Reason 12 is coming!

[EdGrip]

Adobe is the comparison that scares us, because they went subscription-only and everyone had to suck it up or move to other software. They did that because they knew they had a monopoly, so they could. And to be very, very clear, they forced that because it meant more money.
Adobe is where a lot of my "non-ownership of software" beef originates. "Oh hai guys! You know the tools of the trade you owned? Not any more!" Adobe did a lot of damage to the concept of SaaS.
Software subscriptions are not for me, as I mentioned in the whole recent thread that exists for this discussion (and where the poster in this thread who was demanding to hear from subscription users can look - it's right there!). But as long as they remain an *option*, I don't mind.

[EdGrip]

My 2 cents if the new sampler isn't like Serato Sample meaning Key Detection and the ability to use both Rex & Wav samples then what's the point I rather just stick with Serato Sample...

Maybe they did it for people who don't have Serato Sample.

I bet it's influenced by Seraro, but I imagine a bigger point of reference will be Simpler/Sampler in Live. But RS devices are always their own thing, and a sampler is the thing I've most been looking forward to them taking on.

Someone in this thread asked why not NN-XT 2 instead? RS don't really update devices - I think the last time that happened was RV7000 mkII? With the influences of everything out there in 2021, an NN-XT mkII would look (and be) so different to NN-XT that users used to working with NN-XT would effectively be left without a device.

Tbh I think if your idea of a new sampler is "NN-XT but maybe with some more controls and a new coat of paint", you haven't been paying attention to sampling software.

Worth noting too, there's no point making a device to try and compete with Kontakt for using huge gigabyte multisampled instrument libraries. Those people have Kontakt for that. So this won't be that.

[Creativemind]

Like the guy in the video I get the feeling the new sampler is not a traditional sampler like NN-XT, but one that's more like Serato Sample. I already have Serato Sampler and although I don't care much for auto-chopping, the timestretching/pitchshifting is great. I don't really need another sampler to do that. Still I'm curious to see if RS can take it to another level with their new sampler.

Sounds like it and with Reason's legendary time-stretch algorithm which is awesome. I just hope there's a sensitivity setting on it so you can adjust the amount of transients detected and even better, allow other stretch types but can't see that last one happening.

[EdGrip]

Oh! I wonder if this will finally be the arrival of proper ReCycle functionality in Reason?

I'm curious about the timestretching too - so far, it's been an offline render. Are Reason's timestretch algorithms going real-time?

[RoryM0]

I bet it's influenced by Seraro, but I imagine a bigger point of reference will be Simpler/Sampler in Live. But RS devices are always their own thing, and a sampler is the thing I've most been looking forward to them taking on.

Someone in this thread asked why not NN-XT 2 instead? RS don't really update devices - I think the last time that happened was RV7000 mkII? With the influences of everything out there in 2021, an NN-XT mkII would look (and be) so different to NN-XT that users used to working with NN-XT would effectively be left without a device.

Tbh I think if your idea of a new sampler is "NN-XT but maybe with some more controls and a new coat of paint", you haven't been paying attention to sampling software.

Worth noting too, there's no point making a device to try and compete with Kontakt for using huge gigabyte multisampled instrument libraries. Those people have Kontakt for that. So this won't be that.

Yeah I'd go with and hope for Live's sampling instruments as inspiration for the upcoming sampler, so I hope we can expect dynamic control/automation/CV manipulation of sample start and end points, sample playback direction, timestretch and all sorts of other sample bending properties.

You can see those eight buttons across the top look like the buttons that select scenes/patterns on RS players like Drum Sequencer, Polystep, Pattern Mutator etc. So these are likely to dynamically select samples and device set-ups.

I do wonder how much multi-sample ability this will have such as layering and note/velocity splits or if each scene is more like an instance of the 'Tape' setting on Grain but with new control possibilities geared at being a sampler.

I also hope that Rex integration is present...

sampler.png (75.47 KiB) Viewed 3384 times

[MrFigg]

11 bought with the sole purpose of getting 12. I can’t even be bothered installing it.

[Kilsane]

I don't know why but I thought it was the horrible old sampler that was going to be replaced by something more modern (like edison from FL with more functionality but also usable in Rack)

[platzangst]

11 bought with the sole purpose of getting 12. I can’t even be bothered installing it.

That's likely to be my path, especially since hearing of that memory problem 11 has had.

[epoch]

11 bought with the sole purpose of getting 12. I can’t even be bothered installing it.

That's likely to be my path, especially since hearing of that memory problem 11 has had.

That was fixed in 11.3.9

[Jackjackdaw]

I can't see how a Re would be able to replace how the old sampler window works for the older devices. The sampler window is an interface to the file system more than an editor. Interested to see how that plays out . Also interested to see if you can sample into the RRP.

[epoch]

VST 3 in a 11.x update would put a sock in a few mouths for a bit

btw. I think pre releasing features to subscribers before license holders can buy the upgrade is a crappy thing to do.

I think 11.3.9 is probably going to be the last v11. At least they fixed some of the awful bugs 11 introduced.

I was wondering about that part that Ryan said about Reason+ users getting new features first. So far the Reason.app / Reason.exe has been the same for perpetual and for Reason+ users. If what he says is right, then it sounds like they're going to fork this now with Reason 12. Unless they aren't and Ryan was just saying that to encourage subscription.

If they are going to fork it, I wonder what would happen if you signed up for a Reason+ trial and got the Reason+ app, and then copied it over to a machine with a perpetual license - would the new features still work? Are Reason+ users getting new features within Reason 11 before the app itself becomes Reason 12? Strange times.

[avasopht]

I would surmise that R+ is not bound to version numbers, so the RS team can push out updates and new features as and when they're ready rather than consolidate them into a single version or point update.

But that is what free point updates are for.

No it's not.

Free point updates are for bug fixes and features that weren't ready for the release. Once the product is released, new features target the next major update (typically).

Many features are ready months before release.

Do you really think all of the new features are all in development right until the eleventh hour?

No, they're not.

And when a new feature is started they will typically be doing so for the next version. Each major version is managed in a separate "space". You really don't want to be building new features in the old development "tree" they might be incompatible with changes made in the new one.

With R+ there's no need for explicit release dates. They're already committed to payment, so a release isn't very necessary.

Major overhauls are a different ball game.

But this is standard practice nowadays, and for good reason.

That's how most of my developer tools are released.

[Tweak]

As a Reason 10 user undecided on my next move, I think I'll wait this out for a while longer to understand a few things. I feel at the moment that there is evidence the company intend on leveraging a greater disparity between what is offered to perpetual license holders and those who subscribe to Reason+, presumably to push people towards subscription. Continued payment towards maintaining a perpetual license might end up being a very poor value proposition longer term.

When I used to buy a Reason update, in olden times, these would typically provide a few of the following:

• Sometimes new devices

• Sometimes DAW features and workflow enhancement

• New sounds and patches, particularly if new devices were provided

• An updated version of Reason with a base set of features/devices that offered interoperability between users for collaboration, and sound designers for creating multi-device combinator setups.

• Point updates that provide SDK upgrades, fixes and extra features.

Whilst I've no doubt the V12 update will provide some of these for perpetual license holders, and I'm sure RS will suggest that Reason+ always offers ADDITIONAL worth, I will be looking out for erosion of this value proposition with some of the following possible business moves:

• Reason 12, New combinator and sampler, but are patches for these being made available as part of the perpetual license? If access to a decent quality sound bank for these is only via Companion and Reason+ then this would be an indication of an erosion of value offered previously for patches.

• Access to point updates only for subscribers - early access to some Reason 12 features to subscribers only already suggests this is acceptable.

• Sound designers, patch makers and specifically those who build multi-device combinator setups using the new Reason 12 Combinator favouring the base configuration of Rack Extensions provided by a subscription through Reason+ rather than the base configuration provided by a bought license. The more sound designers build combinators assuming access to all Reason+ REs, the less the perpetual license configuration appears to be the stable development platform on which to base patch design. There is certainly reduced value in holding a bought license if most third party sound designers combinators are targeting a different base set of Rack Extensions.

• Major new Rack Extension SDK features. We got Players some time ago now. The next features made available to developers (if any) , and how they are implemented will provide a window into the company's business strategy. Certainly, release of new features reliant on new parts of the SDK only to subscribers would also look to me like an erosion of value based on historical actions

[platzangst]

That's likely to be my path, especially since hearing of that memory problem 11 has had.

That was fixed in 11.3.9

Ah, that's good to know. Still, unless Beat Map is the amazing killer app I never knew I needed, it's unlikely I'll feel super-motivated to install something I didn't feel like buying when it was released in the first place...

[MrFigg]

11 bought with the sole purpose of getting 12. I can’t even be bothered installing it.

That's likely to be my path, especially since hearing of that memory problem 11 has had.

Hahaha. I’m so far away from 11 that I didn’t even know about any memory problem. Or maybe it’s me who has the memory problem and I just don’t remember. 10 to the end...until September

[guitfnky]

That's likely to be my path, especially since hearing of that memory problem 11 has had.

Hahaha. I’m so far away from 11 that I didn’t even know about any memory problem. Or maybe it’s me who has the memory problem and I just don’t remember. 10 to the end...until September

I dunno, man, you might want to install 11 now—it's gonna take a few months to wrap your head around all 7 of those workflow enhancements. that curved automation is a doozy...

[MrFigg]

Hahaha. I’m so far away from 11 that I didn’t even know about any memory problem. Or maybe it’s me who has the memory problem and I just don’t remember. 10 to the end...until September

I dunno, man, you might want to install 11 now—it's gonna take a few months to wrap your head around all 7 of those workflow enhancements. that curved automation is a doozy...

12 will be the last for me. Yep, you read it here. So I’ve got plenty of time to learn all the stuff once I go to pension (I hope )

[tallguy]

11 bought with the sole purpose of getting 12. I can’t even be bothered installing it.

Automation curves are actually quite nice.

[MrFigg]

11 bought with the sole purpose of getting 12. I can’t even be bothered installing it.

Automation curves are actually quite nice.

Ok, maybe. Tell me what they do. I have no idea .

[tallguy]

Ok, maybe. Tell me what they do. I have no idea .

Normally, when you automate a parameter, it draws straight lines between the points. Now you can curve them which can be nice for fade-outs.

Also, muting individual notes is cool.

And the fact you drag lanes to be as tall as you want is not bad.

Haven't done much with the cross fades, but they might come in handy if you record lots of audio.

That said, it doesn't feel like a full upgrade coming from 10

[Creativemind]

Something just occurred to me, I wonder if this sampler might have similarities to FL Studio's Edison?

[Steedus]

Just realised my R+ trial is still active for a few more days, so I can still get the intro year for $99 ... maybe I’ll give it a go and get a regular upgrade at R13. It’s a bit scary though that any songs made while using R+ can only be opened by the latest version (so only having an 11 Suite license once 12 comes out I won’t be able to open songs once my subscription expires ehhhh...

[Heigen5]

Hey, I'm not sure, but it might still be the case, that you can upgrade your win 8 for free, I upgraded from win 7 myself: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7520154

Heigen5
Thank you so much for this.
I've just upgraded from W7 to W10 and probably saved myself from having to buy a new W10 laptop.

You're welcome, - glad it was still valid to do so.

[topperf]

Oh! I wonder if this will finally be the arrival of proper ReCycle functionality in Reason?

I'm curious about the timestretching too - so far, it's been an offline render. Are Reason's timestretch algorithms going real-time?

This. I'm pretty sure this is what we've been waiting for. I can't wait to work with these new tools and as a die hard Reason fan for more than 20 years I must say that I think the sub model is fantastic. I wish there was more consistency with the tablets side of things, but I also realise that developing and programming software of this calibre is not an easy undertaking. I know that the price of the subscription is a bit steep for some and I feel for them but when I compare to other pro music software subscriptions I think that the price is more than fair for what you get.
Look. It's just a crazy time to be creating music with software. There's free options out there that blows the mind! Use Reaper? Or others of the many, many cheap or free options?!

I want Reason to thrive in this difficult market and I think some people are being a wee bit unfair - when you think about it.

[plaamook]

Ok, maybe. Tell me what they do. I have no idea .

Haven't done much with the cross fades, but they might come in handy if you record lots of audio.

Cross fades are great. Smooth implementation. Had to wait ages for em too.
Sweeper is interesting as well.

If you've got it you may as well install it. It wasn't worth the price of an upgrade without any interesting point upgrades in the mix but what's there isn't shit.

Think that was all I got out of it in the end. Automation curves, x-fades, Sweeper. A half assed zoom tweak, or was that in 10? I can't remember.