Reason Studios needs to release a statement on the future of the DAW.

[avasopht]

What I'd simply like to know is how much of the proposed R12 roadmap is actually going to be delivered? Yes, it was stated it was a plan and not a promise, but I was made to feel that if the plan was going to change it was going to be prioritisation of alternative features, not the wholesale postponement of advancements/features to tackle defects. I paid for my upgrade on the basis of this misinterpreted premise.

It seemed to me the roadmap was meant to be an attempt to reach out to the Reason user base with some clarity and honesty about future development. Initially, it genuinely looked to be the case. I must admit, I personally feel pretty let down by the communication here, as with what has happened since (price bumps, features on the roadmap pushed, very few items mentioned actually completed, vast numbers of issues still to be fixed), it has me thinking the roadmap was there cynically to rope in buyers for the initial buggy 12 release.

I've begun to discount what RS say, and instead look at what they do, and how they act, as the two are fundamentally different. The growing distinction between what they say and what they do has begun to sow serious mistrust in this company for me.

Software development is a bajillion times more complex than most people imagine, that's all that's at play here.

There's a 0% chance they're merely refusing to develop features. They have finite time, and what might look like a simple button to you may involve more complexity than the entirety of your total lived experience.

And as complex as software development can be, the one thing that is vastly more complex and elusive than that is time estimation.

It's why they stopped roadmaps, because as soon as they had to adjust course they were met with a barrage of complaints, tantrums, accusations and kicking and screaming.

They've got to fix bugs, and those bugs are hard as hell to track because they're not happening to most users.

That this is all one is bothered with, it's worth considering how many billions would risk life and limb (literally) for that to be their only concern.

Relax. Chill.

Yes, I'm disappointed with their release, but once the bugs are ironed out they'll be back to doing what made you start using Reason

[Eprom]

Yes, I'm disappointed with their release, but once the bugs are ironed out they'll be back to doing what made you start using Reason

When I started using Reason back in 2001 it was a completely different company. So I'll believe it when I see it.

[Tweak]

Software development is a bajillion times more complex than most people imagine, that's all that's at play here.

There's a 0% chance they're merely refusing to develop features. They have finite time, and what might look like a simple button to you may involve more complexity than the entirety of your total lived experience.

And as complex as software development can be, the one thing that is vastly more complex and elusive than that is time estimation.

It's why they stopped roadmaps, because as soon as they had to adjust course they were met with a barrage of complaints, tantrums, accusations and kicking and screaming.

They've got to fix bugs, and those bugs are hard as hell to track because they're not happening to most users.

That this is all one is bothered with, it's worth considering how many billions would risk life and limb (literally) for that to be their only concern.

Relax. Chill.

Yes, I'm disappointed with their release, but once the bugs are ironed out they'll be back to doing what made you start using Reason

I'm aware of how software development for desktop applications works, I've been working doing this professionally at a high level for 20 years now. I'm also totally chilled and relaxed, just cynical, suspicious and capable of identifying insincerity in this company's communications to us. I'm sure they'll get on to doing features again, but I continue to have concerns about the quality of software they're willing to release. If there are not improvements in this area I fail to see how they'll be able to capture part of what made me originally (and I suspect many others) buy into Reason - it's stability and performance.

[avasopht]

I'm aware of how software development for desktop applications works, I've been working doing this professionally at a high level for 20 years now.

But you seemed to criticize "wholesale postponement of advancements/features to tackle defects".

Being a software developer of 20 years, you should know why a bug that makes the software 100% unusable for some users, but also could be a problem for more users (or a different set of users) in the next release because of the nature of the type of bug being observed would take priority.

There's a reasonable chance that upper management has had some input in the roadmap (even if it's merely nudging developers to give more optimistic estimations during meetings). As a software developer, you should have known the roadmap was subject to change for obvious reasons.

I was very quick to suggest we were likely going to have to wait until at least January/February for a production-ready release, which now is looking like even I was a little too optimistic. But that's why I've not bought R12 or R+, nor am I recommending it to anyone I know just in case they get hit by it.

I have a singer asking for recommendations, and although all the music I did for her was in Reason, I just couldn't recommend it to her. Luckily she's not been hit by the bugs. I'd hate to have put her off of Reason because she would have been pissed!

Anyway, I also have concerns about the quality of the release as well as them continuing to market it as a completed product after being made aware of these bugs. I understand why they might be motivated to release anyway (cash flow), but I think they'd have come out much better by being upfront at the point of sale (or something).

Even without the critical bugs, it still was not a production-ready release. Scaling was not complete, for a start. Plus there are serious usability issues with what users are having to do to correct some of the caching issues.

Either way, as a software developer, you should also know why items might be removed from a roadmap for good reasons (maybe it turned out to be a bad idea after prototyping it). And I'm sure you would expect some features and R&D to not be on the roadmap (especially the more experimental stuff).

That's why I'm just taking a backseat with this version.

I'll buy it when it's stable. But I can understand how frustrating it is when you've already purchased it, so don't take what I'm saying the wrong way. I get where you're coming from completely.

[moofi]

Imagine Reason already had all the features everybody is asking for. No more Reasons to complain, how terrifying of a situation that might be

[MrFigg]

Imagine R12 was debugged. Living for today.

[orthodox]

Imagine R12 was debugged. Living for today.

Life in peace.

[Creativemind]

If your main focus is making music you should get the tool that serves your purposes. Why wait for a company to change their ways to suit yours? I know it’s disappointing but it is what it is and I doubt they’ll rectify their ways. The grass IS greener.

Lots of Reasons, the biggest one is you like the software and probably feel the most creative and inspired in it. Also because it's the software you're most familiar with and learning a whole new daw is a daunting prospect perhaps? Also you like Reason's GUI and it's main concept, which is the rack. Also simply because you want to support the company but then all it's shortfalls annoy and frustrated you. It may be that one particular person only longs for a few implementations such as track folders, vst 3 support, time markers and midi chase and they'd be happy. For me personally, I couldn't see myself working solely in Reason again without at least 30 workflow additions.

[Creativemind]

The sequencer was also listed as "under investigation" in the first roadmap. and while it wasn't mentioned In the second roadmap; "Tight integration with other DAWs" was also left out as well as "Immediate musical results. Perhaps they're done investigating.... Who knows. Things take time to implement

I find that roadmap change about workflow additions a bit sneaky. Did they put that on the first roadmap to stop the barrage of "where are the workflow additions?" that would've happened and to silence that but had no intention of doing it? that's why no specific workflow additions were mentioned.

[moofi]

To find that change a bit sneaky, at least in the way you described it afterwards, you would first have to know why they actually did it, otherwise it´s mere assumption.

Not saying it cannot be that way, just poiting out.

The sequencer was also listed as "under investigation" in the first roadmap. and while it wasn't mentioned In the second roadmap; "Tight integration with other DAWs" was also left out as well as "Immediate musical results. Perhaps they're done investigating.... Who knows. Things take time to implement

I find that roadmap change about workflow additions a bit sneaky. Did they put that on the first roadmap to stop the barrage of "where are the workflow additions?" that would've happened and to silence that but had no intention of doing it? that's why no specific workflow additions were mentioned.

[joeyluck]

I find that roadmap change about workflow additions a bit sneaky. Did they put that on the first roadmap to stop the barrage of "where are the workflow additions?" that would've happened and to silence that but had no intention of doing it? that's why no specific workflow additions were mentioned.

No, we know they have a ton of requests and I suspect they are considering many of them and have many ideas. Whatever workflow improvements they work on, they likely wouldn't start until other things on the roadmap are done (or closer to done), so no need to settle on what it is just yet...

When you look at what is actually on the roadmap, it is mostly just necessary things (M1 support and VST3 support). What is under investigation is all the fun stuff.

And when you look at "workflow improvements" under "immediate musical results" they say "Reason can take many roles, but we believe it's strength is getting ideas going quickly. We're investigating improvements to the current workflow, sequencer, and more." To me that does sound like they are giving it more thought than just adding some basic sequencer features.

R11 introduced more features and improvements to the sequencer than most other versions of Reason, but somehow people still said they ignored the sequencer... I think they recognize that and now maybe they are looking to do something more exciting and innovative perhaps?

[KGB]

When I started using Reason back in 2001 it was a completely different company. So I'll believe it when I see it.

I kind of agree that it was completely different. My thoughts are that Ernst always had a mindset of not wanting to innovate the DAW. He had a Steve Jobs type approach of closing the environment (no vst support for years and years), creating a self contained ecosystem (Alihoopa), an App Store (RE Shop), mobile experiences (Reason mobile), non-existent transparency (no news until releases), etc.

This is who I always have blamed for the stagnation of Reasons growth. That aside, since version 9.5 (only THREE versions ago), and since Ernst has left the CEO seat, the company has done so many things and has improved A LOT in the Reason ecosystem. I know there are still more things that need to be done, they will be done in time. They are dealing with a buggy software release that needs to be ironed out. M1 and VST3 are going to be huge performance enhancements. For me, Reason workflow isn’t a hindrance because I’m used to it and I get things done. I’m still having fun and that’s the best thing. Reason always moved to the beat of its own drum and they already know people are frustrated with the sequencer. I think Reason Studios are more transparent and are working on a solution, whereas Ernst and Propellerhead would just dismiss the concerns and tell us to appreciate what we have. I’m way more confident in Reason Studios and I like the direction that they are headed in. One thing is for sure, not everyone will be satisfied and that’s ok. You have options with RPP. That’s a GOOD thing..idk why people are complaining about RPP and the resources taken from RPP development that could be used on the DAW, etc. You don’t know the inner workings of the company…they are giving the people great options. The rack is the HEART of Reason. It’s the uniqueness. If you think the mixer and sequencer are subpar and you like the workflow of Live, you still have Reason right there with you. How is this a bad thing?? I hate all other DAW UIs personally, but I appreciate the fact that I could still have Reason if anything was to happen and the DAW got abandoned, which I HIGHLY doubt would happen regardless of whatever Venture Capitalist take over in the future (if need be). If Reason goes down, the whole ship is going down. Yet they stated that their recent sales have been some of their best numbers ever, so why is there concern that the company is sinking?

/rant

[Eprom]

When I started using Reason back in 2001 it was a completely different company. So I'll believe it when I see it.

I kind of agree that it was completely different. My thoughts are that Ernst always had a mindset of not wanting to innovate the DAW. He had a Steve Jobs type approach of closing the environment (no vst support for years and years), creating a self contained ecosystem (Alihoopa), an App Store (RE Shop), mobile experiences (Reason mobile), non-existent transparency (no news until releases), etc.

This is who I always have blamed for the stagnation of Reasons growth. That aside, since version 9.5 (only THREE versions ago), and since Ernst has left the CEO seat, the company has done so many things and has improved A LOT in the Reason ecosystem. I know there are still more things that need to be done, they will be done in time. They are dealing with a buggy software release that needs to be ironed out. M1 and VST3 are going to be huge performance enhancements. For me, Reason workflow isn’t a hindrance because I’m used to it and I get things done. I’m still having fun and that’s the best thing. Reason always moved to the beat of its own drum and they already know people are frustrated with the sequencer. I think Reason Studios are more transparent and are working on a solution, whereas Ernst and Propellerhead would just dismiss the concerns and tell us to appreciate what we have. I’m way more confident in Reason Studios and I like the direction that they are headed in. One thing is for sure, not everyone will be satisfied and that’s ok. You have options with RPP. That’s a GOOD thing..idk why people are complaining about RPP and the resources taken from RPP development that could be used on the DAW, etc. You don’t know the inner workings of the company…they are giving the people great options. The rack is the HEART of Reason. It’s the uniqueness. If you think the mixer and sequencer are subpar and you like the workflow of Live, you still have Reason right there with you. How is this a bad thing?? I hate all other DAW UIs personally, but I appreciate the fact that I could still have Reason if anything was to happen and the DAW got abandoned, which I HIGHLY doubt would happen regardless of whatever Venture Capitalist take over in the future (if need be). If Reason goes down, the whole ship is going down. Yet they stated that their recent sales have been some of their best numbers ever, so why is there concern that the company is sinking?

/rant

As far as I remember from back then is that Steinberg (who had an interest in Propellerheads) had something to do with the lack of certain features in the early versions and especially the ability to record audio tracks, because Steinberg didn't want Reason to become a competitor to Cubase. (please correct me if i'm wrong)

[plaamook]

Btw.. This was true at one point in time but I think we can put this to rest. It's now at the top of the homepage.

Screen Shot 2022-01-27 at 5.59.39 PM.png

Oh that's what that is.
Boy, that's really obvious...

[bangaio]

Steinberg stopped distributing props software around when reason first came out.

Back then the props were super open about their plans, how development was going and what they were up to .plan files and the spy cam were full of awesome information from the HQ.

What they did do is release bullet proof software that added features but by but over time and Ernst was at the helm all the time. Now they need to revamp the sequencer and squash the bugs and they’re good to go (or be sold by the private equity guys!)

They still make some of the most fun and best devices in the business

[QVprod]

The sequencer was also listed as "under investigation" in the first roadmap. and while it wasn't mentioned In the second roadmap; "Tight integration with other DAWs" was also left out as well as "Immediate musical results. Perhaps they're done investigating.... Who knows. Things take time to implement

I find that roadmap change about workflow additions a bit sneaky. Did they put that on the first roadmap to stop the barrage of "where are the workflow additions?" that would've happened and to silence that but had no intention of doing it? that's why no specific workflow additions were mentioned.

On the contrary; Could it be that they only mentioned the things that were currently in development in the 2nd roadmap? Makes sense since major updates got pushed back in the timeline by several months.

If they wanted to be sneaky, I think they’d have taken the original roadmap blog post down and not left it up and even linked to it in the 2nd one. That’s pretty transparent. You can’t be sneaky and transparent at the same time.

[QVprod]

Btw.. This was true at one point in time but I think we can put this to rest. It's now at the top of the homepage.

Screen Shot 2022-01-27 at 5.59.39 PM.png

Oh that's what that is.
Boy, that's really obvious...

It’s obvious to me ‍♂️. That icon is usually associated with shopping.

[orthodox]

Oh that's what that is.
Boy, that's really obvious...

It’s obvious to me ‍♂️. That icon is usually associated with shopping.

It resembles a briefcase, suitcase, not a cart, and goes unnoticed.

[QVprod]

It’s obvious to me ‍♂️. That icon is usually associated with shopping.

It resembles a briefcase, suitcase, not a cart, and goes unnoticed.

Here’s a similar icon on Apple’s website. Perhaps it may vary on personal experiences, but what else would you assume that icon represents?

9147D08D-368E-42DC-B81C-1917A13A10B5.jpeg (336.31 KiB) Viewed 11741 times

[avasopht]

It resembles a briefcase, suitcase, not a cart, and goes unnoticed.

Here’s a similar icon on Apple’s website. Perhaps it may vary on personal experiences, but what else would you assume that icon represents?


9147D08D-368E-42DC-B81C-1917A13A10B5.jpeg

Similar icon, but the submenu is about the bag, not a link to the store.

[QVprod]

Here’s a similar icon on Apple’s website. Perhaps it may vary on personal experiences, but what else would you assume that icon represents?


9147D08D-368E-42DC-B81C-1917A13A10B5.jpeg

Similar icon, but the submenu is about the bag, not a link to the store.

Still related to shopping though. What else would the bag be for?

Here’s the Shopify logo

https://images.app.goo.gl/cL1cnwsQnK5PAwre6

[orthodox]

Since ancient times people have been trying to attract customers, making big neon signboards, lighting up illumination on Christmas. Now it's a small icon on a subway sign, a bag for a shop, a fork and a spoon for a diner.

[avasopht]

Still related to shopping though. What else would the bag be for?

Here’s the Shopify logo

https://images.app.goo.gl/cL1cnwsQnK5PAwre6

What else is the bag for? The same thing that it is on the Apple store: your basket/bag.

This icon on RS violates fundamental design principles.

Look around on the web and you'll find that icon resembles what usually brings you to your shopping cart where you will submit your purchase request and start poking in your credit card details (while you'd be hard-pressed to find notable examples supporting the idea this icon has been established as a link to the online store).

In fact, click the bag icon once and it will bring you to the store. But what happens when you click it the second time (while in the store)? Well, now the icon/button behaves differently. When you're in the shop it's REAL function is revealed - it's for the shopping cart!

So either it's an icon that takes you to a store, or it's an icon that takes you to your basket. It can't be both.

Why it's an icon rather than text like the rest of the top-level navigation links is beyond me.

[QVprod]

Still related to shopping though. What else would the bag be for?

Here’s the Shopify logo

https://images.app.goo.gl/cL1cnwsQnK5PAwre6

What else is the bag for? The same thing that it is on the Apple store: your basket/bag.

This icon on RS violates fundamental design principles.

Look around on the web and you'll find that icon resembles what usually brings you to your shopping cart where you will submit your purchase request and start poking in your credit card details (while you'd be hard-pressed to find notable examples supporting the idea this icon has been established as a link to the online store).

In fact, click the bag icon once and it will bring you to the store. But what happens when you click it the second time (while in the store)? Well, now the icon/button behaves differently. When you're in the shop it's REAL function is revealed - it's for the shopping cart!

So either it's an icon that takes you to a store, or it's an icon that takes you to your basket. It can't be both.

Why it's an icon rather than text like the rest of the top-level navigation links is beyond me.

I'm not debating whether or not it should be text or an icon. I just don't consider the shop to be hidden at this point with an icon that's related to shopping at the top of the page. Whether that be a shopping cart/bag or a shop in and of itself.

At the very least, if you see that icon, you know there is a shop. I think we can agree there.

[orthodox]

It would be silly to argue that there is no portal to the shop, or that it can't be discovered by specially trained people.
My concern is the percentage of those who notices it and decides to use it. I believe that if the shop link was more inviting, that percentage would be higher. It could be a text in large letters or different color, I don't know.