Reason 12.2.10 Release Notes

[avasopht]

They have had years to do it (VST3).

[selig]

You're not getting it. I don't think they're making fun of their customers, I think they're having a harder time implementing it than they expected, for whatever reason. Arriving at the latest in technology is bad news and it is usually for some reason.

I think they had a harder time with high rez then they expected. Obviously things are taking longer than expected, but how can either of us know for sure which issue caused the delay?

For me everything works fine as is, but I am aware there are new plugins recently released that are VST3 only (Ozone 10, for example, released in Sept). This is the first of the plugins I’m using that is VST3 only, and as I’m not ready to update it doesn’t directly affect me - yet! BUT, the writing is now on the wall, and the clock is ticking, etc. If they can make it by the end of the year, they should be OK, but every month after that risks more products only available as VST3 and thus more user frustration IMO.

[QVprod]

Well I don't think continuing complaining about something that hasn't yet reached its current roadmap timing is going to make things move any faster. Frustrations are understandable though as things start to shift to VST3 only but it's no different than the last few years in that regard. We already know they said by end of year. We're not quite there yet. Granted we are close.

Complaints are completely valid and warranted if the roadmap gets pushed back again though.

[Mataya]

People have to understand that most of other DAW's started as one thing and grew into the same "better" thing. Cubase 1 or rather Cubase VST was a midi sequencer with added audio record and editing and they just added and added features over time. Like VST, stretching etc. But it was always a multi track midi sequencer and an audio recorder editor. The concept and even the looks are kinda the same over all these years.
Reason 1 was not a version of Cubase VST or Digidesign Pro Tools. It was something that came up after ReBirth...extended, reinvented, expanded, but it was still a pattern based midi sequencer with built in virtual instruments and gear simulations.
When I opened Reason 1 for the first time, I was like, this is ReBirth 100.0. IT was all kinda familiar, yet new. Was ready to explore and they were updating their own environment with each new version and Cubase was updating their own environment with each new release. But they were initially very different, as they are now. They are trying to make into a DAW, comparable to other DAW's but to me it just seems like a mistake. If you ask me, they should of stayed with a separate program that's being developed like Cubase and other similar DAW's and continue developing Reason as a virtual studio rack. Remember Record? For me and the way I make music merging Record into Reason environment was just a mess. I don't need the "SSL" mixer, they should of just updated the RACK and expand the RE format, like we have now, thanks to RE developers. I don't even use sequencer that much. Here and there if I want to fix or adjust some automation.
I use Reason almost like Rebirth. Make the instruments play together and record and automate as much as needed...all from the rack. I don't play or record guitars, don't edit live drums, don't record soulful vocals...Reason was an electronic music machine and should of stayed that. If they just upgraded all the original devices and just added Rack Extensions, I would be a happy boy. Reason now is some sort of Frankenstein software that is a bit VCV rack, poor Cubase style midi audio editor and recorder, supports VST and Re's which are sometimes so much better then VST's, but at the same time most of producers don't even know they exist. I mean my friend, a FL studio guy doesn't know about Hexatone from ekssperimental sound or Lectric Panda's awesome stuff...it's kinda weird. You have a Big MIXER de attached from the rack and then you have mixers in the rack that connects to a "main" mixer and you have a main sequencer that does not have functions that other sequencers in the rack have. I understand the concept, but to explain it to a newcomer...much easier to explain how Pro Tools works.
To finish up, people are expecting it to be Cubase or Reaper and the core of Reason was never Cubase or Reaper. It's a wanna be Cubase or Logic now that will never be in my opinion and it should never be. It's like VCV now wants to implement all the Cubase features in a few years. Good luck. It's missing this feature from Reaper and it's missing that feature from Logic is what I'm reading often, which is crazy. Imagine Cubase and ProTools decide to make it more like Reason. Those forums would be filled with crazy people. I feel like everything from Reason is missing from Nuendo, each day I open it for my day job. Although it has lot's of the same features as Reason, but evveeerryything is just so different. I have 20 years of experience in Nunedo/Cubase and I've neeeveeer made a track in any of them.
Too bad Reason people have to struggle with a concept that was not in it's original design and concept maybe even a dream. It was such a different invention, reminded me only one one other software back then, called STORM, remeber that one? And then it went into sky compared to STORM. When I make house or techno or weird something electronic I go to my friend Reason...when I played with a band and they asked what will I use for recording them, I would neeeever say Reason, even now with it's 12 version. I went to Cubase and it was a blast to experience how easy it was to produce a few funk songs. I work in post for movies and shit, guess what I'm using or rather what I'm not using?
Hat's of to people that are using Reason for bands only and zero electronic experimenting, because I've heard some cool stuff, but I have a feeling those are the ones complaining the most. A question that proves that is "What are you missing from Reason12 or even better Reason 5, to produce an awesome instrumental deep house track?" I don't think anybody would complain, because you have all and more than you would ever need.
Now for the VST3 support, yeah it's a priority because of the market shift and you really should sort that thing out like you "promised" by the end of the year, but please after that, Split the Reason into two versions...one called "Reason I'm in a band" and the other one "Reason I'm not in a band". (nothing against bands of course...Ozric Tentacles my favorite.) And then see how much complaints the two versions have between. I can't remember anybody complaining back then. Just enjoying Reason.
Or maybe I'm just wrong about everything. Hope not.

Thanks
Mataya

[Faastwalker]

From my experience I'd say the new Minilab 3 codecs are missing too

Worked for me. Got one last week, updated Reason, all good here with the Minilab 3

[boggg1]

In case it helps someone I had to remove a number of files to get this to install, it locked at Reason.crt (the certificate) and then when that was moved and the installation restarted it stopped at Reason.key and then... etc., etc., etc. I've never had a problem with Reason installation before. The installation reinstalled the files I removed. Both the in-program update and the stand alone download behaved the same way.

[joeyluck]

In case it helps someone I had to remove a number of files to get this to install, it locked at Reason.crt (the certificate) and then when that was moved and the installation restarted it stopped at Reason.key and then... etc., etc., etc. I've never had a problem with Reason installation before. The installation reinstalled the files I removed. Both the in-program update and the stand alone download behaved the same way.

Seeing as this version addressed an update issue, hopefully it will go smoothly next time you update.

[miscend]

Do you think Reason will support the CLAP plugin standard within 20 years?

[futurewizard]

If you can't make music without VST3 you are using the wrong drum sticks

Totally agree. So much time is wasted on the little technical details that ultimately don't matter (my opinion). I've wasted a lot of time finding a VST to do it for me. There's art to being a Rackhacker who can outsmart limitations. There's always a way around it. Insert common "you don't need VST's speech". What's important to remember is that it takes a while to overhaul the VST system and update/rewrite code and update the RDK and blah blah blah... without compromising Reason's meticulous 'vibe'. I'm not trying to be snobby or anything, but there is a ton of engineering work that most users don't grasp. That includes reticulating every spline in Reason's robust qbasic-powered rar-based optical drive. Not to mention the proprietary Mavis Beacon algorithm for processing e1m2 wad files.

Cantible is free software (Windows) that can be combined with Voicemeeter (free) to process anything with VST3. It takes more work, but Reason users tend to be clever and dedicated.

I'm curious about specific scenarios where the lack of VST3 has hindered a workflow. Does anybody have an example? Bonus points if you can explain how you got around it.

[MrFigg]

It’s not a question of whether or not you can make make music without VST3. One of the features of R12 was supposed to be VST3 support and over a year after release it still hasn’t been implemented. That said, we’ll see. Hopefully they’ll get it together.

[Jackjackdaw]

I have Arturia compressors that in VST 3 can accept sidechain input. It’s a feature I have used in Cubase that doesn’t work in Reason. By the sounds of it though they probably won’t implement that even when VST 3 does come along.


I also have Halion 6 sampler , the audio input is via sidechain and I haven’t managed to sample with it in Reason.

[avasopht]

I have Arturia compressors that in VST 3 can accept sidechain input. It’s a feature I have used in Cubase that doesn’t work in Reason. By the sounds of it though they probably won’t implement that even when VST 3 does come along.


I also have Halion 6 sampler , the audio input is via sidechain and I haven’t managed to sample with it in Reason.

Sounds of what? I didn't notice them saying anything about not implementing sidechain ...

[Heater]

Hopefully we will some positive news from the Props this week relative to VST3 support etc...

[Jackjackdaw]

Not specifically but I got the impression from Mattias’ post that it’s going to be bare bones. I assumed that to mean it will load the the thing up and behave just like the VST 2. But that is just my interpretation.

[avasopht]

Not specifically but I got the impression from Mattias’ post that it’s going to be bare bones. I assumed that to mean it will load the the thing up and behave just like the VST 2. But that is just my interpretation.

Hmm ... he mentioned that MIDI out wasn't a priority for the initial release, but I suspect they might have changed their stance.

If the feature is already delayed a year, you might as well spend the extra week or month to allow for MIDI effects.

Looks like it'll be announced soon, so I don't think we'll have to guess for that much longer

[Heater]

If the feature is already delayed a year, you might as well spend the extra week or month to allow for MIDI effects.

I'd sooner they release and add features later.

[miscend]

I have Arturia compressors that in VST 3 can accept sidechain input. It’s a feature I have used in Cubase that doesn’t work in Reason. By the sounds of it though they probably won’t implement that even when VST 3 does come along.


I also have Halion 6 sampler , the audio input is via sidechain and I haven’t managed to sample with it in Reason.

There's no reason for VST2 plugins not to have side chaining. I would contact Arturia's support channels.

[joeyluck]

I have Arturia compressors that in VST 3 can accept sidechain input. It’s a feature I have used in Cubase that doesn’t work in Reason. By the sounds of it though they probably won’t implement that even when VST 3 does come along.


I also have Halion 6 sampler , the audio input is via sidechain and I haven’t managed to sample with it in Reason.

I just tested Arturia's Comp FET-76 (VST2) in 12.2.10 and sidechaining works.

- I routed audio to inputs 3&4 of the VST proxy device.
- On the FET-76 plugin, I clicked the Advanced tab and then for Sidechaining I switched it to external.

What Arturia compressors are you using?

[moneykube]

ok ( jumps on the boat ) I "had" decided to install 12.2.9... but now today I see 12.2.10 as a download... do I have to download the 12.2.10 download or will the reason 12 package ( downloaded when purchased) >created may 6, 2022> install and then just tell me of the update, and would that update be 5 gb like this install of 12.2.10, that I am currently downloading? This download is taking a loooong time.
One last question for collaborations, rewire and such... will this update affect the reason 10, and 11 suite I currently have authorized on my machine?

[Arpeg]

ok ( jumps on the boat ) I "had" decided to install 12.2.9... but now today I see 12.2.10 as a download... do I have to download the 12.2.10 download or will the reason 12 package ( downloaded when purchased) >created may 6, 2022> install and then just tell me of the update, and would that update be 5 gb like this install of 12.2.10, that I am currently downloading? This download is taking a loooong time.
One last question for collaborations, rewire and such... will this update affect the reason 10, and 11 suite I currently have authorized on my machine?

12.2.10 update is 1.5 gb or every update is 1.5 gb. If you tether via a 4G/5G phone and D/L anything between the times of 3pm to 6pm the 1.5 gb update D/L may struggle to finalise. This happens with me sometimes but later on in the evening, say 9pm, the D/L will go swimmingly.

How come you mention 5 gb? I forget if this is for the initial full D/L of Reason itself

Everything in Suite like your VSTs and REs for example will just move to R12, no problem. I still have my .exe for both R10 and R11 Suite if I wish to start them up and continue any old projects. Saying that I have a 2.5 somewhere. Anyway, this may or may not show up online on the Reason website. It may just state your previous versions but you can certainly start up a previous version that is on your computer, no problem.

[moneykube]

How come you mention 5 gb? I forget if this is for the initial full D/L of Reason itself

It must be the full download as the download ended up to be 5.53 GB... just woke up... went to sleep while it downloaded.
It is good to know the updates are not this size each time, and that I can keep all 3 reason versions on my system for a time.
Thank you for your response !

[pquenin]

I have desintalled Reason 11 yesterday, because I was happy with R12 since the last updates.
Everything was fine with Reason 12 yesterday, but today R12 won't start, i just see the splash screen, it disappears, and nothing...
Have any of you experienced the same thing ?

[Baylo]

I'm not on the current version, but I have had experiences with R11 where Reason won't reopen after I've closed a session. It's usually because there's some Reason-related service still running in the background that seems to convince the PC that reason is already running. Going to task manager and force quitting all Reason services and then trying again usually works.

[Arpeg]

How come you mention 5 gb? I forget if this is for the initial full D/L of Reason itself

It must be the full download as the download ended up to be 5.53 GB... just woke up... went to sleep while it downloaded.
It is good to know the updates are not this size each time, and that I can keep all 3 reason versions on my system for a time.
Thank you for your response !

Ahh 5.53 gb, roger that. Download time is a good time to take a nap, nice one

Easy