Announcing Reason 11

[OverneathTheSkyBridg]

One advantage of developing RE now is that it's instantly multiplatform in all DAWs as long as you buy Reason.
They should make a very thin VST version of Reason only hosting a single RE with near-zero overhead. Give that for free, and people will swarm to Rack Extensions. They get their own unified store, unified architecture etc.

I think that's going to be the eventual result. This update was aimed at existing users that either ditched Reason for another DAW or used it with Rewire. Once they've got those people updating and worked out all the kinks I can definitely see them offering a cheap or free VST wrapper to entice a further customer demographic. Very smart move on Reason's part, I can't fault them for this update even though it doesn't have much for me as a standalone user.

[Creativemind]

What's the most amount of pages a thread has had on Reasontalk, is this it?

Looks like the "official" launch thread for Reason 9 was just 17 pages:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7494758

But then there was a separate 17 page thread saying how bad Reason 9 was:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7494821

So technically, that's... 34 pages dedicated to Reason 9?

The launch thread for 9.5 made it to 41 pages:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7500299

And the launch thread for 10 made it to 49 pages:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7503208

I do love a good stat lol!

[Creativemind]

What's the most amount of pages a thread has had on Reasontalk, is this it?

Probably some thread about "The Reason sound". At least if you add them all together.

If you add them together you'd be over hundred.

[Loque]

What's the most amount of pages a thread has had on Reasontalk, is this it?

Looks like the "official" launch thread for Reason 9 was just 17 pages:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7494758

But then there was a separate 17 page thread saying how bad Reason 9 was:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7494821

So technically, that's... 34 pages dedicated to Reason 9?

The launch thread for 9.5 made it to 41 pages:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7500299

And the launch thread for 10 made it to 49 pages:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7503208

I had the feeling, that there were more comments on R11 than the versions before. Thanks for clarification and evidence.

[Breach The Sky]

One advantage of developing RE now is that it's instantly multiplatform in all DAWs as long as you buy Reason.
They should make a very thin VST version of Reason only hosting a single RE with near-zero overhead. Give that for free, and people will swarm to Rack Extensions. They get their own unified store, unified architecture etc.

Ha, I just suggested the exact same thing to the company previously known as Propellerhead Software!

Question is, do they really have RE developers best interest in mind?

[joeyluck]

What's the most amount of pages a thread has had on Reasontalk, is this it?

I think a more interesting statistic would be most amount of unique posters/posts.

[EnochLight]

Oh shit, that’s a much better idea! I liked the idea of Serato Sample being a VST that I can use in Reason, but looks like MPC Software suppers VSTs so I could use R11 rack with it.

Yeah, the MPC Software not only supports VST, you can also run the MPC Software as a VST in any DAW you want, so if you've put some banger together on your MPC Live (or X, or Force) in standalone, you can then import the project on the desktop MPC Software and open said project inside of the MPC Software running as a VST in any DAW, and continue to work on it there. It's almost like running Reason in ReWire mode into another DAW, without all of the limitations.

Full disclosure: while the MPC Software itself can also function as a free-standing DAW, I don't particularly like to run it like that. It's much better suited to being a plugin itself or just running as a front end for your MPC controller, Live, X, etc...

[hurricane]

If I WERE to buy another DAW it would DEFINITELY be Logic Pro. I’m really thinking about it now but my fear is how to transfer everything from Reason? Will I have to make everything audio files and start over with Logic’s midi instruments and fx? My vocals and guitars are all audio so no big deal but what about all the synths & stuff? I don’t see how there’s any way to transfer my Reason midi files but honestly, if it’s possible I will most likely do it and sell my Reason license. Never thought I would say that but it’s clear after all these years that in the end of disappointing anticipation, Reason is not what I was looking for.

I already own Logic Pro but transferring my reason projects over to logic is the problem for me as well. Its not a question of how to do it for me, I know exactly how its just a daunting task. Thinking about it now that's the only reason I haven't left reason completely yet. The tedious task of transferring over but I've already started the process to jump ship it'll just be a week or two to fully complete.

Not sure what kinds of problems the other guy has exporting midi from Reason and importing it into Logic, but I do it all the time and it's a breeze. And with the Reason Rack, transferring projects into Logic is going to be easier since you can now use the same instruments in both. All it's going to take is a little organization. Save all your presets into a specific project folder, export midi and audio, import all into Logic and assign the tracks to the correct instruments.

[2chris]

I'm super conflicted on this update, and I'm not excited like I was with 10. 10 spoiled us and was the best version of Reason ever. I'm leaning toward getting Suite to grab the great rack extentions (except I bought my two favorites already and get no discount - bummer). Part of me likes it because I prefer working in Ableton Live and I can have the best of both by loading the rack VST into Live. The conflicted part is because it kind of signals the end of them refining their DAW, and that they are going a different direction. Could you imagine Ableton saying we've built this feature where you can run our software in a better DAW to use our instruments and FX? I can't, because the biggest appeal is their full suite of tools and workflow. I really wanted sequencer updates, from Live and Reason to be on par with Logic and Cubase, and once Steinberg did their 50% off I figured I'd try that since it appears to have the best sequencer out there right now. So far so good, but it doesn't appeal to a beginner at all - and there is a usability trade off you make versus Live and Reason. I've use so many DAW's, and in a few ways you are trading things away for pro level features.

I've been super happy with Reason 10. So I'm not really disappointed with the company - it's just the direction they took as a company to go away from being a DAW baffles me. Are they trying to be an instrument company like Native Instruments? Who knows? Maybe they're doing this as a way to also transition toward a version of Reason for iOS/Android and they've already explored ways to run it in new operating systems if they get it running well as a plugin.

For them, I think it's smart to work on many platforms because they don't have a team to keep up with Cubase, Studio One, Live, Logic, and maybe even FL Studio. They are doing their own things, and they don't really need to get into that battle if they can pump out great instruments and FX. Their biggest problem however is that there are better VST's that exist on a one-off basis than what they've created. Every instrument I love from Propellerheads, I can tell you a VST that is objectively better. It's just the fun package and value they give you because you gets lots of great and compelling stuff at once when you buy Reason. They are kind of in no-man's land if they continue on like this, where as a daw they aren't better than other offerings, and as an instrument they aren't better than Komplete (or Uhe). The niche they have left is to add users on other DAW's, and to carve out a value proposition where you can do lots of stuff at one reasonable price point.

For the novice, their tool is amazing, and unlike the hardcore people in this forum - they won't be complaining about workflow, the dated sequencer, or how they screwed up things in the past. You can start making music fast in Reason. It's a great option to compare against Live Lite, FL Studio, and Logic as a new user. A newer user isn't going to compare this to Cubase/Logic/S1 and say OMG this has holes and they are admitting defeat as a company because it works inside of other tools. If you can think outside of your situation, you will see that strategically this makes sense, even if it offends you as an old user.

[Arrant]

I keep thinking back to Reason 8 which showcased a drag'n'drop browser pane as its tentpole feature, coupled with a few rudimentary sequencer enhancements like resizing a note from both sides. Is R11 really more underwhelming than that?

No, R8 was the most underwhelming update in the history of Reason.

[yahsmith]

I hate subscription...the way that reason or ableton is now I can buy It straight out and if I don’t like the next update I can stay on whatever version I have, you don’t have to keep shelling out money...

Ableton charged me $249 for an update and Reason charged me $119 for the last one. What do I care whether I pay that over time for rolling updates or a monolithic updates. The rolling update is just a better way to meet customer requirements better than the monolithic update. Engineers need to be paid for their time, and there are features I would like in a more timely fashion. Your entitled to your opinion, but you don't have to be knee jerk dismissive to the realities. Look at the 29 pages of complaints.

Your response would be knee jerk also....maybe they do both so people who want to pay monthly can do that and the people who don’t want to can just buy it straight out.....everyone don’t Need to upgrade every time and a lot of people don’t..


Just hear me out..I stoped at Reason 5 and moved to logic but still made beats in Reason 5 once in a while. I would not want to pay for a product monthly that I was not using that much..but still wanted to some type of access to it when I want.I ended up back on reason 9 and 10....I do see the value for the people who like being up to date all the time so I was not saying you was wrong

[Yonatan]

I just stumbled across this video on youtube, and I think he sums it up very good the mixed opinions and points about Reason 11, the balace between the good and bad, without getting into conspiracy theories. I can relate to his thoughts, only difference is I am leaning at Logic more than Ableton Live (but I must admit Live has quite a few gemstones) mainly because I already has it from a student time. I really hope RS listen very keenly to the valid points expressed by many and try to adjust.

[Spaceship]

It would be nice if they added a sensitivity feature for sample slicing.

[EdGrip]

I don't mind optional software subscription - I will not tolerate subscription-only models. Adobe lost me that way.

In the future, it might be that there is no alternative and the tyranny of software subscriptions is universal. Ergh.

Software engineers get paid whatever model the company uses. Subscription models are invariably the most expensive way to use software. It blows my mind that people pay for Roland Cloud.

[EnochLight]

It would be nice if they added a sensitivity feature for sample slicing.

Now that we have proper vertical zoom in the sequencer in 11 as well as the previous horizontal, I totally agree! Really hope a slice sensitivity slider is added during the 11.x point updates.

[toddbooster]

Now that this thread is quieting down and everyone is exhausted after two days of this, I figure it's time for me to have my say.

A solid "Meh."

But who am I kidding? Of course I'm gonna buy it. I'll just wait for a sale.

[Luxuria]

What bothers me still 2-3 days after this announcement is that nothing Phead's have brought to table they feel comfortable to let stand on its own.

The VST is being sold AS the reason version upgrade, when it clearly can only run outside of the DAW. Why not release it independently? If it's because it makes the rest of the upgrade looks less enticing, well maybe you should have put in more features...

The Suite is being sold as a tier upgrade, but no statements on being able to buy it separately. Why? All but 1 of the devices are old. Well, processed piano has been out for a month, so not that old. I still stand by my prediction that all Phead's devices haven't been selling well at all so they bundled them all up in an offer only available IF you upgrade to Reason11.

It's a shady business model in my opinion.

Let the quality of the products speak for themselves.

[gullum]

I still stand by my prediction that all Phead's devices haven't been selling well at all so they bundled them all up in an offer only available IF you upgrade to Reason11.

In the rack extension forum, there is a pool how many of the RE's in suite people have and 57% have more than 6 of the devices so going by that I think their devices have sold quite well

[Luxuria]

I still stand by my prediction that all Phead's devices haven't been selling well at all so they bundled them all up in an offer only available IF you upgrade to Reason11.

In the rack extension forum, there is a pool how many of the RE's in suite people have and 57% have more than 6 of the devices so going by that I think their devices have sold quite well

I count 58 total votes between owning 1-6 RE's in the suite.
In terms of development cost, I don't think that paid the salaries of all the people involved.

Some of the top rated RE's in the shop have 300+ user ratings (that's not including the ones that bought but didn't rate).

Edited as I have looked at the other devices: Phead's (newer) devices have less then 20 ratings. Older devices like Complex-1 sits at 71 ratings. Parsec did very well with 600+ ratings!

I apologise for speaking incorrectly on the numbers. Newer devices don't seem to be doing as well as older devices. Or I see it more so as devices they repackaged using their old refills aren't as popular as newer creative devices.

[gullum]

In the rack extension forum, there is a pool how many of the RE's in suite people have and 57% have more than 6 of the devices so going by that I think their devices have sold quite well

I count 58 total votes between owning 1-6 RE's in the suite.
In terms of development cost, I don't think that paid the salaries of all the people involved.

Some of the top rated RE's in the shop have 300+ user ratings (that's not including the ones that bought but didn't rate).

Phead's devices have less then 20 ratings for the devices I've observed.

I added up to % not the votes so that means 43% have less than 6 devices in the suite but that is only for users here that have answered the pool

[rgdaniel]

Lots of folks saying "why not release Reason Rack VST as a separate product?" Not sure how that would work. Can't quite wrap my brain around it. Surely the VST is linked to Reason itself in some way. Like, if you buy a new RE for Reason, it would automatically be visible in the VST as well. And the code to make that happen doesn't exist in Reason 10, so you would need Reason 11 anyway. Surely the VST is accessing the same actual RE's on your HD as the main program, or you'd have duplicates of everything.

[Last Alternative]

Will they send us new dongles that says 'Reason Studios' at no extra charge?
Will our 'Propellerhead' dongles be collectors items worth a fortune someday?
Does anyone even still use their dongle? (I don't).

[toddbooster]

Does anyone even still use their dongle? (I don't).

No. I have a subscription, and my iLock and elicenser don't need any new friends.

[guitfnky]

Lots of folks saying "why not release Reason Rack VST as a separate product?" Not sure how that would work. Can't quite wrap my brain around it. Surely the VST is linked to Reason itself in some way. Like, if you buy a new RE for Reason, it would automatically be visible in the VST as well. And the code to make that happen doesn't exist in Reason 10, so you would need Reason 11 anyway. Surely the VST is accessing the same actual RE's on your HD as the main program, or you'd have duplicates of everything.

agreed, it shouldn’t be treated/released separately. their mistake was making that the flagship feature of the release. if they’d given us a bunch more features/improvements and touted those as the main reason to upgrade, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

core users would be more like “hey, this update is awesome! can’t wait to see how smooth the new workflow is!”, and everyone else who uses other DAWs (whether seriously, or just dabbling): “wow, I can’t believe I’m going to get to use Reason in my DAW as a VST!”

and having a more feature-rich DAW would make it more enticing for people who buy Reason 11 for use in their DAWs to actually open up the Reason DAW and play around in it, instead of leaving it to collect dust on their hard drive.

[Luxuria]

Lots of folks saying "why not release Reason Rack VST as a separate product?" Not sure how that would work. Can't quite wrap my brain around it. Surely the VST is linked to Reason itself in some way. Like, if you buy a new RE for Reason, it would automatically be visible in the VST as well. And the code to make that happen doesn't exist in Reason 10, so you would need Reason 11 anyway. Surely the VST is accessing the same actual RE's on your HD as the main program, or you'd have duplicates of everything.

I'm not sure what your thought process is with it being linked to Reason? The RRP is a VST file, it's separate from the DAW. A similar example is Ozone. You've got a standalone version and a VST version. Both independent of each other.

If you want to use RRP in another DAW you're going to have to move the VST file into the plugins folder of that DAW or specify location of the VST while in the other DAW.

The authorizer will probably overlayed the same but you won't have to have Reason DAW open to run RRP VST.
The RE's you load into the RRP can have their own location on the hard drive in the RE folder without having Reason DAW installed.