Will there be a need for a new Refill Packer?

[Heigen5]

Will there be a need for a new Refill Packer, regarding the R12 and Mimic and Combi2?

[gullum]

I don't think so the refill is just a zipped folder structure with a different file name, you can have almost anything inside a refill so it's really not going to change because of new devices

[Heigen5]

I don't think so the refill is just a zipped folder structure with a different file name, you can have almost anything inside a refill so it's really not going to change because of new devices

When Grain arrived, we needed a new Refill Packer.

[Billy+]

I would like to see an unpacker.

I grabbed a copy of XO awhile back and would like to be able to use the drum samples from refills in it but extracting them manually is way to time consuming.

The fact that Reason packs stuff like this actually puts me off buying refills.

[avasopht]

I would like to see an unpacker.

I grabbed a copy of XO awhile back and would like to be able to use the drum samples from refills in it but extracting them manually is way to time consuming.

The fact that Reason packs stuff like this actually puts me off buying refills.

The Refill format was designed to be like this when sound designers wanted to protect their waves from being ripped.

Maybe those needs are obsolete and there should be an option in the Refill packer to just pack it as a Zip archive if they want users to be able to extract audio.

[Heigen5]

I would like to see an unpacker.

I grabbed a copy of XO awhile back and would like to be able to use the drum samples from refills in it but extracting them manually is way to time consuming.

The fact that Reason packs stuff like this actually puts me off buying refills.

The Refill format was designed to be like this when sound designers wanted to protect their waves from being ripped.

Maybe those needs are obsolete and there should be an option in the Refill packer to just pack it as a Zip archive if they want users to be able to extract audio.

There's some advances that there are Refills. Faster browsing and a product kind of feel to it.

[Billy+]

I would like to see an unpacker.

I grabbed a copy of XO awhile back and would like to be able to use the drum samples from refills in it but extracting them manually is way to time consuming.

The fact that Reason packs stuff like this actually puts me off buying refills.

The Refill format was designed to be like this when sound designers wanted to protect their waves from being ripped.

Maybe those needs are obsolete and there should be an option in the Refill packer to just pack it as a Zip archive if they want users to be able to extract audio.

Yeah I know why it was done and I guess at the time it made sense but once we got access to vst's within Reason it just became an issue, some devices allowed drag' n drop from the browser and some don't.

I'm sure that there was an unpacker available at some point in the past but it wasn't an official app so I stayed away from it but it's definitely something worth doing as there are some good samples in refills that I would love to put into XO's AI.

What I find strange is the sound packs aren't "protected" and with the new search feature that means that they are excluded from it as it's based on indexed refills not location based?

I would definitely have a use for an unpacker and I might buy a few more refills if they could be taken apart or download as a zip

[Billy+]

The Refill format was designed to be like this when sound designers wanted to protect their waves from being ripped.

Maybe those needs are obsolete and there should be an option in the Refill packer to just pack it as a Zip archive if they want users to be able to extract audio.

There's some advances that there are Refills. Faster browsing and a product kind of feel to it.

I find it more of a disadvantage especially when it comes to one shots for drum samples.

[Billy+]

It wouldn't need to be a separate application RS could just incorporate a multi select drag n drop to desktop from the browser.

[gullum]

I would like to see an unpacker.

I grabbed a copy of XO awhile back and would like to be able to use the drum samples from refills in it but extracting them manually is way to time consuming.

The fact that Reason packs stuff like this actually puts me off buying refills.

The Refill format was designed to be like this when sound designers wanted to protect their waves from being ripped.

Maybe those needs are obsolete and there should be an option in the Refill packer to just pack it as a Zip archive if they want users to be able to extract audio.

but then again the refill only protects grabbing waves in a way. but there is no protection from copying the refill. and with the sample record in all sample load devices it's open to export for everyone that want's to.

[Billy+]

The Refill format was designed to be like this when sound designers wanted to protect their waves from being ripped.

Maybe those needs are obsolete and there should be an option in the Refill packer to just pack it as a Zip archive if they want users to be able to extract audio.

but then again the refill only protects grabbing waves in a way. but there is no protection from copying the refill. and with the sample record in all sample load devices it's open to export for everyone that want's to.

You don't need to go that far, you can drag a wav into the sequencer and export selected or bounce to disk - refills only protect content from non Reason owners and causes difficulty when using them in non Reason devices.

It's nothing more than an inconvenience and the primary reason I don't buy sample based refills anymore.

[bitley]

As someone who has spent years maximizing the benefits of this very fine file management, I find the reasoning extremely unfounded and poor.

By packing my hard work, I can deliver a uniform and professional product. The user can enjoy a file that is compact and exciting to browse through inside the program.

The user also avoids accidentally throwing something or confusing it with anything else.

The idea that some would like to break up the product we have worked so hard on is completely abstract.

It's like Steinway delivering a grand piano that was meant to be easily disassembled. Or modified. But then it would not be a Steinway anymore.

The great thing about real products is that they form a unit, a creatively satisfying user experience and offer an approach to usage that the developer has spent many many hours pondering.

When you buy my product, you should know that everything is placed as it is because I knew this was the very best way. Not only are my recordings unique, but so is my way of presenting them both acoustically and visually.

The format is outstanding precisely because of this.

[QVprod]

No need for refills anymore. Outdated concept. The folder with patches is enough just like most anyone else who sells presets for synths or samples...etc... It's essentially all a refill is anyway. A folder with patches. The packaging of a refill doesn't present much benefit outside of not "losing" content, but truly who's dealing deleting patch folders by accident? If you are, you're likely to delete a refill just as easily.

I think the fact that the R+ Packs are not in refill form is telling. Granted, the shop doesn't yet reflect this, but I don't think it's far off. Likely just low priority right now given that refills are not as big a deal as they used to be.

To answer the original question though, I don't think it will be necessary for a new packer. Without any updates, Combinator patches with VSTs are packable.

[jam-s]

The best alternative would be if Reason could just browse .zip files directly (even better if the OS could do this transparently for all applications). Then you could still have a nice package and also have access to individual files.

[bitley]

Well zip files existed back then too and that wasn't part of the idea, but it's about understanding (and approving of) the extreme thoughtfullness Propellerhead / Reason Studios always has had behind everything. The whole notion of "we have much better ideas" is: Missing the point. But I guess the common thing here on the internet is to always disrespect everything.

[gullum]

The refill is a good way to pack patches sure and with an open folder structure chances are you be moving samples around and loose overside where everything is located on your drive. I'm only saying as a protected format it's not good.

[Heigen5]

To answer the original question though, I don't think it will be necessary for a new packer. Without any updates, Combinator patches with VSTs are packable.

Lets hope so, as Grain required a new packer back then, so the same can be the case with the Mimic too.

[Billy+]

I'm not talking about breaking up a refill for the sake of it,
nor am I saying that refills are pointless because they are not,
it was and is an excellent way of thinking about packing but I like many others who have brought refills over the years have also brought vst's that can use the audio contained within the refills but as the files are not available directly to the devices I can't use them without having to jump through hoops to access them which is time consuming.

Not all vst's play nice with Reasons browser.
XO actually wants to analyse the audio and needs pointing to the directory.

Simply being able to access the content would be helpful, being able to just export to a folder would mean that I could use one shots in other vst devices if I've paid for the content I have the right to use it however I wish don't I?

[QVprod]

The refill is a good way to pack patches sure and with an open folder structure chances are you be moving samples around and loose overside where everything is located on your drive. I'm only saying as a protected format it's not good.

I doubt this is a common issue. Take samples for all NI plugins for example. All the folders are open. all the indexing is in the plugin itself, but you still have access to use the samples separately if you choose. And really, how many times does one truly move their samples/presets folders around? Especially if thy don't know what they're doing... probably not much if at all. I've told people about using external hard drives several times because they simply didn't know any better.

Well zip files existed back then too and that wasn't part of the idea, but it's about understanding (and approving of) the extreme thoughtfullness Propellerhead / Reason Studios always has had behind everything. The whole notion of "we have much better ideas" is: Missing the point. But I guess the common thing here on the internet is to always disrespect everything.

I don't think it's disrespect to acknowledge changes and advancements. Technology gets outdated all the time. Doesn't mean it wasn't good for it's time. Right now, refills no longer have much of an advantage of a regular folder zipped for delivery.

[Heigen5]

Hmmm, one advantage is that if you have a Grain-patch as example, then loading the samples finds the samples, no matter where your Refill is on your hard-drives.

[Billy+]

Hmmm, one advantage is that if you have a Grain-patch as example, then loading the samples finds the samples, no matter where your Refill is on your hard-drives.

There are plenty of grain patches included with plus packs and they work just fine as directorys

[Billy+]

I've like many have kings of Kong refill and it was my go to drum refill for ages it's great and has loads over 1000 hits in it, but I hardly ever use it now as it's content is unfortunately out of the reach of my latest drum tool.

[Heigen5]

Hmmm, one advantage is that if you have a Grain-patch as example, then loading the samples finds the samples, no matter where your Refill is on your hard-drives.

There are plenty of grain patches included with plus packs and they work just fine as directorys

Yeah, but if the Refill makers want their samples to be found in the same manner, they need to pack them inside the Refills, or otherwise the customers would need to have the sample folders in the same addresses as the creators did.

[Billy+]

There are plenty of grain patches included with plus packs and they work just fine as directorys

Yeah, but if the Refill makers want their samples to be found in the same manner, they need to pack them inside the Refills, or otherwise the customers would need to have the sample folders in the same addresses as the creators did.

So how are sound pack creators getting their grain patches to work?

Directory example
Sound pack\samples\file.wav
Sound pack \patch.repatch

[Heigen5]

Yeah, but if the Refill makers want their samples to be found in the same manner, they need to pack them inside the Refills, or otherwise the customers would need to have the sample folders in the same addresses as the creators did.

So how are sound pack creators getting their grain patches to work?

Directory example
Sound pack\samples\file.wav
Sound pack \patch.repatch

I think the RS coded Reason to make them to be found. The content is somewhere on the HD - maybe someone knows where.