Reason 12 is coming!

[joeyluck]

Sorry to inform you that I don't sign up for things I don't need. But I can offer you a book on sales and math for a perpetual fee of $2100. You're gong to want the other books I release after too! Sorry I don't offer my low monthly fee anymore that gave access to all my books. Great thing is, you'll get to keep the books regardless if you're still reading them! I sell bookshelves too to store all these books I can sell you! Just need that credit card number!

Thanks, if I need it, Ill buy your book and when I no longer need it, I'll sell it to someone else. I can do that because I own it once I buy it...
Ill bet that monthly fee gave me early access to make me feel better about my fake purchase too?!

and thanks for the bad analogy of comparing your book of the month club to a creative software license.

Thanks for your bad analogy too. Subscriptions are an option and they save money for many people.

[Leighbeater]

Ok they got me, Upgrading from R8 to R12 for $80 is a pretty great deal

[Shadoww]

It’s not about hating subscriptions. It’s about being concerned about the ethics and politics of such systems in 2021. Especially as the users of Reason are musicians - some of who are currently are struggling financially. I’m looking forward to R12 perpetual license and hope I’ll have work in September so I can buy it. And then if I’m out of work in December I can still be creative and make music - something I wouldn’t be able to do if I couldn’t afford my sub. It’s not about being jealous of others. I’m happy if people have employment, and can pay monthly. I just don’t like to be part of a community where people get shut out to creative activity just because they can’t afford a sub.

I get what you're saying. But it's not complete exclusivity. As in, it's not features that are only included in the subscription. It's features that we all will have regardless of how we use Reason. ween now and September rather than more teasers and just waiting in the dark...

I hope it’s not about exclusivity either. And I hope perpetual users don’t have to pay a larger price just to own the barebones software and then all the exclusives have to be bought separately as addons in addition to the upgrade. As that still discriminates against the less financially stable. I guess all this division could easily be resolved if the developers did the ethical thing and just made Reason+ rent to own. That would probably keep everyone happy

[Philup]

Thanks, if I need it, Ill buy your book and when I no longer need it, I'll sell it to someone else. I can do that because I own it once I buy it...
Ill bet that monthly fee gave me early access to make me feel better about my fake purchase too?!

and thanks for the bad analogy of comparing your book of the month club to a creative software license.

Thanks for your bad analogy too. Subscriptions are an option.

So is self castration. Doesn't make it a good idea.

[joeyluck]

Thanks for your bad analogy too. Subscriptions are an option.

So is self castration. Doesn't make it a good idea.

Instead of breaking down all the cost up front of Reason and every RS RE, I'll just start with someone who owns Suite to keep it simple.

Here's what you would have bought separately and what you would've paid:

Friktion = $99
Pattern Mutator = $69
Algoritm = $99
Reason 12 upgrade from 11 = $129
TOTAL = $396

Lets even consider current sale prices if you want:

Friktion = $69
Pattern Mutator = $49
Algoritm = $69
Reason 12 upgrade from 11 = $129
TOTAL = $316

Reason+ = $20/month + 1 month free
TOTAL = $220/year
Currently on sale for $139/year
And that's if you missed the sale for existing owners of $99/year

Regardless of Reason+ being on sale or not, you've spent more purchasing Reason and REs for the year than with those on sale. And don't forget that no RS RE has an intro price, so if you're buying them as they become available at the same time R+ users have access to them, you're paying full price for those.

Then you factor the REs released for the following year, and figuring that you purchase every RE, because that's the point and that's what you get with the subscription—you will always be paying more per year than you would with a subscription.

Now you could also factor everything you have to buy up front just to get up to speed before those items mentioned above (in this scenario that would've been the cost of Suite), then you are even further behind in annual cost.

If you're factoring in NOT buying REs and not having access to EVERYTHING, you are going about the math all wrong and you are making a comparison that shouldn't be made. Reason+ means access to everything and it saves money. It saves you a ton if you're just getting started with Reason and it still saves you money coming from Suite and having every RE and Reason upgrade that is released thereafter.

I'm not trying to sell anybody on a subscription, but I don't get where all of this "paying more" comes from. The numbers just don't show that.

[Shadoww]

It’s not about maths. It’s about ethics. And access for all regardless of personal income.

[Catblack]

Ok they got me, Upgrading from R8 to R12 for $80 is a pretty great deal

$80? I am seeing $90.

[joeyluck]

It’s not about maths. It’s about ethics. And access for all regardless of personal income.

I'm sorry that I don't follow. But the subscription is an option.

As a Reason user you have the flexibility to decide what works best for you. If you feel it costs less to buy perpetual licenses, then you can do that. If you factor differences in yearly cost and figure that the subscription is cheaper per year, you can go with that.

If you want early access to features, but want to rent everything, you subscribe. If you want to own perpetual licenses, you wait until the the major release and buy it then. You weigh the pros and cons of each.

But you keep making this assumption of subscribers having more income, while they are paying less total and less per year... I don't look at someone with a large Blu-ray collection and assume they have less money than someone subscribing to Netflix.

[yahsmith]

So is self castration. Doesn't make it a good idea.

Instead of breaking down all the cost up front of Reason and every RS RE, I'll just start with someone who owns Suite to keep it simple.

Here's what you would have bought separately and what you would've paid:

Friktion = $99
Pattern Mutator = $69
Algoritm = $99
Reason 12 upgrade from 11 = $129
TOTAL = $396

Lets even consider current sale prices if you want:

Friktion = $69
Pattern Mutator = $49
Algoritm = $69
Reason 12 upgrade from 11 = $129
TOTAL = $316

Reason+ = $20/month + 1 month free
TOTAL = $220/year
Currently on sale for $139/year
And that's if you missed the sale for existing owners of $99/year

Regardless of Reason+ being on sale or not, you've spent more purchasing Reason and REs for the year than with those on sale. And don't forget that no RS RE has an intro price, so if you're buying them as they become available at the same time R+ users have access to them, you're paying full price for those.

Then you factor the REs released for the following year, and figuring that you purchase every RE, because that's the point and that's what you get with the subscription—you will always be paying more per year than you would with a subscription.

Now you could also factor everything you have to buy up front just to get up to speed before those items mentioned above (in this scenario that would've been the cost of Suite), then you are even further behind in annual cost.

If you're factoring in NOT buying REs and not having access to EVERYTHING, you are going about the math all wrong and you are making a comparison that shouldn't be made. Reason+ means access to everything and it saves money. It saves you a ton if you're just getting started with Reason and it still saves you money coming from Suite and having every RE and Reason upgrade that is released thereafter.

I'm not trying to sell anybody on a subscription, but I don't get where all of this "paying more" comes from. The numbers just don't show that.

If I buy it straight up I’m not paying monthly or yearly payment its mines…. If they come up with an update that I don’t care about I can skip it…So paying $396 is not more FOR ME BECAUSE..…I might not want to pay for the next major update and 3 or 4 years might go by before I feel the need to update…paying 20 a month Might be fine for some if you are the type who needs the latest update and the latest RE’s…..Both are great options neither one is bad…It depends on the person its a case by case situation….

[joeyluck]

They are now returned to they way they were. Thanks

Lol nothing changed

[joeyluck]

If I buy it straight up I’m not paying monthly or yearly payment its mines…. If they come up with an update that I don’t care about I can skip it…So paying $396 is not more FOR ME BECAUSE..…I might not want to pay for the next major update and 3 or 4 years might go by before I feel the need to update…paying 20 a month Might be fine for some if you are the type who needs the latest update and the latest RE’s…..Both are great options neither one is bad…It depends on the person its a case by case situation….

Exactly. And best way to properly compare the costs and benefits of the subscription is if you are considering always having everything; all of the RS REs and the latest of Reason...as well as whatever value you place on sound packs. Of course, if you're factoring buying only just some REs and only upgrading Reason sometimes, especially as an existing user, then that is different. It's a different comparison for sure. I think many existing users fit into that bracket. For new users especially, I can see how the subscription can be an easier choice.

[dvdrtldg]

It’s not about maths. It’s about ethics. And access for all regardless of personal income.

I think this thread just reached peak Oh For Fuck's Sake

[QVprod]

What? People in the thread that asks about why there is hate towards subscriptions claim that there is none, and that people have simply "expressed that it isn't for them" and that is clearly BS. When something isn't for you, you move on.

I'm just pointing that out and I find it funny. People who are anti-subscription can't seem to figure out if they think it's a lousy idea that will fail or scared of the idea that people like it and it succeeds.

By the sound of this forum, lots of people are excited about R12. There will most definitely be lots of perpetual license sales. While RS has expressed that perpetual licenses are going nowhere, and they held a nearly 2 hour live stream to tell you users that many times, people still have doubts. And users will speak loud enough with their continued support of perpetual licenses when they upgrade in September (or if they upgraded to R11 between today and September).

It’s not about hating subscriptions. It’s about being concerned about the ethics and politics of such systems in 2021. Especially as the users of Reason are musicians - many are struggling financially. I’m looking forward to R12 perpetual license and hope I’ll have work in September so I can buy it. And then if I’m out of work in December I can still be creative and make music - something I wouldn’t be able to do if I only had my sub. It’s not about being jealous of others. I’m happy if people have continual employment, and can pay monthly. I just don’t like to be part of a community where people get shut out to creative activity just because they can’t afford a sub.

There’s nothing unethical about an optional subscription. The fact that it’s optional means no one’s being shut out of anything. I’m sorry your personal work situation isn’t stable, but that’s not a reflection of the world. The majority of users likely aren’t full time musicians to begin with (they make money elsewhere), and the ones that are: many of which have multiple streams of income to cope with months where gigs are scarce. In a world where subscriptions to Amazon, Netflix, Apple Music, YouTube red/YouTube music, HBO Max...etc...are common place (often a few of these at once, $20 a month really isn’t that much in the grand scheme of things.

Let’s look at this another way. In September you hope to have $129 to pay for Reason 12. With Reason+ you’d only have spent $20 of your income for that month instead of $129. That means you’d have money left over.

VST 3 in a 11.x update would put a sock in a few mouths for a bit

btw. I think pre releasing features to subscribers before license holders can buy the upgrade is a crappy thing to do.

It’s been mentioned, but who would you prioritize? Fans that are paying you regularly or fans that pay you once a year or 2? They’re literally paying for that benefit. When you’ve paid for a product in the perpetual sense, you’ve already gotten what you paid for. Anything else outside of a bug fix is a gift.

The way it works is perpetuals get the whole package at once. Subscribers get features as they’re ready. Aside from jealousy and FOMO, perpetuals have the same deal they’ve always had.

[JorgeM]

I'll be sticking with Reason 10 for now due to having an old laptop. I'm wondering if the new sampler will become available to purchase as a device in the shop?

[QVprod]

Browser improvements? So what?

Worth mentioning this is an incredibly overlooked feature. If they took the time to mention it all these month ahead, it’s likely to be a significant improvement. Anyone who’s used a modern browser like the one in Komplete Kontrol as well as others can probably speculate to what this might mean.

Edit: I think this graphic gives a pretty nice hint

226F8FE0-DD82-4F5B-B594-7F79BE04B637.png (830.95 KiB) Viewed 2883 times

[Shadoww]

Why do they mods on here keep mentioning Netflix and Spotify? Reason is not an entertainment streaming service for the masses? They are not comparable.

[joeyluck]

Why do they mods on here keep mentioning Netflix and Spotify? Reason is not an entertainment streaming service for the masses? They are not comparable.

It's just examples trying to connect with people who seem to be new to the concept of software subscriptions. We could give examples of McDSP, Slate, Waves, EastWest, Avid, Kilohearts, etc. because it's not new territory, but some users seem new to the concept. So assuming you don't have a McDSP subscription, you may more likely have Netflix and can relate to that.

[challism]

It’s not about maths. It’s about ethics. And access for all regardless of personal income.

Software socialism. Yay!

So to be clear, it IS about money. RS is a business. They have bills to pay. The employees don't work for free. If they don't make income, they go out of business. Perhaps Joey 's book club should offer some books covering introductory principles of business.

Why do they mods on here keep mentioning Netflix and Spotify? Reason is not an entertainment streaming service for the masses? They are not comparable.

OK then, Adobe.

[Shadoww]

Why do they mods on here keep mentioning Netflix and Spotify? Reason is not an entertainment streaming service for the masses? They are not comparable.

It's just examples trying to connect with people who seem to be new to the concept of software subscriptions. We could give examples of McDSP, Slate, Waves, EastWest, Avid, Kilohearts, etc. because it's not new territory, but some users seem new to the concept. So assuming you don't have a McDSP subscription, you may more likely have Netflix and can relate to that.

Better to stick with the Avid Pro Tools subscription comparison then. Not many DAWs are pushing subscription models, well not as a priority over the standalone. Using Netflix as an example isn’t comparable either on price or service.

[QVprod]

Why do they mods on here keep mentioning Netflix and Spotify? Reason is not an entertainment streaming service for the masses? They are not comparable.

A subscription is a subscription. It’s money taken out of your account in exchange for a product or service on a monthly basis. The industry of the product/service is irrelevant to that fact. The concept is exactly the same.

Now if you feel what’s offered isn’t worth the price, that’s fine, but these are not different things at all in function.

[Shadoww]

It’s not about maths. It’s about ethics. And access for all regardless of personal income.

Software socialism. Yay!

So to be clear, it IS about money. RS is a business. They have bills to pay. The employees don't work for free. If they don't make income, they go out of business. Perhaps Joey 's book club should offer some books covering introductory principles of business.

Nah mate. It’s called Conscious Capitalism.

[dioxide]

"access for all regardless of personal income"

Everybody does have access regardless of personal income. They might just need to save for it, that's all.

[MannequinRaces]

Maybe I should have got that R+ subscription when it was on sale, lol. R12 looks promising. Three major feature requests checked off the list. Not bad! Haven’t been making much music these days but I like where things are going.

[bidaar]

I wrote some words here, if you're a sucker for more details: https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/announcing-reason-12

that was awesome to read mattias ! inspired even more . cant wait for all that . Im gonna subscribe to Reason+ probably or at worst case Im just gonna upgrade to 12 because I already have Suite so Im packed + lots of more REs . good luck .

[zoidkirb]

Anyone remember somewhere on the website it said perpetual licenses will grant a years worth of updates?
If that was the case it won't stop me upgrading but depending on what happens it would influence wether I made a future R13 purchase or not.
Buying software updates and factoring in point updates is always going to be a bit of a gamble anyways.