Not an Ableton user personally so I'd be interested in an open discussion for the pros and cons from other users and I'm hoping it doesn't go south like the last video
![Thinking :think:](./images/smilies/icon_think.gif)
Is it? I'm genuinely curious.
You could also take a look at Bitwig instead/additionally as I think it is the better match for Reason, now.platzangst wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022Granted, this was when Reason was back on version 3 or so, and Ableton would have been in a correspondingly earlier version, so it's quite possible that Ableton Live has improved itself since then. I keep meaning to go back and re-demo Ableton to see if I can grok it better with a bit more DAW experience under my belt, but it's really a low priority compared to working with things I know already, so... I haven't.
it is super easy to get going in, provided you start learning it in Arrangement view. the first two (or three) times I tried Live, I gave up within the first hour because I was trying to work in Session view, and that I do find very difficult to use, even still. once I realized you can avoid using it almost entirely, Live became much easier to grasp.platzangst wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022Is it? I'm genuinely curious.
One of the reasons I started with Reason (heh) was back in the day, when I was first starting out in digital music and trying to work out which DAW I was going to use, I demoed a bunch of the stuff available at the time, and Ableton was inscrutable to me. I couldn't wrap my head around it - whereas I nearly instantly figured out Reason's system for doing things.
Granted, this was when Reason was back on version 3 or so, and Ableton would have been in a correspondingly earlier version, so it's quite possible that Ableton Live has improved itself since then. I keep meaning to go back and re-demo Ableton to see if I can grok it better with a bit more DAW experience under my belt, but it's really a low priority compared to working with things I know already, so... I haven't.
Strange thing is that for me, Session view is one of the things I love most about Live not least because Session view with Push 2 is fantastic. Session view just clicked from day one when I first began using Live (around v2 or v3 from memory… a long time ago).guitfnky wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022it is super easy to get going in, provided you start learning it in Arrangement view. the first two (or three) times I tried Live, I gave up within the first hour because I was trying to work in Session view, and that I do find very difficult to use, even still. once I realized you can avoid using it almost entirely, Live became much easier to grasp.platzangst wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022
Is it? I'm genuinely curious.
One of the reasons I started with Reason (heh) was back in the day, when I was first starting out in digital music and trying to work out which DAW I was going to use, I demoed a bunch of the stuff available at the time, and Ableton was inscrutable to me. I couldn't wrap my head around it - whereas I nearly instantly figured out Reason's system for doing things.
Granted, this was when Reason was back on version 3 or so, and Ableton would have been in a correspondingly earlier version, so it's quite possible that Ableton Live has improved itself since then. I keep meaning to go back and re-demo Ableton to see if I can grok it better with a bit more DAW experience under my belt, but it's really a low priority compared to working with things I know already, so... I haven't.
I have often wondered about getting a push 2 but it is fairly expensive for me. Does it fully integrate and allow you to fully control live and how do the pads work when composing melodies (how do you know where c or f is etc). I don't know anyone who owns one so have not ever had chance to use it and understand.MuttReason wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022Strange thing is that for me, Session view is one of the things I love most about Live not least because Session view with Push 2 is fantastic. Session view just clicked from day one when I first began using Live (around v2 or v3 from memory… a long time ago).guitfnky wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022
it is super easy to get going in, provided you start learning it in Arrangement view. the first two (or three) times I tried Live, I gave up within the first hour because I was trying to work in Session view, and that I do find very difficult to use, even still. once I realized you can avoid using it almost entirely, Live became much easier to grasp.
I am much less keen on Arrangement view… really dislike the track info pane on the right (why can’t it be on the left like every other DAW ever made?) and I strongly prefer Reason DAW layout for linear composition.
Most of what I write starts off as either a bunch of clip ideas in Session view that then start to come together into an arrangement as I play in clips ‘live’ while recording… or I sketch ideas in Reason DAW when I’m travelling and on laptop only and then export loops as audio into Live.
I'm guessing she meant monophonic. Easy (ish) to make missed steak.PhillipOrdonez wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022Yeah I didn't get that either
The physical modelling explanation could have been worded better too.
I didn't watch her video, but I do own both Ableton Live 11 Suite as well as Reason 12+. I've been a Reasoner for 20+ years, and ended up grabbing Live 11 last year when Reason's performance issues (at the time) were causing me a lot of grief on my older PC. But it didn't take a lot to push me to pick up Live 11, as I am also an Akai Force user - which is pretty much a standalone Ableton Push. I really enjoy the Clip-based production approach as it speaks to my style of writing (this is called Session View in Live). This is something that has always been missing in Reason, and while I do use Blocks, I prefer Live's Session View approach. So for me, that's Live 11's biggest draw.
Created by man to control people and fill the void that natural philosophy cannot?
Push2 is fully integrated with Live. It’s a super powerful bit of kit, miles ahead of any other DAW controller. It is at its most effective in Session view IME but still offers a bunch of controls in Arrangement view. The ability to control any device using hardware rotary controls with visual feedback on the Push2 display is outstanding. The pads are also really good, easily in the top 3 in the market alongside Maschine and MPC.Popey wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022I have often wondered about getting a push 2 but it is fairly expensive for me. Does it fully integrate and allow you to fully control live and how do the pads work when composing melodies (how do you know where c or f is etc). I don't know anyone who owns one so have not ever had chance to use it and understand.MuttReason wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022
Strange thing is that for me, Session view is one of the things I love most about Live not least because Session view with Push 2 is fantastic. Session view just clicked from day one when I first began using Live (around v2 or v3 from memory… a long time ago).
I am much less keen on Arrangement view… really dislike the track info pane on the right (why can’t it be on the left like every other DAW ever made?) and I strongly prefer Reason DAW layout for linear composition.
Most of what I write starts off as either a bunch of clip ideas in Session view that then start to come together into an arrangement as I play in clips ‘live’ while recording… or I sketch ideas in Reason DAW when I’m travelling and on laptop only and then export loops as audio into Live.
I wonder how much the pads on Push 2 are alike (or not alike) the original Push? I know Akai made the original Push for Ableton, but then Ableton brought the design in-house for Push 2. The pads on Akai's Force are incredible - probably some of the best I've worked on.MuttReason wrote: ↑20 Jul 2022The pads are also really good, easily in the top 3 in the market alongside Maschine and MPC.
I’ve not used a Push1 before so don’t know how they compare. But FWIW I also have a MPC Live 2 Retro and the feel and responsiveness of the Push2 pads is easily up there with the MPC pads. Main difference in use is the Push2 pads are smaller than the MPC Live 2, although that’s no big deal for me as I’m a rubbish finger drummer anyway.EnochLight wrote: ↑20 Jul 2022I wonder how much the pads on Push 2 are alike (or not alike) the original Push? I know Akai made the original Push for Ableton, but then Ableton brought the design in-house for Push 2. The pads on Akai's Force are incredible - probably some of the best I've worked on.MuttReason wrote: ↑20 Jul 2022The pads are also really good, easily in the top 3 in the market alongside Maschine and MPC.
Thanks for the info really handy to know. I watched a few videos on you tube and was surprised how versatile the display was and most things seemed to be easy to understand. Maybe a bit of a learning curve early on perhaps with the modes (clip, device) etc but it would definitely be a massive upgrade on my 25 key midi keyboard. Worth saving for me thinksMuttReason wrote: ↑20 Jul 2022Push2 is fully integrated with Live. It’s a super powerful bit of kit, miles ahead of any other DAW controller. It is at its most effective in Session view IME but still offers a bunch of controls in Arrangement view. The ability to control any device using hardware rotary controls with visual feedback on the Push2 display is outstanding. The pads are also really good, easily in the top 3 in the market alongside Maschine and MPC.Popey wrote: ↑19 Jul 2022
I have often wondered about getting a push 2 but it is fairly expensive for me. Does it fully integrate and allow you to fully control live and how do the pads work when composing melodies (how do you know where c or f is etc). I don't know anyone who owns one so have not ever had chance to use it and understand.
You can’t control absolutely everything in Live from a Push (eg you still need mouse and keyboard to edit the content of clips for example) but you can do quite a lot with it without even looking at the computer screen.
I’m a big fan of creating complex Combi 2 devices in the RRP and then mapping the controls to the Live 11 macro controls which are then automatically mapped to the Push2. You can have up to 16 macros mapped like that which turns any Combi 2 into a monster performance beast with 16 hands-on controls (ie the 8 x Push2 rotaries with a bank button to access the second bank of 8 controls). You can do the same thing with any Reason device BTW, assigning a knob/fader/button on any device to a Live macro is v simple and fast. For example, I’ve mapped the most important 16 controls on The Legend RE to the Push2 rotaries… so easy to create Moog-ish sounds from scratch using just the rotary controls.
Melodies and chords are pretty simple, you use the Scale button to select a key and scale or mode, then the pads will map to that scale or mode with root notes highlighted in a different colour. There are YT vids of people playing amazingly intricate piano solos on Push2 which will give you an idea of what it can do.
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