Reason 12 is coming!

[Philup]

when you say that these new futures will be rolled out to Reason + users. Does that mean that the + users are beta tester for us that will wait for 12 to be released?

No beta test, it's Just snake oil marketing by trickling the feature release to to a "preferred" customer class in order to build false sense of added value into the subscription plan.

[Shadoww]

The message is confusing and muddy. This is why I cringe every time I see the videos trying to explain the roll out model. I can almost see in Ryan’s eyes that’s he feels like he’s trying to sell us all a dud. Maybe he’s taken off his glasses as a subliminal subconscious protest to his employers! Like he’s wanting to distance himself from reason+ ha

They have to give the subs people the warm fuzzy feeling of being special. Subs are where RS will make the most money.

I thought everyone has cancelled their subs in the pandemic? Aren’t people struggling to pay bills? I guess it’s subs for the rich and struggling musicians get the overpriced scraps at the end.

[mtbh]

This is awesome coming from 10 .. bought! Especially looking forward to the new combinator.

[plaamook]

when you say that these new futures will be rolled out to Reason + users. Does that mean that the + users are beta tester for us that will wait for 12 to be released?

Might be the end of point updates for perpetual license holders.
Instead of 11.x you roll out a kind of pre-12 to incentivise subscriptions.
Just a guess.

[strange_scenery]

when you say that these new futures will be rolled out to Reason + users. Does that mean that the + users are beta tester for us that will wait for 12 to be released?

The way I believe it will most likely work is that Reason+ members will get the combinator and the sampler early, since they can be distributed much like Rack Extensions, and the hi-res graphics and browser updates will come in Reason 12.

[nscerri]

VST 3 in a 11.x update would put a sock in a few mouths for a bit

btw. I think pre releasing features to subscribers before license holders can buy the upgrade is a crappy thing to do.

Look at the bright side, Reason+ users will be our beta testers

[jam-s]

btw. I think pre releasing features to subscribers before license holders can buy the upgrade is a crappy thing to do.

That's basically "early access" aka "pay to be part of public beta testing".

[Shadoww]

VST 3 in a 11.x update would put a sock in a few mouths for a bit

btw. I think pre releasing features to subscribers before license holders can buy the upgrade is a crappy thing to do.

Look at the bright side, Reason+ users will be our beta testers

I wish the subs lot would speak up and tell us why they think paying more in the long run and not having ownership of software helps them as creatives in precarious times? Or at least join in on this conversation! How do they justify getting early access when others have to wait due to financial difficulties? My guess is they keep silent cos they know how un-democratic Reason+ is especially within the context of a struggling music community.

[Aquila]

when you say that these new futures will be rolled out to Reason + users. Does that mean that the + users are beta tester for us that will wait for 12 to be released?

I would surmise that R+ is not bound to version numbers, so the RS team can push out updates and new features as and when they're ready rather than consolidate them into a single version or point update.

[Melody303]

I’m the one who made the Reason 12 Wishlist on the forum btw, the day of the R11 announcement

Anw, some of the major sequencer wishlist:

- channel grouping
- punch in / punch out
- more fluid piano roll (the double-click to add a note is annoying, also the pen and eraser tool should be part of the same tool)
- a scale inside the piano roll
- more options than just velocity below the piano roll (filter, pan are welcome)
- Options to strum and arpegiate notes in the piano roll
- Options to slide and glide a note in the piano roll
- drag and drop wav samples from the browser directly to inside the Redrum channel in the sequencer (Redrum was just an example, to all instruments this is welcome)
- Be able to edit automation the “Transpose” tool in the sequencer.
- There’s something in Ableton which I forgot the name, but basically it’s an option you tick to be able to play a midi note even if you play it in the middle, instead of having to stop and play it back from the start of the midi note to hear it.
- A smarter Looping system, loop in the sequencer when you reach the last midi box

These are at the top of my head but I’m sure many friends in the forum will fill what I’ve missed.

If this was the list of announced features for Reason 12, I'd yawn, completely disinterested. The chances I'd buy it off that feature list are 0%, and unless I'm confusing posters in the thread, you're also the one who called the features that have been announced as more appropriate for a point upgrade? This is funny to me.
I use Reason exclusively, and the features that have been announced are infinitely more likely to earn my money than the ones you've listed.

[Shadoww]

when you say that these new futures will be rolled out to Reason + users. Does that mean that the + users are beta tester for us that will wait for 12 to be released?

I would surmise that R+ is not bound to version numbers, so the RS team can push out updates and new features as and when they're ready rather than consolidate them into a single version or point update.

But that is what free point updates are for.

[owlymane]

I’m the one who made the Reason 12 Wishlist on the forum btw, the day of the R11 announcement

Anw, some of the major sequencer wishlist:

- channel grouping
- punch in / punch out
- more fluid piano roll (the double-click to add a note is annoying, also the pen and eraser tool should be part of the same tool)
- a scale inside the piano roll
- more options than just velocity below the piano roll (filter, pan are welcome)
- Options to strum and arpegiate notes in the piano roll
- Options to slide and glide a note in the piano roll
- drag and drop wav samples from the browser directly to inside the Redrum channel in the sequencer (Redrum was just an example, to all instruments this is welcome)
- Be able to edit automation the “Transpose” tool in the sequencer.
- There’s something in Ableton which I forgot the name, but basically it’s an option you tick to be able to play a midi note even if you play it in the middle, instead of having to stop and play it back from the start of the midi note to hear it.
- A smarter Looping system, loop in the sequencer when you reach the last midi box

These are at the top of my head but I’m sure many friends in the forum will fill what I’ve missed.

If this was the list of announced features for Reason 12, I'd yawn, completely disinterested. The chances I'd buy it off that feature list are 0%, and unless I'm confusing posters in the thread, you're also the one who called the features that have been announced as more appropriate for a point upgrade? This is funny to me.
I use Reason exclusively, and the features that have been announced are infinitely more likely to earn my money than the ones you've listed.

Good for you

[Jackjackdaw]

when you say that these new futures will be rolled out to Reason + users. Does that mean that the + users are beta tester for us that will wait for 12 to be released?

Might be the end of point updates for perpetual license holders.
Instead of 11.x you roll out a kind of pre-12 to incentivise subscriptions.
Just a guess.

This is what Corel do with their graphics software and it sucks. I know it's all just speculation but these are all the real reasons why sub services suck. Because at the end of the day they are there to exploit users for more money and so they will play dirty to get you on board.

[joeyluck]

Why should they not release features to subscribers as they become ready?

If you prefer perpetual licenses, then you stick with the perpetual cycle—you wait until everything is compiled and ready for a major release. It's like waiting for a bundle.

If you want things as they become ready, then you subscribe. For them to keep new features out of the hands of a subscriber who isn't tied directly to a version number would seem silly. For them to potentially release R12 as just a new sampler or whatever other single feature and add other things later would be bad.

It makes sense to do this with a subscription. It does not make sense for them to do it with a perpetual license.

And instead, I see more people saying that subscribers should not receive these features, just because they won't have them as well...

If a feature you like is released ahead of R12, use your R+ trial if you haven't already. Use that 90 day R+ trial promotion from Splice if it's still available.

[Aquila]

But that is what free point updates are for.

But why? Free point upates are not guaranteed for users though. We've been lucky to have been given some in the past, but realistically the license(s) we buy are sold to us in their original marketed state only. All we are really entitled to are fixes to ensure what we bought works as expected.

While subscribing's not for me, the idea that a subscription allows developers to grow and evolve the software without having to sell new licenses each time makes sense as it cuts the risk of lost sales and revenue if a user doesn't see the need to purchase a newer version (*cough* V11 *cough*).

[OverneathTheSkyBridg]

I'm worried that this will be the end of point updates for license holders as well. I'll definitely be upgrading to 12 regardless of this, but I am worried.

[devil71]

Oh balls. Still on Win 8.1 here.

Hey, I'm not sure, but it might still be the case, that you can upgrade your win 8 for free, I upgraded from win 7 myself: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7520154

Heigen5
Thank you so much for this.
I've just upgraded from W7 to W10 and probably saved myself from having to buy a new W10 laptop.

[Shadoww]

But that is what free point updates are for.

But why? Free point upates are not guaranteed for users though. We've been lucky to have been given some in the past, but realistically the license(s) we buy are sold to us in their original marketed state only. All we are really entitled to are fixes to ensure what we bought works as expected.

While subscribing's not for me, the idea that a subscription allows developers to grow and evolve the software without having to sell new licenses each time makes sense as it cuts the risk of lost sales and revenue if a user doesn't see the need to purchase a newer version (*cough* V11 *cough*).

Free point updates haven’t always been about fixes. Very often they are a chance for developers to give users the features that weren’t quite ready for release at launch. They are also a good way to keep customer loyalty and a sense of community.
Subscription models are a dangerous way to go for niche music making product like Reason. Especially when the user base has precarious income. Musicians currently are suffering due the pandemic: lack of gigs, lack of income from streaming and a general lack of support from governments. I know it’s not the duty of companies like Reason Studios to care about the arts but they have profited off them for many years and market themselves in a way that suggest they do care about grassroots etc. So it just seems unethical to introduce a subscription system in 2021 when there is so much scrutiny over these models at the moment. It’s about paying artists fairly and also about not exploiting them too.

[joeyluck]

But why? Free point upates are not guaranteed for users though. We've been lucky to have been given some in the past, but realistically the license(s) we buy are sold to us in their original marketed state only. All we are really entitled to are fixes to ensure what we bought works as expected.

While subscribing's not for me, the idea that a subscription allows developers to grow and evolve the software without having to sell new licenses each time makes sense as it cuts the risk of lost sales and revenue if a user doesn't see the need to purchase a newer version (*cough* V11 *cough*).

Free point updates haven’t always been about fixes. Very often they are a chance for developers to give users the features that weren’t quite ready for release at launch. They are also a good way to keep customer loyalty and a sense of community.
Subscription models are a dangerous way to go for niche music making product like Reason. Especially when the user base has precarious income. Musicians currently are suffering due the pandemic: lack of gigs, lack of income from streaming and a general lack of support from governments. I know it’s not the duty of companies like Reason Studios to care about the arts but they have profited off them for many years and market themselves in a way that suggest they do care about grassroots etc. So it just seems unethical to introduce a subscription system in 2021 when there is so much scrutiny over these models at the moment. It’s about paying artists fairly and also about not exploiting them too.

Subscribing is cheaper and is an option.

[Philup]

Free point updates haven’t always been about fixes. Very often they are a chance for developers to give users the features that weren’t quite ready for release at launch. They are also a good way to keep customer loyalty and a sense of community.
Subscription models are a dangerous way to go for niche music making product like Reason. Especially when the user base has precarious income. Musicians currently are suffering due the pandemic: lack of gigs, lack of income from streaming and a general lack of support from governments. I know it’s not the duty of companies like Reason Studios to care about the arts but they have profited off them for many years and market themselves in a way that suggest they do care about grassroots etc. So it just seems unethical to introduce a subscription system in 2021 when there is so much scrutiny over these models at the moment. It’s about paying artists fairly and also about not exploiting them too.

Subscribing is cheaper and is an option.

Yea, and if you believe that, I have an extended warranty and a deluxe wash package to sell you... Just need your bank routing number and a signature.

[joeyluck]

Subscribing is cheaper and is an option.

Yea, and if you believe that, I have an extended warranty and a deluxe wash package to sell you... Just need your bank routing number and a signature.

Sorry to inform you that I don't sign up for things I don't need. But I can offer you a book on sales and math for a perpetual fee of $2100. You're gong to want the other books I release after too! Sorry I don't offer my low monthly fee anymore that gave access to all my books. Great thing is, you'll get to keep the books regardless if you're still reading them! I sell bookshelves too to store all these books I can sell you! Just need that credit card number!

[Philup]

Yea, and if you believe that, I have an extended warranty and a deluxe wash package to sell you... Just need your bank routing number and a signature.

Sorry to inform you that I don't sign up for things I don't need. But I can offer you a book on sales and math for a perpetual fee of $2100. You're gong to want the other books I release after too! Sorry I don't offer my low monthly fee anymore that gave access to all my books. Great thing is, you'll get to keep the books regardless if you're still reading them! I sell bookshelves too to store all these books I can sell you! Just need that credit card number!

Thanks, if I need it, Ill buy your book and when I no longer need it, I'll sell it to someone else. I can do that because I own it once I buy it...
Ill bet that monthly fee gave me early access to make me feel better about my fake purchase too?!

and thanks for the bad analogy of comparing your book of the month club to a creative software license.

[joeyluck]

It’s not about hating subscriptions. It’s about being concerned about the ethics and politics of such systems in 2021. Especially as the users of Reason are musicians - some of who are currently are struggling financially. I’m looking forward to R12 perpetual license and hope I’ll have work in September so I can buy it. And then if I’m out of work in December I can still be creative and make music - something I wouldn’t be able to do if I could afford my sub. It’s not about being jealous of others. I’m happy if people have employment, and can pay monthly. I just don’t like to like to be part of a community where people get shut out to creative activity trust because they can’t afford a sub.

I get what you're saying. But it's not complete exclusivity. As in, it's not features that are only included in the subscription. It's features that we all will have regardless of how we use Reason.

The timeline for R12 for those of us getting perpetual licenses does not change. It's not like they are pushing it back to show favoritism towards subscribers. They merely mentioned releasing features as they are ready to subscribers, because that makes sense. Someone as a subscriber can't receive Algoritm released end of February and nothing no other new device or feature until September. Nearly half a year with nothing new? And there is no clean way to do it for the perpetual license, because releasing R12.0 with a single feature looks bad.

It means anybody looking to buy a perpetual upgrade can still trial R+ to check out the features. It means we that maybe we all get to see more videos of users putting these features and devices to use in the meantime while waiting for the R12 release. I'd rather have that between now and September rather than more teasers and just waiting in the dark...

[Catblack]

I think I might upgrade.

That's a pretty big thing to say. I've been spending all my money on eurorack modules (doing diy and building lots) and now I've got so many I have a surplus. But I've been reviewing a lot of my old Reason song files when I hooked my backup hard drive up to archive the last two years and now I'm craving reintegrating Reason with my modular.

Reason 11 was never worth it for me. I still wish the sequencer was beefed up more than the rack. I've got 20 years of refills and combinators. I've almost 400 rack extensions. I don't need more sounds in the rack. But hi-rez and zoomable would be nice as my eyes have gotten old.

Ideally, this advice would be heeded in Reason12. TLDR: It's a suggestion to have a popup window that displays your remotable items which would show you on screen what your midi device's knobs were controlling with whatever had focus. A bit like Novation's Automap does. I'd looked into Automap's Remote interface about 3 years ago and worked out how to make something similar in function for a variety of controllers, but I'd decided that it was too much trouble to code. (Plus I'd just had another kid, so very busy with life.)

But I mention this because it's still the biggest major disconnect in using Reason to it's fullest for everybody -- What does each control on my midi keyboard change on whichever rack extension has focus currently? There are too many midi controllers out there for Reason Studios to hope each writes their own Remote codec. There are some fan made ones and most midi controllers can use the generic. The easiest solution to the frustration with them all is a popup window that shows you what's mapped to what.

(I should also say that in my opinion the Remote format for scripting codecs in Lua and their related Remotemaps -- which was released back in 2003 I think -- is actually quite wonderful and works well.)

Beyond that suggestion though, the idea of a new combinator as it's been described makes me dread that existential disconnect of Knob On Screen vs Knob On Controller even more. The solution of a popup window to display it seems to me the only solution.

Or to put it another way, how many of us over the years have opened Remotemaps so we could figure out what our midi controllers were controlling? I can't be the only one. Of course some of those remotemaps are getting pretty large with 400 rack extensions and more each month. (Neverminding the community effort many years ago by Koshdukai and others to actually compile them into one place. It wasn't until Reason 10 that you could export remotables!)

So Reason Studios, if you really, really want to improve the Reason rack work on this one (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ 'in frustration that every user* is feeling constantly. And do it before the new combinator makes things worse!


*with a non-Nektar controller

[Creativemind]

So what will happen to the NN-XT after this new sampler arrives, just sit there doing nothing 'cause I'm guessing this sampler will put it to a shame?