Expoting an ambient loop.

[itierney]

I have a piece of ambient music that I'm trying to loop.
Its loops fine in the sequencer but when I export it clicks.

What I've tried:

• Bouncing the master, so that the midi events outside the loop boundaries are in the loop audio

• Exporting into audacity and putting small fades on with end so I have Zero crossings.

[turn2on]

Why you not export sample with more length , and after - create manually fade in and fade out, that kill clicks at loop points?
Or automatically by selecting needed samples and using Crossfade?

[MrFigg]

What are you playing back the exported loop on?

[Loque]

You have probably lots of effects on it and they sound different at the end of the loop compared to the start. So you just miss the fx on the beginning of the loop. This results in a click. You need to bounce a quite long loop including fx tails and mix the beginning, the lopped and the tail part together. If you do not want this, cut a loop within the loop, containing already all the fx (reverbs, delays and so on) - but keep in mind, that all fx you have may change ofer time like moudlating phasers, chorus and so on. Pretty difficult to get an exact loop.

I would bounce the smaple just long enough.

[selig]

You have probably lots of effects on it and they sound different at the end of the loop compared to the start. So you just miss the fx on the beginning of the loop. This results in a click. You need to bounce a quite long loop including fx tails and mix the beginning, the lopped and the tail part together. If you do not want this, cut a loop within the loop, containing already all the fx (reverbs, delays and so on) - but keep in mind, that all fx you have may change ofer time like moudlating phasers, chorus and so on. Pretty difficult to get an exact loop.

I would bounce the smaple just long enough.

But they already said it loops fine in the sequencer - I'm guessing it's either a bad selection for export or bad looping in the playback software. At least that's what I've seen in the past causing this sort of thing.

[MrFigg]

You have probably lots of effects on it and they sound different at the end of the loop compared to the start. So you just miss the fx on the beginning of the loop. This results in a click. You need to bounce a quite long loop including fx tails and mix the beginning, the lopped and the tail part together. If you do not want this, cut a loop within the loop, containing already all the fx (reverbs, delays and so on) - but keep in mind, that all fx you have may change ofer time like moudlating phasers, chorus and so on. Pretty difficult to get an exact loop.

I would bounce the smaple just long enough.

But they already said it loops fine in the sequencer - I'm guessing it's either a bad selection for export or bad looping in the playback software. At least that's what I've seen in the past causing this sort of thing.

Yep. That’s why I asked. Windows Media Player For example is totally clicky.

[Loque]

You have probably lots of effects on it and they sound different at the end of the loop compared to the start. So you just miss the fx on the beginning of the loop. This results in a click. You need to bounce a quite long loop including fx tails and mix the beginning, the lopped and the tail part together. If you do not want this, cut a loop within the loop, containing already all the fx (reverbs, delays and so on) - but keep in mind, that all fx you have may change ofer time like moudlating phasers, chorus and so on. Pretty difficult to get an exact loop.

I would bounce the smaple just long enough.

But they already said it loops fine in the sequencer - I'm guessing it's either a bad selection for export or bad looping in the playback software. At least that's what I've seen in the past causing this sort of thing.

Does the audio sample loop without clicking or the sequence? Its a big difference as i explained.

[selig]

Does the audio sample loop without clicking or the sequence? Its a big difference as i explained.

"Its loops fine in the sequencer but when I export it clicks."
(from the first post)

[Loque]

Does the audio sample loop without clicking or the sequence? Its a big difference as i explained.

"Its loops fine in the sequencer but when I export it clicks."
(from the first post)

So, i guess it's the sequence playing and not an Audio sample. Than the fx are still playing when the loop begins again. Thats different to the sample, which does not has fx at the begging.

[itierney]

What are you playing back the exported loop on?

Tried multiple things. Vlc, Audacity even bringing it back into Reason.

[itierney]

So, i guess it's the sequence playing and not an Audio sample. Than the fx are still playing when the loop begins again. Thats different to the sample, which does not has fx at the begging.

Yes it only happens with a "Sample" (audio render).
I'm aware of the difference between the midi sequence and an audio render. So I rendered it with a couple of extra bars either end, so the start of the loop would (theoretically) be the same at the end.

I also tried crossfading it into itself on either end of the loop.

The audio loop still clicks in all cases

[Loque]

So, i guess it's the sequence playing and not an Audio sample. Than the fx are still playing when the loop begins again. Thats different to the sample, which does not has fx at the begging.

Yes it only happens with a "Sample" (audio render).
I'm aware of the difference between the midi sequence and an audio render. So I rendered it with a couple of extra bars either end, so the start of the loop would (theoretically) be the same at the end.

I also tried crossfading it into itself on either end of the loop.

The audio loop still clicks in all cases

I really would like to see the fx chain, since i know, that there are often subtle changes, like LFOs, feedbacks, chains, ... All this can impact the sound.

But to make it should, just crossfade as you did and also add some blend in and out, which i do in >90% of all cases, especially at the end of the audio clip.

[itierney]

Could you clarify what you mean by? "add some blend in and out"


Regarding the FX chain
The synth signal is going through a "Scream" and "Audiomatic"

I have a
- master reverb
- send reverb

And then for mastering I have
-Mclass maximiser and Mclass Eq

Let me know if you need any more info

[MannequinRaces]

Export your sample with however long the reverb tail is. Cut it off where the loop ends and put the rest on the beginning.

[LarsK]

Export your sample with however long the reverb tail is. Cut it off where the loop ends and put the rest on the beginning.

Or, if it’s a one bar loop: loop it for two bars, and cut the the first bar our afterward.

[itierney]

So I tried chopping the end off and putting it at the front within reason.

Like this:

Screenshot 2020-09-29 at 14.46.55.png (64.25 KiB) Viewed 1869 times

Its still doesn't loop!

When I opened up the exported file in audacity, I noticed a gap of silence at the start, like this:

Screenshot 2020-09-29 at 15.02.25.png (197.64 KiB) Viewed 1869 times

Weirdly this doesn't seem to be in the audio render within reason:

Screenshot 2020-09-29 at 14.51.58.png (24.09 KiB) Viewed 1869 times

I thought one of my reverb might be introducing the silence at the start, so I turned off its pre-delay.

I could try chop off the end in Audacity but its hard to find the exact loop points outside reason.

This looks like a bug to me. Any thoughts?

[MannequinRaces]

That doesn’t look like a reverb / delay trail... it looks like more music. How long is the sample you are exporting? It doesn’t matter how long the tail is but the whole thing needs to be included. If you are exporting one bar and the reverb tail lasts longer than that you need a longer loop to accommodate a longer tail. Another thought is to alter the composition to provide a better transition point. Reason is perfectly capable of doing this kind of thing correctly. I’ve done it many times before.

[itierney]

Its an 8 bar loop. What youre seeing is the 9th bar moved to the start so that the start should match the end exactly.
Surely if the start of the 9th bar, is moved to the first the end will match the beginning perfectly?

In any case it shouldn't have silence at the start.

[selig]

So I tried chopping the end off and putting it at the front within reason.

Like this:
Screenshot 2020-09-29 at 14.46.55.png

Its still doesn't loop!

When I opened up the exported file in audacity, I noticed a gap of silence at the start, like this:
Screenshot 2020-09-29 at 15.02.25.png

Weirdly this doesn't seem to be in the audio render within reason:
Screenshot 2020-09-29 at 14.51.58.png

I thought one of my reverb might be introducing the silence at the start, so I turned off its pre-delay.

I could try chop off the end in Audacity but its hard to find the exact loop points outside reason.

This looks like a bug to me. Any thoughts?

Is there a limiter on the mix bus? These can cause the gaps you show in your images.

[itierney]

Yeah the limiter had a 4ms look ahead. When I turned it off, the gap moved.
Still won't loop though.
Ian