Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[Gosh]

I'm a Reason user since Version 1, I have all the Reasonstudios rack extensions, a lot of third party rack extensions and refills and this news makes me so happy that I can simply say: GOODBYE!!
I will miss you Robotic Bean, Lectric Panda, SKP Sound Design, Selig, Jiggery-Pokery etc. My only advice for the third party developers is to start creating VSTs (I will be a happy customer of your newly conceived VSTs but my investment in the Reason platform is over). It was a trend during the last years that the interest of Reasonstudios for longterm users was rapidly declining and that the focus shifted more and more to obtaining new customers. We will see how this business model works out once those who are interested in the subscription model have all applied and the newly generated income is saturated. So, once again GOODBYE, I will concentrate on Ableton Live and my VSTs from now on.
P.S. I think it's a more than shady move to not even inform the Rack extension developers about your future business plans, reminds me a lot about the situation when VST support was introduced. I think this behaviour against the RE developers makes it perfectly clear how trustworthy all your promises for your longterm customers and those who are not interested in the subscription model are.

[Yonatan]

What about a loyalty scheme that gives you an actual license after each major release cycle.

If you subscribe for the whole life of the version you get to keep it all.

£20 a month doesn't sound so bad.

Yes, I would pay that if Reason can stay updated at last point when sub ends, otherwise we cannot work on all the newer songs at all if we want to paus the subscription (many are hobby users).

[Billy+]

It's the right idea but definitely the wrong attitude

[Popey]

I dont think this is my cup of tea but will be an easier route for some people to get into reason who cannot afford the one off purchase price.

Honestly though I think this really needs to be paired with lots of workflow improvements to the sequencer etc to get people to stay as in my opinion it lacks in a lot of areas and the sole reason I now work in a different daw with the rack plugin.
People will demo different daws and compare and if I were starting out again I think reason would be a attractive proposition synth/fx wise but let down by other functionality. If your new users go on you tube and see things like track freeze , folders or vst 3 comparability meaning they cannot use certain new vst they might leave again fairly quickly.

This is not a rant in anyway and I truly hope this sustained revenue means the sequencer etc catches up.

[Loque]

Interesting that it seem to happen only on french language. Reminds me on the Telugo iOS bug or the just seen Windows crashs by typing a specific character in any adressbar or hacking a PS with special version of the latter "e". Seems like localization is still a problem in 21st century around the world

[Billy+]

I saved for Reason V1, I put money aside for upgrades, I saved for izotope advanced, I saved for a computer.

I'm not handing money over for nothing at the end of it.......

[yahsmith]

After buy reason suite when it was released and now discontinued and now I have to purchase a subscription ever month or year for patches I may never use? I guess I'll watch later with an open mind but no vote for me so far..

Dude.... nothing in this Announcement said that the suite version was discontinued...you don't have to buy the subscription....it's a choice.....

[seqoi]

Perhaps my "marketing" hat is sitting a little too tight, but I do believe this and think Reason+ can vastly expand the number of Reason users out there.

Sure... just look what a similar move did for Adobe. Their top product, which even managed to become a verb of its own, has fallen from grace pretty heavily.

Propellerheads is not Adobe!

Adobe is ENTIRELY different market.

Adobe is mostly puchased by small and big studios. Even individuals can afford it.

One , yes just one graphic design project can EASILY pay you one year of Adobe subscription. And that can be done by anyone far more easily because you can sell your graphic design to your neighbor.

You can retouch and edit photos and then sell them to your next John Doe neighbor.

Can you say the same for one Song created in Reason. No you can not.

Just stop making parallels with Adobe. Not to mention that Adobe was in unique position due monopoly. There is no real competition to Adobe. DAW world? Plenty of them.

[avasopht]

nope, its a move to subscription based model, they are forced to keep the regular license alive for sometine and it will be phased out eventually. then it will be subscription only...this is how i see it...i may be wrong... anyway...till that time i might continue to use it...

It's wrong because they can't move to a subscription-only model if it means losing all of their users.

Unlike Adobe, DAW users aren't mostly professionals making a living from it. Most DAW users are hobbyists.

For an organization, $75/mo per employee is peanuts (and they were paying roughly that same amount anyway). Ditto if you're making your living from it - and that's the all apps price (it's around $30/mo for smaller bundles).

I've even got the full Creative Cloud subscription, and I barely use it (well, not for anything I can't do in Gimp). But there's a potential work-related need. That is why Adobe can move to a subscription-only model.

The only way it would make financial sense for ReasonStudios to drop buy-to-own is if the cost of doing so exceeded the benefit, and I see little chance of that ever being the case without a massive subscription price drop.

[guitfnky]

After buy reason suite when it was released and now discontinued and now I have to purchase a subscription ever month or year for patches I may never use? I guess I'll watch later with an open mind but no vote for me so far..

Dude.... nothing in this Announcement said that the suite version was discontinued...you don't have to buy the subscription....it's a choice.....

not true, Suite has been discontinued (and I’m pretty sure that was mentioned in the RS blog post). of course it doesn’t affect you if you’ve already bought it, but if you were thinking about it and holding off, well, unfortunately now you can only either go with 11 standard, or go with the Reason+ subscription.

[EdwardKiy]

It's so absolutely fantastic and refreshing that RS reps are taking this thread head-on ) Give them a little space

here's what everyone wants to hear though: "we wanted to make our DAW accessible, now that we've done that, we will get you that divine sequencer/workflow update that you've been asking for!"

Until you say that, anything else RS release or announce will not be taken kindly by own community. Personally, I think the subscription is great to attract new users, but who cares? There's a chasm that needs to be mended.

[ShelLuser]

It's not my intention to start a whole (pointless) discussion here but... being a vivid Live user myself I somewhat felt addressed...

But FL users, Live users, Logic Users, Studio 1 users are not stupid (*well..maybe the FL users.. lol just kidding guys)

They can hear the aliasing, the steppy filters, the dull band-limited sounds. They can see how out-of-date Thor is compared to modern hypersynths, they can see how underwhelming Kong or Subtractor is compared to the competition.

Fun fact: Live's flagships (which - in my opinion - are Operator, Analog and Tension) also haven't seen any updates over the past years. Operator today is just like it was when I picked up Reason 4. So.. Thor being the same? Unsurprising, and not something exclusive for Reason Studios.

And, uhm, underwhelming? I beg to differ.

Last Holiday season I got lucky and managed to pick up on a U-HE synth bundle provided by Native Instruments. Synths like Diva, Zebra and Hive are definitely something else, I think these have the potential to bring sound design to whole new levels. Heck, Diva is even semi-modular!

But they don't outclass classics like Thor or Subtractor IMO. Not to mention that you can do some crazy stuff with Thor, things you can't do with the U-HE synths.

For example.... Absynth 5 (= classic synth from Komplete) can be used as an instrument or an FX audio effect with the emphasis on 'or'. Thor? I can combine both workflows if I wanted to, can't really pull something like that off in Live (not easily anyway, I could make it work but.. it's not "just" dragging a virtual audio output and plugging it in somewhere).

Reasons instruments are classics, just like Operator and Analog are in Live. Dated for sure, but that's about it. You can still make good music with them.

And most of all...they can already get equivalent -or better- instruments, effects and sound for FREE with VST plugins.

Can you name some examples?

Also keeping in mind that Thor and Subtractor are fully tied into the Reason workflow which automatically implies flexible routing schemes? Because I can't easily think of any

The problem is the product isn't good enough anymore, and focusing only on marketing will not help that.

The product is good enough IMO. Although I strongly (non-verbally) opposed it at first I have to agree that the rack plugin has really grown on me and it has become an essential part of my Live setup. I missed the sequencer but I filled that gap with Maschine.

It's not the product, it's the users. The main issue - as I see it - is that Reason isn't anything like your classic DAWs, it requires a completely different mindset and workflow to use it. Which is both a major advantage (IMO) but can also become a disadvantage where the learning curve is concerned. Although Live relies heavily on its session view it's not a mandatory aspect: switch modes and Live can behave like any common DAW on the market.

Reason otoh will always be special. Which means that it becomes difficult to get mainstream. At least that's how I see it.

And well, I obviously agree with you on this one: just changing the purchase model isn't going to magically change this or make the product more appealing than it already is.

(edit)

That is why Adobe can move to a subscription-only model.

They can't, and they haven't. You can still get a perpetual license for Photoshop & Premiere; within the so called Elements suite. It's not the same as the full product (it has less features) but all important and specific Photoshop features are present. It's basically Photoshop without the specific professional features which a hobbyist wouldn't use in the first place. And IMO quite good too (I recently moved from Gimp to Photoshop Elements 2019 and I'm enjoying the ride).

[Yonatan]

What about a loyalty scheme that gives you an actual license after each major release cycle.

If you subscribe for the whole life of the version you get to keep it all.

£20 a month doesn't sound so bad.

Yes maybe for professionals, but I am a home producer, maybe one hour per week, sometimes even less. This is real shitty, I cannot subscribe, from a logical point.

Yes, as you say, also my simple guess is that the ones that will be the most happy with this Reason+, are the pro´s that only want or need it for a project now and then (and for that it is good), or the ones that are full time producers who make a lot of use out of it for a living for sound design, production etc. And off course the youtuber content creators that may get free access to this to make videos and promotional content on it. But will this suite young people without a steady income? For a short while maybe, but not that sure really. Let us see. If inbuilt rent-to-own in some way or the other, it could be a win-win for all.

[plasticfractal]

This news is being greeted with universal scorn. I have not seen a single positive reaction to it. I think it would have been a much smarter tactic to include this news alongside a version release so that people could be excited for the new version (assuming it has much wanted things like VST3, high resolution screen support, etc). It would have helped emphasize that the subscription is an optional add-on for extra content, while reminding everyone that actual development work is still happening on the DAW. I hope for their sake they release some news about a version update or at least a point update, to get people thinking positive thoughts again.

[chimp_spanner]

Just to echo ShelUser somewhat, although certainly not to deflect or divert, the grass...is most certainly always greener. I picked up Live 10 Suite on sale mostly because I was curious, and it's held in very high regards. Rightly so, it's a great program! But their latest paid upgrade does not seem very consumer friendly to me. I've already dropped £££'s between buying Live 10 Suite + Push 2. I don't think comping, a chorus and like two other effects that I already have in Reason are worth what they're asking for Live 11. Just worth considering for some perspective. I was definitely expecting more!

[Shadoww]

First time post, but Reason user for 2 years. I can’t help but feel that this is Reason Studios’ Cyberpunk 2077 moment...in that they are really making a bad business decision, screwing over customers during a global pandemic just for a cash grab. So many people could loose their jobs so why do they think ANYONE wants another subscription service in 2021? A lot of us creatives are looking to cut our monthly bills down for fear of being jobless in the next 6 months! No gigs, no festival, no decent revenue from streaming...and now this. It just seems so woefully out of touch! And to promise they will keep standalone licences going can’t be trusted now as that’s what they said when I bought Reason 11 Suite...and look how long that lasted before they discontinued it.

[Heigen5]

Make it rent to buy and I'm in but subscription......

I defo agree on this one!

[Billy+]

Splice was mentioned earlier, so I thought I would take a look and oh look what I've found £16 a month for 24 months and guess what........ you own it.

IMG_2450.PNG (465.99 KiB) Viewed 5872 times

[WillyOD]

I have so many questions, thoughts and comments. I've actually almost started a few new threads and posted more replies to the staff but just decided otherwise.

I can't really think of anything positive (and staff replies feel like gunpoint marketing bullet points) so I'm gonna step back and see how this unfolds. I guess Props could get it right but if you've prepared this for a year already it's not looking too swell....

It would be nice to feel appreciated as a customer instead of feeling like all you want is NEW CUSTOMERS and MORE MONEY. It's a business I realize but I would appreciate some creativity and respect for the artists that use your tools and have supported your company in the past.

[Loque]

... I have not seen a single positive reaction to it....

Than you didnt read everything

It is expectable if things change, that ppl will react mostly negative. I can understand all the fear and negativity and i feel it here and their too.

In fact, currently nothing changed, things were just added. What the future will bring? I dont know. But i am not a big fan of subscriptions too, only if it brings something i want or need and i am willing to pay for it. everything is life has a price. Personally i already have a few subscriptions for anti virus software, tv, music, delivery, ...

[deeplink]

Splice was mentioned earlier, so I thought I would take a look and oh look what I've found £16 a month for 24 months and guess what........ you own it.

Ya but you can only try it free for 3 days, and you wont be eligible to Studio 6

[Billy+]

And you can pause. Maybe RS should consider this model not the give us your cash thanks and we will give you some "pack" that are useless if your subscription runs out....

[EdGrip]

My understanding of Suite was that it's a bundle of licenses - you own all the included Rack Extensions, in perpetuity, if you buy Suite.
So (correct me if I'm wrong), but R11 Suite owners don't lose anything. They don't, for example, lose all their bundled RE licenses if they upgrade to 12 later.

[Yonatan]

If RS brings Reason up to fully pro standard, then this sub model would be much more legit, I mean with video functionality, scoring and more "live" session capabilities etc. Because then no one would need any Logic or Cubase or whatever.

[Billy+]

Splice was mentioned earlier, so I thought I would take a look and oh look what I've found £16 a month for 24 months and guess what........ you own it.

Ya but you can only try it free for 3 days, and you wont be eligible to Studio 6

That's not my point.