Controlling Reason with Multiple BCF2000 and BCR2000

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mcatalao
Posts: 1083
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 08 Nov 2019

Hi guys...

First and foremost this is the fruit of some hard work i did with regards to Remote maps, and it is something i worked and been using since record came out.

At that time, Propellerheads, now Reason Studios had their own forum, and i shared all this info with people there.
Some years ago, when the PUF was killed, i had no idea where to put this info, and i shared it in a forum on Facebook but it didn't have much traction. I guess the BCF's are not so used together with reason, maybe because of some frustration.

The behringers bcf/R2000 are 2 of the oldest controllers around, they were inspired in Mackie hardware, as a lot of behringer's stuff, but they are still valuable items in a humble Daw based project/home studio.

So, since 10 years have passed since i did the first posts, and the way people learn now is more video based, i did a youtube presentation about my setup. If you have the patience for an odd accent, a lot of mumbling and really bad editing, you can listen to my explanation video here:



However if your more of a reading guy, i'll post in the second thread, an explanation on how to edit your Remote file to get the same functionality from a pair (or more) Bcf's. IF you don't have bcf's, the thread is worth for the info, because i think it will apply to other controllers.


PS.: If you're lazy and just want a quick fix, you can go to the attachments section and get the BCF2000 remote file. It's only worth it if you have multiple bcf2000, or if you like my arrangement better. And it won't break anything if you have a single BCF2000.
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Last edited by mcatalao on 08 Nov 2019, edited 2 times in total.

mcatalao
Posts: 1083
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 08 Nov 2019

Here's the text on the original thread, recovered from the old PUF:

--EDIT:

Previous readers of this thread might have noticed i changed the thread name. And yep. Thats true. Record is dead, long live the King Reason!

Anyway, every single line you read ahead applies to reason 6, and you can download a new remote file for Reason 6, and up to 4 BCF2000 units, controlling from 1 to chn 32!

Have fun!
--- Edit End

Hi all.

As some might have seen in past threads, i am a proud record user with 2 Behringer BCF2000 and a BCR2000 config for controlling the ssl mixer.

I like this configuration so much that if i had the space i would buy another 2!

Before Record, I used this configuration in Cubase, with no problems. As matter of fact, cubase has some nice controlling features, and the BCF2000 works greatly with it.

So as soon as Record appeared with its amasing SSL mixer (at the time i was beta testing Record 1) i started to try to configure the pair of BCF2000's.

To see Both BCF2000's as a bcf and reason/record settings, you should configure it to Communication Type U1, Mode BC, and program 4. If you're not aware of these configuration, you should check Behringers manual (the manual is very bad, but anyway...).

U1 means usb, BC is Behringer Control, and Program 4 was the program configured with the midi CC sends that Reason and record recognizes. If you altered the BCF2000 it's really important that you reset the Program 4 to the default configuration with the bcf configuration tool that behringers provides.


Firstly, to control the SSL, you lock Both BCF's to the SSL mixer. To do so, you select the master channel, and choose Lock BCF2000 1 and BCF2000 2. This is pretty standard, right?

Ok, if your ssl mixer doesnt have any channels created, nothing happens (you might listen to the BCF's reseting the faders to 0). Now start creating some tracks, and you will find that for each created track the BCF's will move a fader.

Now, theres a catch. BCF 1 and BCF 2 will move faders at the same time, and both BCF's control the same channels.

At this point i tried some different aproaches:
1 - Define full remote overrides for each channel.
I worked like this for some time. This is tedious, because you will have to do this for all your projects, and you only be able to control 16 channels.
2 - Define full remote overrides for channel 1 to 8, and let BCF 2 controll the rest of the SSL Mixer.
This works. But it's very confusing, because you might have bcf 1 controlling 1-8, and bcf 2 will be controlling 25-32...
3 - Try to put it working correctly.


So on to option 3... (Note that i'm goint to attach the Remote file here, but i'm explaing the process because as you will see next you can have as much BCF2000 as you wish - at least as much as you can select by the map process)

At that time, i had a lot of help because several people on the Beta forum explained me how remote files worked and there were also other guys trying to achieve this.

So in the meantime, i remembered at some point that in Reason, i could control channels 9-14 of the 14:2 mixer, and that mixer didn't have base channels (the functionality that allows you to control all ssl chanels advancing back and forth).

Ok, so i started checking out the configuration of the 14:2 in the BCF2000 remote file, and found it had groups configurated. The other thing i found was that if i had the 2 bcf2000 locked to the 14:2 and toggled the right most one to channels 9:14, the leftmost one wouldn't follow... Mind that this is VERY important, because as you remember, both mixers were controlling both channels in the SSL.

The group feature is used all over the place in the remote files. I haven't found yet how it is used in other devices like kong, but in the 14:2, it defined channel groups 1-8 and 9-14.

So if you look to the 14:2 mixer configuration you have:
- the group definition´
- a line that maps the preveious and next button to the channel groups
- All channel configurations mapped to the channel group, and duplicated for channel groups 1-8 and 9-14.

So, then i found that if i tried this in record in the 14:2 mixer, this would work too, so the group functionality works also in record (at least in the 14:2 mixer).

Ok... Since i found multiple calls to these group functions, i thought i'd give it a try at the SSL.

Next step is to go to the ssl mixer definitions and define the groups just like in the 14:2 mixer.
The only diference, is that the second group will be 9-16, and not 9-14:

Define Group Channels Ch1-8 Ch9-16


Next, you must map the previous and next button to the channel groups, just like the 14:2.

Map Preset Left Button Channels=Ch1-8



Map Preset Right Button Channels=Ch9-16

Now the tricky part.

Select faders definition, copy and paste right at the bottom.
At the copyed section, change Channel 1 to Channel 9,
Channel 2 to Channel 10 and so on up to cHANNEL 16.

You have to connect the faders to the groups.
Copy the channel group definition Chn1-8 and paste it in the end of faders 1 to 8.
I advise you to copy this from the 14:2 section, because the remote files formating is a bit strange...

Do the same for the faders 9-16, and rename the group to 9-16.

So, the Faders section should look like this:

Map Fader 1 Channel 1 Level Ch1-8
.
.
.
Map Fader 8 Channel 8 Level Ch1-8

Map Fader 1 Channel 9 Level Ch9-16
.
.
.
.
Map Fader 8 Channel 16 Level Ch9-16

Ok, are you still with me???

Now, just so that you believe me, lets try this in record.

In order to "see" your changes do this:
1 - First save your remote file.
2 - Open record.
3 - The BCF's will load up. Though... Unless you disable and re-enable them you wont see the changes. So in properties -> control surfaces, disable and reenable each BFC in the tick box.
4 - Lock the Both BCF2000 to the SSL mixer. Press right button in the master channel and lock them to the ssl.
5 - Start creating some tracks. They will still be in "unison" but dont panic. Press the Nex button on the SECOND BCF2000. At this point the second bcf 2000 will detach itself from the first and all faders will reset to 0.
6 - Keep creating some tracks untill you see some faders going up in the second bcf unit.
7 - Now, if you paid attention... as soon as you altered the previous and next button functionality, you loose the back and forth in the ssl mixer, because it is mapped to those buttons. HOWEVER, the next and previous 8 base channel is a remote overrideable function. Go to Properties, remote override mapping. At the end you will find the Next and previous 8 base channel controls. Select them and configure them for BCF 1 previous and nex buttons.
8 - Try going forth and back with the left BCF2000 previous and next preset buttons. Check if the second bcf follows it. If all is working, save that record song as a template.

Ok, now.. We stopped configuring the remote file, and now we have to reconfigure all other controls (mute solo and whatever you want). I'm not going to explain it because... It is just the same as the faders, ok? Though if you have any doubts the remote file in attach, has the following controls configured:
- Pan
- Wide
- Mute
- Solo
And some more stuff...

Ok, now for the REALLY interesting part...

Imagine you need a third one...
It's rather simple actually.

So, you go to the Mixer configuration, and create a third group 17-24.
Then Create all faders, and controlls you want connected to group 17-24, with all those channels correctly configured. It's just the same, ok?

Then here's the catch (there's always a catch... ), the prev and next button, is not really working as prev and next button. Actually we are MAPPING those buttons. So, you have to map EXTRA buttons to the third group.
For testing purposes lets test mapping the third group to the Exit button:

- First you will need to go to the document section and remove the exit button (don't delete it, comment it with '//' ). This is needed, so that the load doens't give you an error.
- Then right at the bottom of the "Map preset left button " line, create this:
Map Exit Button Channels=Ch17-24

And that's it.

So, each time you open a song, you just press BCF2 Preset Right Button, then BCF 3 Exit. Now the BCF 1 controlls 1-8, BCF2 controlls 9-16, BCF 3 controls 17-24. Then if you go forth and back with BCF2000 1 next and prev buttons, it will move the base channel and all other bcfs at the same time.

You can configure this in any button.

Ok guys, i hope this thread explains well how this is achieved.

I tried to put the 2 BCF2000 working together as one with midi chaining with no success and this was the way i found most usefull. The only handicap to this is that each time you open record or a new song, you will have to press the next button in the second bcf (and the other mappings in additional bcf's), but really... I can live with that.

To me the fact that you only advance 8 channels at a time, in the base channel is not an issue.

I'm sure this applyes to other surfaces ( the group and map thing is not a surface configuration, so if you have a mackie or something like that it will surely help you).

I hope this helps!

MC

mcatalao
Posts: 1083
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 08 Nov 2019

Finally, if you're still with me, and can put up with my accent and mumbling, you can watch how this whole things come together with the addition of an automation tool called autohotkey. With this, i can wrap together the BCF's and the BCR2000, making sure i have a good relation between fader position, the channels i want to edit on the BCR2000, and other nice stuff i did.

If you guys are interested about automation, i was thinking about creating an additional video about it, explaining how reason behaves on some contexts that you can automate for speed up some stuff.

So, again... If you're still with me, and can put up with my funny accent and mumbling, head up to this one:


tanni
Posts: 104
Joined: 19 Jul 2015

Post 09 Nov 2019

wow, thanks for the explanation. I have only one BCR2000 using with Reason because I had thougt, that more than one from the same device (BCR/BCF) dont function. So, you cant use more than ONE BCR2000 and ONE BCF2000 at the same time (Im on windows 64bit), because of the drivers / driver conflicts.....how do you install the drivers on your system for all your BCFs ?

mcatalao
Posts: 1083
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 09 Nov 2019

Hi tanni,

You can use as manny BCR2000/BCF2000 as you want because windows will identify each BCF/BCR as a different device (and reason also recognises them separately too).The problem with Reason, is that the remote file is the same for every BCF. So when you start selecting stuff on the first bcf, the second will do the same in the same place. That's where the Group trick is important.

I would just advise you to get the Behringer driver and install it if you go that route:
https://www.behringer.com/Categories/Be ... ans(en|en)

Anyway, I just don't think there is much use for multiple bcr's, but there are guys in Gearslutz using multiple and making consoles with 3BCF's + 3 bcrs... Crazy but makes all sense if you have the space.

If you watch my second video closely, i use the BCF's to control the stuff that make up for your mixer balance, and the BCR for more detailed stuff. So for example if i'm on the levelling phase, i probably only work at the BCF's, but if i'm taking care of eq, compression and inserts, i will work on the BCR and use the BCF's almost only as quick selectors for the single devices. Like a selection mode (i solo, track gets selected, context in reason is set by the autohotkey script, i then take care of what i need, then maybe work over leveling and gain again. So i go back and forth with the bcf's and bcr, but they have their specific functions in the setup).

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gullum
Posts: 583
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Faroe Islands

Post 09 Nov 2019

this should mean that having an X-Touch with a few extenders should work too

mcatalao
Posts: 1083
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 09 Nov 2019

gullum wrote:
09 Nov 2019
this should mean that having an X-Touch with a few extenders should work too
Sure! With the potential to work even better, as i (want to) believe Behringer has a better management of the extenders in the x-touch. My idea is that when you extend, you should have a main and a couple of slaves, and the map could go up to the sum of extended channels without having to create groups. I would have to test it though, and tbh, I won't buy other controllers unless these die or reason stops supporting them.

But... As i said in the video and the text, this applies to any control surface that has the same limitations.

mcatalao
Posts: 1083
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 09 Nov 2019

BTW, just to give some additional context...

The Group function works like a bank, that affects the whole mapped device. In the case of other devices, you already have it on Kong, Redrum, and so on.
The usage is so that if you have a reason device that has way more controls than your midi controller, you can use the groups as banks to control more stuff.

Additionally... Banks can be selected by controller keys that you assign in the remote file. Or they also can be controlled by keyboard keys (if you look at redrum there are cascaded groups for different modes, and the top group is controlled by keyboard accelerators.

mcatalao
Posts: 1083
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 09 Nov 2019

PS.: I'm cooking something very cool for remote! Stay tuned!

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