth, I don't see any huge advantage on having a mod matrix.

My point was that Morphing and a ModMatrix aren't incompatible

Polytone is the next itération of the Nord Lead 1, has the original developer stayed at Clavia

[Neo]

For this kind of synth, I don't see any huge advantage on having a mod matrix.

My point was that Morphing and a ModMatrix aren't incompatible

Polytone is the next itération of the Nord Lead 1, has the original developer stayed at Clavia

The Peter Jubel Appreciation Thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7503308&start=25

https://mixdownmag.com.au/features/colu ... nord-lead/

[selig]

Respectfully, I think it is clear that posting critical or dissenting opinions on ReasonTalk can be a risky exercise. Much like the right-hand man of a despot may feel free to critique his leader, yet can never be certain that his words won't ultimately seal his fate.

To my knowledge, and I’m trying to be very inclusive here, there has never been a time that posting a “dissenting opinion” has posed any “risk” here. The mods often criticize Reason Studios, I do it all the time myself.
The rules are very simple here, and (hopefully) very clear - if not, please let us know.
We really don’t have time to run around being a despot and squashing opinions we don’t agree with, we barely have time to keep up with spam and bots. We (moderators) don’t even have “one opinion” between us we could possibly be pushing on the masses. I’m unclear where stuff like this is coming from, especially when posted generically and without examples.

But that is for another thread - anyone fearing a banana republic here can start a thread and post evidence so things can be properly addressed. Like I said earlier, if this forum ever got to that point I would bail in a second, as I’m sure most of the rest of you would also do.

[mimidancer]

That's an excellent point I hadn't considered before, that you can't morph between two unknown or empty parameters. Thus, to morph predictably between two synth engines you need either a fairly simple system that is based on identical engines (has the same exact preset routings possible in both engines), or is so advanced it's not even using a traditional interface (maybe something AI based?).
Ideally you need as many controls to be continuous (without steps) as possible for smooth transitions during morphing, so two separate mod matrixes would be right out!
Great observation.

The Arturia PolyBrute has Preset Morphing between A and B (like the Polytone)
Unlike the Polytone, it has a 12x8x8 Mod Matrix with up to 64 mod points and... it works.

But it looks like the Polytone aims at a quick'n'simple approach to sound designing so a ModMatrix might push that notion a bit too far, maybe.

Everything in reason has a mod matrix if you put it in a combinator.

[selig]

The Arturia PolyBrute has Preset Morphing between A and B (like the Polytone)
Unlike the Polytone, it has a 12x8x8 Mod Matrix with up to 64 mod points and... it works.

But it looks like the Polytone aims at a quick'n'simple approach to sound designing so a ModMatrix might push that notion a bit too far, maybe.

Everything in reason has a mod matrix if you put it in a combinator.

Reason IS a mod matrix…

[mimidancer]

Everything in reason has a mod matrix if you put it in a combinator.

Reason IS a mod matrix…

agree.

[Heigen5]

Everything in reason has a mod matrix if you put it in a combinator.

Reason IS a mod matrix…

Keanu Reeves lives in Matrix.. He's fighting against the "Reason sound"..

[Koshdukai]

The Arturia PolyBrute has Preset Morphing between A and B (like the Polytone)
Unlike the Polytone, it has a 12x8x8 Mod Matrix with up to 64 mod points and... it works.

But it looks like the Polytone aims at a quick'n'simple approach to sound designing so a ModMatrix might push that notion a bit too far, maybe.

Everything in reason has a mod matrix if you put it in a combinator.

I'm sure you know this but this isn't 100% true because internal modulations can be done at audio rate whereas "external" (CV & Automation) modulations only happen at 1/64th of the audio rate.

Also, most Automation based modulations (that's what the Combinator does) can't go beyond the exposed parameter limits whereas the internal ones can be additive to what the control has, thus allowing relative modulation which includes "excess" of the control limits.

[gullum]

well new users don't just get a new Synth and delay, the get everything from version 1 to 13

I said there's nothing game changing from 12 to 13 to persuade a new users to join. Nothing like when they added audio, or vst, or reason as a plugin. Something that would make the industry give a second look, or a wow factor

If at the moment you where looking for a daw, 12 would be as good of a choice as 13, of course 13 is a little better but nothing to make someone very exited

Basically , Reason 13 has small but good additions to existing users.

I know not every version can be a gamer changer, some are, Reason 13 is not.

anyone getting 12 not get free upgrade to 13 and no one is looking at what is new in the lkast version only if they previously don't have the daw but what it has as a final product

[mimidancer]

I said there's nothing game changing from 12 to 13 to persuade a new users to join. Nothing like when they added audio, or vst, or reason as a plugin. Something that would make the industry give a second look, or a wow factor

If at the moment you where looking for a daw, 12 would be as good of a choice as 13, of course 13 is a little better but nothing to make someone very exited

Basically , Reason 13 has small but good additions to existing users.

I know not every version can be a gamer changer, some are, Reason 13 is not.

anyone getting 12 not get free upgrade to 13 and no one is looking at what is new in the lkast version only if they previously don't have the daw but what it has as a final product

Software does not change the game. Musicians do.

[EnochLight]

anyone getting 12 not get free upgrade to 13 and no one is looking at what is new in the lkast version only if they previously don't have the daw but what it has as a final product

Software does not change the game. Musicians do.

What are your thoughts on the transition from Reason 11 to Reason 12? Worth it?

[mimidancer]

Software does not change the game. Musicians do.

What are your thoughts on the transition from Reason 11 to Reason 12? Worth it?

For sure. Combinator upgrade alone was amazing. I was also tired of looking at the less-than-HD graphics. Aside from Grain Mimic is my most used sampler now. Reason already has so much.

[mind2069]

anyone getting 12 not get free upgrade to 13 and no one is looking at what is new in the lkast version only if they previously don't have the daw but what it has as a final product

Software does not change the game. Musicians do.

Yeah right, go back to Reason 1 and show us how much a software doesn't change the "game", sure you can do good stuff with Reason 1 but ligth years better with reason 13. The human mind will have the same potential, but with better tool at it's disposal, there's a better chance of a greater results.