Seconded. Europa is the first synth I've loved. We just clicked (and whined and screeched and warbled).TritoneAddiction wrote: ↑24 Sep 2022As someone who has recently started my own patch making and has gone through a couple of synths at this point, I would start with Europa. It's pretty easy to use and easy to understand. GUI is very straight forward. It's very rewarding to work with. Just because it's deeper than some of the more basic synth, doesn't mean it's harder to use. You'll be able to get way more sounds out of that thing with less effort. And having the effect and unison section at hand will also be more encouraging when making patches compared to having a completely "dry" synth to work with.
It really is a great all rounder synth. It's Reason Studios when they're at their best. Simple yet has depth.
I really, really should learn how to program synths.
- integerpoet
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- mimidancer
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send me a message like I want a sound like the blank on the blank song. I'll make it for you then tell you how and what I did.... I'm sure you don't really need help, but if you do ask.MrFigg wrote: ↑24 Sep 2022Sometimes I'm sitting here and recording tunes and I've done the bass and guitar and the drums and a bit of chords on a Rhodes or whatever comes to hand, and I hear the sound in my head that I want to have for a lead melody. What happens next is just soul destroying. Out with a synth and run through a load of presets, out with a random refill and run through a load of patches. Finally find something that sort of approximates what I'm looking for but doesn't really give me joy. So... I guess I really should learn how to twiddle the knobs and slide the sliders. It's all just so much easier with a guitar and pedals. Plug and play. But I'm going to have to...sometime.
- mimidancer
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I love europa too...it is quite eurorack-ee.integerpoet wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022Seconded. Europa is the first synth I've loved. We just clicked (and whined and screeched and warbled).TritoneAddiction wrote: ↑24 Sep 2022As someone who has recently started my own patch making and has gone through a couple of synths at this point, I would start with Europa. It's pretty easy to use and easy to understand. GUI is very straight forward. It's very rewarding to work with. Just because it's deeper than some of the more basic synth, doesn't mean it's harder to use. You'll be able to get way more sounds out of that thing with less effort. And having the effect and unison section at hand will also be more encouraging when making patches compared to having a completely "dry" synth to work with.
It really is a great all rounder synth. It's Reason Studios when they're at their best. Simple yet has depth.
- platzangst
- Posts: 728
- Joined: 16 Jan 2015
I learned how to use an ARP 2600 in the 80s. Later, when I began publicly releasing "music" in the early 90s, I chucked all that knowledge aside by using a sampler.
That's right, cheat! Find a sound that resembles what you want and copy it directly.
(Just sort-of kidding. Although it didn't hurt that my approach to composition at the time was "this noise I've stumbled upon sounds interesting, now what can I do with it?")
That's right, cheat! Find a sound that resembles what you want and copy it directly.
(Just sort-of kidding. Although it didn't hurt that my approach to composition at the time was "this noise I've stumbled upon sounds interesting, now what can I do with it?")
Absolutely agree with those saying pick a synth and learn it well. And I’ll second going with Europa, it can produce classic fat sounds and/or modern evolving sounds plus the UI is very straightforward.
Software: Reason 12 + Objekt, Vintage Vault 4, V-Collection 9 + Pigments, Vintage Verb + Supermassive
Hardware: M1 Mac mini + dual monitors, Launchkey 61, Scarlett 18i20, Rokit 6 monitors, AT4040 mic, DT-990 Pro phones
Hardware: M1 Mac mini + dual monitors, Launchkey 61, Scarlett 18i20, Rokit 6 monitors, AT4040 mic, DT-990 Pro phones
Reverse engineering presets is the way to go
Either you end up nailing the preset and learning how it was made, or you get distracted halfway through the process and come up with your own killer patch. It's win-win
Either you end up nailing the preset and learning how it was made, or you get distracted halfway through the process and come up with your own killer patch. It's win-win
- crimsonwarlock
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Actually… I pre-ordered my DX7 after seeing the Dave Bristow demo tour. My DX7 was one of the first 300 that got shipped here, and I did learn it well. After attending an FM synthesis workshop at the Rotterdam Conservatory, the DX7 really opened up for me. Because of this, the PX-7 is one of my absolute favorite Rack Extensions. All the synthesis power of the DX7, but with all parameters directly available without the need for menu-diving. I also have Algoritm, but the real power of the DX lies in the multi-stage envelopes and the keyboard scaling curves, which Algoritm doesn't have.
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Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
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Impressive! That FM workshop sounds really interesting. It's a shame the PX-7 isn't available anymore (for new users that is).crimsonwarlock wrote: ↑27 Sep 2022Actually… I pre-ordered my DX7 after seeing the Dave Bristow demo tour. My DX7 was one of the first 300 that got shipped here, and I did learn it well. After attending an FM synthesis workshop at the Rotterdam Conservatory, the DX7 really opened up for me. Because of this, the PX-7 is one of my absolute favorite Rack Extensions. All the synthesis power of the DX7, but with all parameters directly available without the need for menu-diving. I also have Algoritm, but the real power of the DX lies in the multi-stage envelopes and the keyboard scaling curves, which Algoritm doesn't have.
- crimsonwarlock
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I just dug up the course documentation. It was a lot of theory about frequencies and how they interact with each other, with a lot of FFT-graphs and stuff like that. The second part of the course goes into specific DX7 sounds and analyses how they are built. All in Dutch, by the way. But it was the teacher who made it all understandable.
Indeed. There is currently no RE that can actually replace PX-7. Even Zero doesn't have the keyboard scaling curves per operator (afaik, I don't have Zero....... yet ).RandomSkratch wrote: ↑27 Sep 2022It's a shame the PX-7 isn't available anymore (for new users that is).
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Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
I got a DX7 Mk1 recently and it's the most gorgeous sounding thing I've ever played.crimsonwarlock wrote: ↑27 Sep 2022I just dug up the course documentation. It was a lot of theory about frequencies and how they interact with each other, with a lot of FFT-graphs and stuff like that. The second part of the course goes into specific DX7 sounds and analyses how they are built. All in Dutch, by the way. But it was the teacher who made it all understandable.
Indeed. There is currently no RE that can actually replace PX-7. Even Zero doesn't have the keyboard scaling curves per operator (afaik, I don't have Zero....... yet ).RandomSkratch wrote: ↑27 Sep 2022It's a shame the PX-7 isn't available anymore (for new users that is).
- crimsonwarlock
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I sold my DX7 (obviously a Mk1) after having owned for about 25 years, when I went completely software based. I replaced it back then with NI's FM7, which did come pretty close as well. However, to me, PX-7 is more authentic to the actual DX7. I was so happy to be able to pick it up just before hey discontinued it, and at a discount even. I do miss the DX7 keybed, however, as that was/is pretty wonderful as well.
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Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
- Propellerhands
- Posts: 217
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Don't know how professionals work but when I do "sound design" I rarely have any idea in my mind what kind of sound I want or even if I do, eventually I create something else than imagined. And it sounds better than initial idea (if I had one to begin with.)MrFigg wrote: ↑24 Sep 2022Sometimes I'm sitting here and recording tunes and I've done the bass and guitar and the drums and a bit of chords on a Rhodes or whatever comes to hand, and I hear the sound in my head that I want to have for a lead melody. What happens next is just soul destroying. Out with a synth and run through a load of presets, out with a random refill and run through a load of patches. Finally find something that sort of approximates what I'm looking for but doesn't really give me joy. So... I guess I really should learn how to twiddle the knobs and slide the sliders. It's all just so much easier with a guitar and pedals. Plug and play. But I'm going to have to...sometime.
Presets can sometimes get you on a right track but I rarely find fitting one. And if I do, I am reluctant to use it. However, when I am lazy or too focused, I just don't care and use whatever sounds good for that particular track. I myself know only the basics, so my own presets/sounds are very simple and with almost none modulation. Usually just vibrato/detune and I call it a day
I can't imagine doing it on hardware, too much hassle. Never was a fan of real synthesizers. But maybe that's because I never had one.
Starting point and an end. Because nothing beats Subtractors workflow wise. It's just fast and simple.huggermugger wrote: ↑24 Sep 2022Not sure what level you're at, but Subtractor is a great starting point. It's got all the basics.
"Shut the fuck up and use the software. It's great." - stillifegaijin on Reason
This is pretty neat site for anyone who wants to learn the basics:
https://learningsynths.ableton.com
https://learningsynths.ableton.com
Haha The first proper synth I learned to program (if I exclude a basic subtractive synth I build myself and the Commodore 64 SID chip) was a Yamaha CX5M music computer.
The CX5M had 4 operator FM synthesis. I actually found it pretty easy because I was young, it was all I had, I spent so much money on it that I was heavily invested in getting the most out of it, etc. Nothing like focus and lack of distractions to help learn! FM synthesis isn't as hard as people claim, once you become familiar with the tone you get with different modulator-carrier ratios.
As for the Cheetah MS800, I'd never heard of it, looked it up -- see what you mean!!!
https://www.vintagesynth.com/cheetah/ms800
I’ll add my agreement with Europa since it’s so flexible and easy to do understand. You can increase the complexity of your patches the more you get familiar with it.
- crimsonwarlock
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I would even say that learning FM synthesis gives you a much more in-depth understanding of how sound characteristics are working. I started out with analog subtractive synthesis (I built my first synthesizer myself), but the DX7 gave me a much better insight into sound construction, which carried over to every other synthesis method.
When you master FM synthesis, subtractive synthesis is pretty easy (and somewhat limited) in comparison. Although, subtractive has its own strengths and nuances.
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Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
That's a really great point. I'd never considered that but yeah, learning about waveforms really has been a great foundation for the learning process.crimsonwarlock wrote: ↑28 Sep 2022I would even say that learning FM synthesis gives you a much more in-depth understanding of how sound characteristics are working. I started out with analog subtractive synthesis (I built my first synthesizer myself), but the DX7 gave me a much better insight into sound construction, which carried over to every other synthesis method.
When you master FM synthesis, subtractive synthesis is pretty easy (and somewhat limited) in comparison. Although, subtractive has its own strengths and nuances.
Enjoyed reading your comments on PX7. I've never owned a real DX7 so I was wondering what was close out of the various software emulations. Do you have a view on Dexed or Arturia DX7V (versus PX7)?
- crimsonwarlock
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Before moving to Reason (after more than a decade of using Reaper), I was using Dexed. I would say it is on par with PX-7, but the UI of Dexed is a bit cramped and it is, of course, not a Rack Extension. If you don't have PX-7, then Dexed is a great free alternative.
I don't have the Arturia DX7V. Somehow, the Arturia stuff never really appealed to me. I've heard they are getting better, though.
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Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
- crimsonwarlock
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Just found this video which shows how powerful FM synthesis is. Creating the famous Bladerunner intro sound on Dexed with only two of the six operators. In the process, it also shows how easy FM can be.
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Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
I remember asking about learning how to Synth in here too a while back. This thread reminded me I need to get back to my synth education. I tend to go all the way to the basic basics and started studying Hertz fundamentals and harmonics which helped me understand wave forms, pitch and what happens when you start wiggling and deforming a sine wave. It's the filters I'm slowly getting to understand.
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