Work space dividers & general screen layout rant :)

[antic604]

I don't know if that's their official name, but those things circled in red...



...really need to go!

They take useful space on laptop/single screen. Does anyone drag them to adjust visibility of the work spaces? Does anyone click those circles to hide or collapse the areas? A few pixels-thin line would more than suffice, like in any other software! Also, what does this window at the bottom of Browser even do? Why can't I hit F11 to hide Windows' top bar along with the menu (I use it very rarely, so I can bring it back with F11 when needed, like I do in Live10).

BTW, without saying more, 10.2 beta makes this even worse...

Also, why can't I arrange my work space like this - it's such a no brainer with both rack and mixer organised vertically and the focus dynamically switching to proper device and channel respectively, when sequencer track is touched. I can't really understan why it's not there:

[Luxuria]

Also, why can't I arrange my work space like this - it's such a no brainer with both rack and mixer organised vertically and the focus dynamically switching to proper device and channel respectively, when sequencer track is touched. I can't really understand why it's not there:

I strongly agree with this idea. At times I feel like I get lost in Reason too easily. It becomes a struggle just to find something real quick in all 3 views. The workflow Reason excels in having all 3 mindsets (seq, rack, mixer) all on one screen. Streamlining the display wouldn't hurt when you guys at Pheads get to 4k support upgrade.

[hurricane]

Yeah, they're ok the way they are currently.

To those of you not participating in the beta, I suggest you download it right away, give it a good look, and add your feedback to the internal beta discussion board.

[antic604]

Yeah, they're ok the way they are currently.

You know something we don't?

To those of you not participating in the beta, I suggest you download it right away, give it a good look, and add your feedback to the internal beta discussion board.

I wrote a pretty comprehensive report yesterday - go ahead and leave some feedback if you feel like it

[househoppin09]

Yes, the dividers are extremely annoying, which is one of the reasons I exclusively use Reason with the rack and mixer split off into their own windows. No dividers at all in the mixer window, only the "Browser" divider in the rack window, and just that plus the "Sequencer" one in the sequencer window. All three windows can then be maximized; when using a single monitor, F5/F6/F7 to switch between views works fine. Much more tolerable, though not quite as good as being able to get rid of the dividers altogether. I highly recommend this approach. Yes, one does miss being able to work with more than one view at the same time, but to do that properly really does require a multi-monitor setup (or 4K, I suppose).

[antic604]

one does miss being able to work with more than one view at the same time, but to do that properly really does require a multi-monitor setup (or 4K, I suppose).

You know, it's really a matter of getting used to it and if it's your day job or just a hobby.

I'm on a 12'' Surface Pro 4 and I could easily work like this...



...but definitely not like this! Look at all the wasted space:

[Creativemind]

Yes, the dividers are extremely annoying, which is one of the reasons I exclusively use Reason with the rack and mixer split off into their own windows.

Exactly what I do. Another thing I'd recommend to a newbie is to uncheck the box 'load default patch into new devices' so devices always load up initialized / reset auromatically.

[Ixus]

Why didnt I think of that!
The second pic looks perfect

[selig]

...but definitely not like this! Look at all the wasted space:

I prefer to think of that as "space waiting to be filled" rather than being "wasted".

Seriously, if you have side by side racks (and I do), and you have lots of mixer channels (and I do), that space is not wasted.

Screen Shot 2018-09-05 at 10.59.07 AM.png (1010.25 KiB) Viewed 3838 times

Still, I can see that the ability to arrange the Views as you wish would be nice, IF it can be done elegantly and without clutter etc.

[antic604]

I prefer to think of that as "space waiting to be filled" rather than being "wasted".

But I'm not talking ONLY about those empty spaces! Even on your picture the issue is quite clear: 2 sequencer tracks, a quarter of device the size of Thor or Europa, just the faders or maybe part of the EQ or dynamics section in the Mixer.

If Rack and Mixer could be aligned vertically, then both would be much easier to use on a small, single screen as they're both laid out vertically.

[selig]

I prefer to think of that as "space waiting to be filled" rather than being "wasted".

But I'm not talking ONLY about those empty spaces! Even on your picture the issue is quite clear: 2 sequencer tracks, a quarter of device the size of Thor or Europa, just the faders or maybe part of the EQ or dynamics section in the Mixer.

If Rack and Mixer could be aligned vertically, then both would be much easier to use on a small, single screen as they're both laid out vertically.

I agree it would be helpful, but certainly not in the case I demonstrated - which is why it's best to allow flexibility, as long as it can be done elegantly without additional clutter or "feature bloat".

In my example, I would see fewer mixer channels laid out like yours. But also note, you're compared one screen with the browser open, and one with the browser closed, which is not a fair comparison, right?

But just to be clear, I'm agreeing with you that there should be the option as you suggest.

However, your first post does nothing to address the issue of work space dividers, which can be dealt with easily IMO. All you need is smaller dividers and ditch the button and text label. Nothing would be lost with that approach IMO. Here's a quick mockup that shows over 60 pixels gained by ditching these, which equals around 3 sequencer tracks or one more instrument/Mix Channel in the rack (using the smallest size in both cases), but not necessarily a huge gain for the browser fwiw:

Screen Shot 2018-09-05 at 12.32.28 PM.png (969.08 KiB) Viewed 3784 times

[joeyluck]

I prefer to think of that as "space waiting to be filled" rather than being "wasted".

But I'm not talking ONLY about those empty spaces! Even on your picture the issue is quite clear: 2 sequencer tracks, a quarter of device the size of Thor or Europa, just the faders or maybe part of the EQ or dynamics section in the Mixer.

If Rack and Mixer could be aligned vertically, then both would be much easier to use on a small, single screen as they're both laid out vertically.

While on the topic, here's a couple options I proposed for rearranging the windows.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7492856

To me, it feels unnatural to not have the mixer at the bottom. Because in the real world, the faders are the closest thing to my hands. And it's also the arrangement many other DAWs use. Having the Mixer be vertical would also be helpful, placing the faders at the bottom and giving a nice view of more of the channel strip while still being able to view other things.

I do like detaching the windows sometimes on macOS and using full screen mode to toggle between screens. But it's also helpful to see a little of everything at once. I think the bars could be slightly smaller, but I admit, it's easy to see the dividing points. I wouldn't want them to be much smaller. I do use them to resize.

[selig]

While on the topic, here's a couple options I proposed for rearranging the windows.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7492856

To me, it feels unnatural to not have the mixer at the bottom. Because in the real world, the faders are the closest thing to my hands. And it's also the arrangement many other DAWs use. Having the Mixer be vertical would also be helpful, placing the faders at the bottom and giving a nice view of more of the channel strip while still being able to view other things.

I do like detaching the windows sometimes on macOS and using full screen mode to toggle between screens. But it's also helpful to see a little of everything at once. I think the bars could be slightly smaller, but I admit, it's easy to see the dividing points. I wouldn't want them to be much smaller. I do use them to resize.

There are tons of major apps with smaller dividing bars, and they work great. Am working with Divinci Resolve today, so I'll post that as one example:
(for reference, these bars are half the size as I made for the Reason mockup above)

Screen Shot 2018-09-05 at 1.16.06 PM.png (160.01 KiB) Viewed 3768 times

[joeyluck]

While on the topic, here's a couple options I proposed for rearranging the windows.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7492856

To me, it feels unnatural to not have the mixer at the bottom. Because in the real world, the faders are the closest thing to my hands. And it's also the arrangement many other DAWs use. Having the Mixer be vertical would also be helpful, placing the faders at the bottom and giving a nice view of more of the channel strip while still being able to view other things.

I do like detaching the windows sometimes on macOS and using full screen mode to toggle between screens. But it's also helpful to see a little of everything at once. I think the bars could be slightly smaller, but I admit, it's easy to see the dividing points. I wouldn't want them to be much smaller. I do use them to resize.

There are tons of major apps with smaller dividing bars, and they work great. Am working with Divinci Resolve today, so I'll post that as one example:
(for reference, these bars are half the size as I made for the Reason mockup above)
Screen Shot 2018-09-05 at 1.16.06 PM.png

Right. And what you have isn't too far off from what we had in Reason 7. I think it can get problematic with it's color, or say if you were to scroll up slightly in the Mixer and have the divider land on top of something of similar color like the channel output labels.

I also think Propellerhead probably wouldn't move away from having these dividers labeled. So however small they can get while still be labeled would probably be the best bet. Or...if they could entertain the idea of simply having more Themes, that would solve that.

[aeox]

You know, it's really a matter of getting used to it and if it's your day job or just a hobby.

I'm on a 12'' Surface Pro 4 and I could easily work like this...



...but definitely not like this! Look at all the wasted space:

It's so much easier to just switch between each window with f5, f6, and f7! Can you not do that efficiently with the Surface?

[antic604]

It's so much easier to just switch between each window with f5, f6, and f7! Can you not do that efficiently with the Surface?

Sure I can, but it becomes very inconsistent visually - Mixer doesn't have the browser or transport bar and both Mixer and Rack have additional border around them, which makes things misaligned when switching between Rack and Sequencer. Such things bother me, ok?

And what I propose wouldn't influence you if you choose to not use it.

[Faastwalker]

Can't say I've really concerned myself with this much before. I guess they do look like wasted space when closed & stacked up. not been a problem for me though. I'm using a 32" 2K monitor & have plenty of screen real estate. I'm pretty okay with the layout / arrangement as well. But it wouldn't hurt for it to have more customization.

[splangie]

I was just imagining this today with a horizontal and vertical scroll for the rack and mixer.

[Harlin]

It's a jumbled mess, design needs a totally new approach. Once you have 30,40 plus devices, scrolling around becomes a chore, especially if you're working with effects etc. I'm no Reason pro, but find myself looking more and more at Ableton, which seems to have a much more chilled and logical layout. What does one need to get Reason working, three monitors? Mixer, Rack, Sequencer? Its a product thats undergone precisely zero facelifts or design tweaks other than some utility changes over its time. I'm not sure when they introduced the Audio and mix tracks, but that did nothing (for me anyway) then to add cutter. Previous versions you just had everything in one Combinator. Comparing Reason to Ableton, which seems to have a very intuitive and liquid design, I think my next outlay will be on Ableton. I love Reason, but find I'm clicking around all the time, moving something somewhere. And I have two 24" monitors, so even a 32 Curved wouldn't solve it.

[guitfnky]

It's a jumbled mess, design needs a totally new approach. Once you have 30,40 plus devices, scrolling around becomes a chore, especially if you're working with effects etc. I'm no Reason pro, but find myself looking more and more at Ableton, which seems to have a much more chilled and logical layout. What does one need to get Reason working, three monitors? Mixer, Rack, Sequencer? Its a product thats undergone precisely zero facelifts or design tweaks other than some utility changes over its time. I'm not sure when they introduced the Audio and mix tracks, but that did nothing (for me anyway) then to add cutter. Previous versions you just had everything in one Combinator. Comparing Reason to Ableton, which seems to have a very intuitive and liquid design, I think my next outlay will be on Ableton. I love Reason, but find I'm clicking around all the time, moving something somewhere. And I have two 24" monitors, so even a 32 Curved wouldn't solve it.

I think (hope) RS has to know this—it’s why I’m holding out hope that the high-res update that’s coming will be *much* more than a simple re-skin.

as for Ableton, I’ve just started switching to it as my main DAW as well. I actually didn’t expect to think the layout and workflow would be better for me than Reason—it just had a bunch of features I’m tired of waiting for in Reason...but I’m finding myself thinking the same thing you are—it’s actually really intuitive once you know the basics (and the basics are super easy).

I’m loving using Reason in it, and it’s so much less-cluttered.

[antic604]

...but find myself looking more and more at Ableton, which seems to have a much more chilled and logical layout.

Before you do that, investigate if Bitwig isn't the better option