Mastering/Final Master exported from Reason, (pros and cons) ?

[estuary]

Hi

I am wondering if I am the only one who's mastering the song into Reason DAW,
I mean, I usually mix the tracks using the Mixer etc ... and on the "Master Section" I am using ozone9 + some mastering tools.

I can bypass easily the "Master Section" and fix elements of the mix anytime if something feel wrong.
When "Master Section" is ON with ozone9 and various vst tools, I can polish the mix, check the loudness, tonal balance, and everything ... + at the same time I am still able to fix any elements of individual tracks if needed.
It's sometimes very heavy for the CPU, but my i7 can survive

If all good, I could just export as WAV and that's it, it's the final track
I am doing this way, because it sounds always good to me ! and this is the most important than follow any rules (at least this is my way)

But I writing this message, because I am curious/wondering if any of you know if there is any disadvantages doing this way or any interesting point of view, experiences, etc (especially from someone who got a lot of knowledge in mastering)

It's maybe weird but I always feel something changing on the track after exporting the mix, and re-open the mix on ozone9 then process to mastering and export
I want to avoid export, import, export ...

What do you think?

Thank you!

[esselfortium]

There's no problem with doing your final master in Reason, but I'd put Ozone after Tape so that the maximizer can be the very last thing in the chain. Otherwise you might run into clipping.

I'd also recommend routing the Master Out into your mastering chain, and then plug your mastering chain's output directly into the Hardware Interface's first stereo output. This way, the mastering chain is after the master gain slider. (I have no idea why this isn't always the case...)

[orthodox]

I'd also recommend routing the Master Out into your mastering chain, and then plug your mastering chain's output directly into the Hardware Interface's first stereo output. This way, the mastering chain is after the master gain slider. (I have no idea why this isn't always the case...)

I just don't use the Master Fader for adjusting the mix volume. In my view, the mixing ends when the signal comes to the Master Section, which is totally devoted to the purpose of mastering. If I need to adjust the mix volume, I add a gain control first in the insert box. The Master Fader is only good for track fadeouts.

[chaosroyale]

Master volume isn't even useful for fadeouts in its default setting, because it comes after the dithering of your finalizer/maximizer plugin! I assume Reasons native dither comes after, but for anyone who uses 3rd party plugins the master fader is useless.

In response to OP; yeah, basically what esselfortium said. I'd recommend you keep your mastering section bypassed while doing most of your tracking and only start bringing it in occasionally as you get close to finishing the track, but it's a perfectly good and fast workflow to mix and master in one project if that works for you.

worth re-stating: whatever does your final level control and dithering must be the absolute last thing in the chain for it to be meaningful. That would be Ozone9 in OP's case.

I'd also recommend routing the Master Out into your mastering chain, and then plug your mastering chain's output directly into the Hardware Interface's first stereo output. This way, the mastering chain is after the master gain slider. (I have no idea why this isn't always the case...)

I just don't use the Master Fader for adjusting the mix volume. In my view, the mixing ends when the signal comes to the Master Section, which is totally devoted to the purpose of mastering. If I need to adjust the mix volume, I add a gain control first in the insert box. The Master Fader is only good for track fadeouts.

[deeplink]

Jumping on this thread but on another note;

How do you manage exporting of mix channels, especially when there are a few bus channels.

Do you export both the mix channel and the bus and send it to the engineer?

[stillifegaijin]

Mastering in Reason is fine. Great actually.

But I suggest not doing it in the song file. The point of mastering is not only to get a final EQ and level but also to quality check what you've done. That's why it's commonly accepted that someone other than the artist or mix engineer should master, so that they can evaluate the track with fresh and "unbiased" ears. But it's also totally cool to master yourself if you feel confident. But my theory is that when I do master my own material I try to take some time away between mixing and mastering. Sometimes I don't have much time, but even a day or two can help. Also, it helps to commit to the mix and then master in an entirely separate session, especially if you are mastering an album. You absolutely cannot properly master a 10 song album in 10 different song sessions. There's no way you can do proper sequencing or create cohesion that way.

So, much like you are doing with Ozone and Tape, I have some form of tape emulation, maybe some imaging for stereo width, definitely an EQ or two, and a limiter on my final mix bus. Important note - The limiter on the mix bus is absolutely not for added volume or to achieve loudness. The limiter I use is entirely for tone and body. - I bounce my final mixes out around -3db, sometimes lower. I get the mix as near to perfect, aside from final loudness, as I can. I bounce that out as a mix and then I do mastering in an entirely different session at a different time, either just the one track or all the songs for the EP or album.

I do use Ozone for mastering...And yes, as everyone before me has said, the Ozone Maximizer or whatever limiter you use on your master should be the absolute last thing in you chain. Nothing after the final limiter or you risk digital clipping.

That's my advice...But, in the end, it's just advice. Do whatever you want! It's your music. Nothing is really right or wrong, only preferred or recommended working methods. I've done things very differently in the past and had wild success with the results. I've also tried super traditional methods and failed miserably.

"Choose your own pedals"

[stillifegaijin]

Jumping on this thread but on another note;

How do you manage exporting of mix channels, especially when there are a few bus channels.

Do you export both the mix channel and the bus and send it to the engineer?

They aren't sending to an engineer. They are finishing the entire process themselves.

[chaosroyale]

Deeplink- it seems like your question is for yourself, not specifically related to OP's question right? If so, here is my advice:

If a client is asking someone like me to do their mix, I will usually ask them to send me each individual "part" as as WAV file, whatever they feel one "part" is. For example, they might have a drum section with 5 individual channels, but they really liked the way it sounded all going through a single buss compressor, so they can treat that buss as one single part, and send a WAV of the "drum part", bearing in mind that it will be much harder to re-balance elements within that "part". It really depends on how much the artist wants me to make decisions about the relationships of every individual sound.

My advice is to think about what is each basic "part" of your music, and treat each one as a unit, whether it is a single mix channel, parallel channels bus, or whatever. Export each "unit" and send them to the engineer. Think about what you can or cannot split apart, without changing the sound you were aiming for. If you are not 100% sure about your busses, just send the individual tracks and leave it to the engineer.

It can be confusing to send both busses and the individual tracks to an engineer, so I don't recommend it, they might wonder which one you actually want them to use. A good engineer will contact you to ask for the individual tracks anyway if they find any problems with a pre-mixed part.

Jumping on this thread but on another note;

How do you manage exporting of mix channels, especially when there are a few bus channels.

Do you export both the mix channel and the bus and send it to the engineer?

[estuary]

Thank you for answers,
I will continue this way but I am aware I must care about some points such as 'Maximizer' should be the last module of the chain, etc

... You absolutely cannot properly master a 10 song album in 10 different song sessions. There's no way you can do proper sequencing or create cohesion that way.

Yes, I am really worried about this actually, I am recording and mastering progressively since it's really easy to do in the song session (at least a quick master preview)
I sometimes export the songs to check and for now it's all good .. Probably because I am spending a lot of time on 'Tonal Balance' and try my best to set the curve as same as the reference.

(note: I am recording indie-pop vintage vibes and target LUFS -12~14 and dynamic range 9)

[Karim]

You're not the only one. I create, mix and master from inside Reason for thousands of tracks and released in all stores for decades!

Hi

I am wondering if I am the only one who's mastering the song into Reason DAW,
I mean, I usually mix the tracks using the Mixer etc ... and on the "Master Section" I am using ozone9 + some mastering tools.

I can bypass easily the "Master Section" and fix elements of the mix anytime if something feel wrong.
When "Master Section" is ON with ozone9 and various vst tools, I can polish the mix, check the loudness, tonal balance, and everything ... + at the same time I am still able to fix any elements of individual tracks if needed.
It's sometimes very heavy for the CPU, but my i7 can survive

If all good, I could just export as WAV and that's it, it's the final track
I am doing this way, because it sounds always good to me ! and this is the most important than follow any rules (at least this is my way)

But I writing this message, because I am curious/wondering if any of you know if there is any disadvantages doing this way or any interesting point of view, experiences, etc (especially from someone who got a lot of knowledge in mastering)

It's maybe weird but I always feel something changing on the track after exporting the mix, and re-open the mix on ozone9 then process to mastering and export
I want to avoid export, import, export ...

What do you think?

Thank you!

[Karim]

Hi and I enjoy reading these mastering tips. I ask for clarification.
Basically if I am not mistaken there is a first export for the mix itself.
Another from a mastering session and a third (if I am not mistaken) for cohesion in an Album / EP context. Correct?

Mastering in Reason is fine. Great actually.

But I suggest not doing it in the song file. The point of mastering is not only to get a final EQ and level but also to quality check what you've done. That's why it's commonly accepted that someone other than the artist or mix engineer should master, so that they can evaluate the track with fresh and "unbiased" ears. But it's also totally cool to master yourself if you feel confident. But my theory is that when I do master my own material I try to take some time away between mixing and mastering. Sometimes I don't have much time, but even a day or two can help. Also, it helps to commit to the mix and then master in an entirely separate session, especially if you are mastering an album. You absolutely cannot properly master a 10 song album in 10 different song sessions. There's no way you can do proper sequencing or create cohesion that way.

So, much like you are doing with Ozone and Tape, I have some form of tape emulation, maybe some imaging for stereo width, definitely an EQ or two, and a limiter on my final mix bus. Important note - The limiter on the mix bus is absolutely not for added volume or to achieve loudness. The limiter I use is entirely for tone and body. - I bounce my final mixes out around -3db, sometimes lower. I get the mix as near to perfect, aside from final loudness, as I can. I bounce that out as a mix and then I do mastering in an entirely different session at a different time, either just the one track or all the songs for the EP or album.

I do use Ozone for mastering...And yes, as everyone before me has said, the Ozone Maximizer or whatever limiter you use on your master should be the absolute last thing in you chain. Nothing after the final limiter or you risk digital clipping.

That's my advice...But, in the end, it's just advice. Do whatever you want! It's your music. Nothing is really right or wrong, only preferred or recommended working methods. I've done things very differently in the past and had wild success with the results. I've also tried super traditional methods and failed miserably.

"Choose your own pedals"

[selig]

There's no problem with doing your final master in Reason, but I'd put Ozone after Tape so that the maximizer can be the very last thing in the chain. Otherwise you might run into clipping.

I'd also recommend routing the Master Out into your mastering chain, and then plug your mastering chain's output directly into the Hardware Interface's first stereo output. This way, the mastering chain is after the master gain slider. (I have no idea why this isn't always the case...)

I second this, and have worked this way in reason for years. Your brick wall limiter and any added dither should be the last process in the entire signal path. The master fader comes after the master insert, so you can’t use it for limiting/dither. Besides that, I use the master insert “pre-compressor” to do my side chain filtering on the master compressor properly, so it’s not available for mastering anyway!
I wish Reason would add a dedicated mastering section in this location for all the reasons mentioned. For now I use a Combinator in that position so I can bypass everything up until the last stage where I add mastering (even though my mastering consists only of Ozone Elements!).
Side note: if mastering an album of songs I master 100% outside of the song file.

[chaosroyale]

This all depends on the context, and there are many different workflows, so my general advice to artists is try to only master once.

In other words, if you have a finished and mixed track to release as a single, you can export that mix and send it to the mastering engineer, or master it in your favorite mastering software, or master it in the DAW itself.

If that track goes on an album 6 months later, don't re-master from the single's master, go back to the finished un-mastered mix and master from there again to fit the sound of the album. The common way to do this is outside of the tracking/mixing DAW as a stand alone unified album project, as other commenters have said.

Of course, this is not always possible: you can find some albums where each track was obviously "mastered" (lets say finalized) separately, then just kind of stitched together in a very basic mastering process. And I have seen some truly disgusting chains of mastering; E.g. "Mastered" (run heavyhandedly thru a maximizer) by the artist, then Re-mastered by an engineer who used some clever multiband tricks to bring back some tonal balance and dynamics, then RE-re-mastered from that remaster when it ended up on a compilation album!

This kind of thing gives engineers nightmares, but it is also worth keeping in mind that at 3AM in a Las Vegas nightclub nobody noticed. That's not an excuse for shitty mastering, but as long as all the engineers were good at their jobs, the track probably won't end up completely unusable.

Hi and I enjoy reading these mastering tips. I ask for clarification.
Basically if I am not mistaken there is a first export for the mix itself.
Another from a mastering session and a third (if I am not mistaken) for cohesion in an Album / EP context. Correct?

[stillifegaijin]

Hi and I enjoy reading these mastering tips. I ask for clarification.
Basically if I am not mistaken there is a first export for the mix itself.
Another from a mastering session and a third (if I am not mistaken) for cohesion in an Album / EP context. Correct?

For my workflow there are only two exports. I bounce a mix out of the session file. Then, if it's a standalone single, I will open a separate session just to master that one song. Sometimes, I admit, there are exceptions, if I'm doing a remix on a tight deadline to something I will occasionally just master in the song file to speed things up, which does make it easier to make mix changes under the mastering quickly, but generally I do not. If the song(s) are for an EP or album I bounce each mix out of their respective song sessions and then import all mixes into a new session to sequence and master them together. Two be clear, each song is mastered differently, with different settings, appropriate for each song. They are not all run through the same process. They are just done in one session so that I can sequence and level match and hear how they all flow and sound together. So, for either a single or an EP/album there are only two bounces, the first mix and the second master.

Also, as much as possible depending on deadlines or budget, I still prefer to have someone else master anything I mix. I fully believe that a second, trusted opinion and set of ears really helps.