"Ernst explains VST decision" Props blogpost

[selig]

I remember photographers complaining when digital cameras became affordable and mainstream, saying it would make it too easy. I bet they had the same complaint when autofocus turned up. Smash the looms!

Some pro photographers have been making this same complaint since the Brownie camera was released. Same story, probably repeated since the beginning of time in one form or another! [emoji12]


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk

[Exowildebeest]

It continues to amaze me that there are some people who will pick at anything, regardless of whether it may benefit them or not.

"We've decided to hand over this golden apple to you. Enjoy it, it's an apple made of solid gold."

"(rolls eyes) Well you said years ago you weren't handing out golden apples, so obviously you can't be trusted!"

Hear hear.

[joeyluck]

What makes me anxious is that it's pretty clear that they don't have the resources to keep Reason up
with it's competitors - the Sequencer, editing etc. + the default Instruments and Effects.
And still, I was convinced they have some sort of vision to keep it unique - CV's and all.
But this explanation really makes me doubt if I should continue investing in this platform or not.

They have a capital investor, Verdane. They will also likely expand Reason's user base by adding VST support.
So I wouldn't be anxious about resources for improving Reason

[Noplan]

Reason.jpg (301.69 KiB) Viewed 1825 times

Ernst explains VST decision

[SoulState]

If something you make or do gets easier, for more people, to make or do - and your reaction is negative, you're wrong.
What you're feeling is the fear that what you do might no longer have value, might no longer mean anything, might no longer be worth doing now that "anyone can do it".
It's the fear that the only edge you had was your hard-learned knowledge of operating a complicated and uninviting machine, and that machine has just become easier.
It's the fear that on a level playing field, you might not be enough of an artist. Let it go. People still sing, and find endless new art in it, even though anyone can do it. Your voice is your own.

.

Well put! You're good.
Forget this Reason/music making malarky - you're in the wrong game mate, should be a shrink

[QVprod]

What makes me anxious is that it's pretty clear that they don't have the resources to keep Reason up
with it's competitors - the Sequencer, editing etc. + the default Instruments and Effects.
And still, I was convinced they have some sort of vision to keep it unique - CV's and all.
But this explanation really makes me doubt if I should continue investing in this platform or not.

Actually Reason has one of the best selections of default instruments only to be slightly beaten by Logic having Alchemy. Otherwise, Thor is still pretty much the best stock synthesizer that exists in terms of it's sonic palette. Reason stock sounds only really lack in it's 'real' instrument categories where the only DAW that really wins in that area is Studio One 3 with Logic maybe being a second. Even the VST implementation is unique and very Reason-like.

Also I think it's troubling to the user to think about buying Reason products as an investment in Propellerhead. It's not. It's an investment in yourself. You buy tools that work for you for whatever goals you seek to accomplish, even if it's just a hobby. See Reason as a tool and there's no need for anxiety. Besides, it's plenty clear that Props aren't struggling for money. Investors don't invest in failing companies with bad vision.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

*nailed it!*

If something you make or do gets easier, for more people, to make or do - and your reaction is negative, you're wrong.
What you're feeling is the fear that what you do might no longer have value, might no longer mean anything, might no longer be worth doing now that "anyone can do it".
It's the fear that the only edge you had was your hard-learned knowledge of operating a complicated and uninviting machine, and that machine has just become easier.
It's the fear that on a level playing field, you might not be enough of an artist. Let it go. People still sing, and find endless new art in it, even though anyone can do it. Your voice is your own.

This rant isn't aimed at anybody in this thread - it's more in response to a general vibe that floats around on this forum sometimes, and especially since the 9.5 announcement. I know that Kuhliloach's comment was more about rampant consumerism than anything else, and I'm guilty of it, and I agree. (Although I also get fun out of it).

What makes me anxious is that it's pretty clear that they don't have the resources to keep Reason up
with it's competitors - the Sequencer, editing etc. + the default Instruments and Effects.
And still, I was convinced they have some sort of vision to keep it unique - CV's and all.
But this explanation really makes me doubt if I should continue investing in this platform or not.

Enjoy the grass on the other side...

[ljekio]

I guess VST is the most revolutionary thing in Reason since the time of adding audio tracks (Record).
Even RE was not so revolutionary because there remained a need to go into other DAWs for certain types of stuff.
Now there was absolutely no need to start other DAWs.
It's great that they decided on this step.

[pjeudy]

It continues to amaze me that there are some people who will pick at anything, regardless of whether it may benefit them or not.

"We've decided to hand over this golden apple to you. Enjoy it, it's an apple made of solid gold."

"(rolls eyes) Well you said years ago you weren't handing out golden apples, so obviously you can't be trusted!"

But...uh...that seems like a normal reaction that anyone..including you platzangst would have?

Hey platzangst ..I will never let you borrow my tools to work on your car! [5 months later] hey platzangst want to borrow my tools to work on your car?
Even if you don't verbalize it , it seems normal for you to think at the very least to your self "wait, he said that he never let me use them,what happened,wasup with that".

This less then poor excuse of "Because your music now requires it" can only be described (to me anyway) as your standard political and diplomatic B.S No? Now your Music requires it?

Propellerheads didn't decide this VST implementation...people who have abandon the DAW decided, the lack of focus or coverage in the general Music/plugin software arena decided this VST move. What Propellerheads and More Specifically what Ernst Nathorst-Böös decided , was that there Rack Extension format would fulfill ALL the requirements of you Music and after that failed to materialize at a level that would have made his decision a commercial success and the envy of the Audio software industry. Now comes the Political word play mixed with none sense about NOW your music requires it ? LOL people been asking for this for years...there music didn't require it then ?

RE and what it's trying to fixed I respect ! But I live in reality...as of this decision to implement VST which was a shock to ALL. RE's alone can not take Propellerhead REASON to a level that they see for them selves...they needed help, major help...first from an outside investor then second from the biggest plugin format there is, Steinberg VST.

[Gorgon]

It continues to amaze me that there are some people who will pick at anything, regardless of whether it may benefit them or not.

"We've decided to hand over this golden apple to you. Enjoy it, it's an apple made of solid gold."

"(rolls eyes) Well you said years ago you weren't handing out golden apples, so obviously you can't be trusted!"

Hear hear.

Hear hear? That's complete gnoe-shit.

This is not about Reason getting VST support.

This is about Ernst talking out of his ass.

[Gorgon]

I guess VST is the most revolutionary thing in Reason since the time of adding audio tracks (Record).
Even RE was not so revolutionary because there remained a need to go into other DAWs for certain types of stuff.
Now there was absolutely no need to start other DAWs.
It's great that they decided on this step.

Their investor would never have bought them if they wouldn't include VST.

[Oquasec]

Rack extensions are top notch because of those limitations and integrated ecosystem that's not going anywhere because of how well made they are.
Vsts are not to be compared directly because of how open they are. Vsts will never have the level of synchronization and organization as RE or AAX or other proprietary formats that show up because vsts format was never meant to be a tidy closed platform that doesn't make you sign up to 15 different fucking websites to download an ilok copy of a plugin without wires at the back
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[fieldframe]

Given that Ernst seems to be on good terms with Gerhard Beles, maybe the bit about more sampler functionality means Kontakt Player compatibility? Even though VST support mostly solves it, it would be really cool to have native loading.

[pjeudy]

Rack extensions are top notch because of those limitations and integrated ecosystem that's not going anywhere because of how well made they are.
Vsts are not to be compared directly because of how open they are. Vsts will never have the level of synchronization and organization as RE or AAX or other proprietary formats that show up because vsts format was never meant to be a tidy closed platform that doesn't make you sign up to 15 different fucking websites to download an ilok copy of a plugin without wires at the back
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right..I think most of us in REASONTALK would agree! Including Propellerheads...but here we are.

The magic and beauty of the integration of RE's is spoken like gospel mostly by people who have a desire to use REASON only..and that get's ZERO arguments from me, but judging from this welcoming news..perfect Integration is not what people outside the REASON bubble care about.. And being built for REASON, yes RE works well with REASON..I don't think the discussion is about "RE vs VST which one fist better in REASON"

But the RE format lead by Ernst was and is too young to have ever thought of ignoring let alone fight against the big bad ilock,download from 15 different website,pain to install kontak libraries,without wires in the back, not knowing where all files are installed MONSTER that is VST. That's why Ernst had to put out this lame excuse of "Now you need it"...LOL..that statement makes me laugh every time hahaha Ernst is a funny dude I wonder if he kept a straight face writing it, I can't keep a straight face reading it

[Oquasec]

VST IS NOT A BAD FORMAT AND NEVER WILL BE. It's just that utility format is way less organized and all over the place unless you stick to kvr for everything, which imo is bad practice since even then you'd still need to keep track of multiple sites and crap just to make sure you still have a hold of your plugins [if you even bother using those still]

[Bunja]

Though I'm happy about VST support
what a bucket load of self-contradictory statements.

Yeah, kind of.. I guess the correct statement would be "I still think its a dumb idea but so many people wanted it and I didn't want to bother with those imbeciles anymore"

Sounded like a politicions response so they didnt include vst support because the new investors leaned on them?

[Bunja]

What makes me anxious is that it's pretty clear that they don't have the resources to keep Reason up
with it's competitors - the Sequencer, editing etc. + the default Instruments and Effects.
And still, I was convinced they have some sort of vision to keep it unique - CV's and all.
But this explanation really makes me doubt if I should continue investing in this platform or not.

Actually Reason has one of the best selections of default instruments only to be slightly beaten by Logic having Alchemy. Otherwise, Thor is still pretty much the best stock synthesizer that exists in terms of it's sonic palette. Reason stock sounds only really lack in it's 'real' instrument categories where the only DAW that really wins in that area is Studio One 3 with Logic maybe being a second. Even the VST implementation is unique and very Reason-like.

Also I think it's troubling to the user to think about buying Reason products as an investment in Propellerhead. It's not. It's an investment in yourself. You buy tools that work for you for whatever goals you seek to accomplish, even if it's just a hobby. See Reason as a tool and there's no need for anxiety. Besides, it's plenty clear that Props aren't struggling for money. Investors don't invest in failing companies with bad vision.

U can get alchemy cm player still

[EnochLight]

Meh, I'm glad Reason supports VST now. Couldn't give a rat's ass that the direction the company was taking 5 or 10 years ago was different. How have I lost anything? I haven't. I've only gained things as releases have came, bought what I wanted, passed on what I didn't.

But, as this is "teh Internetz", there will always be bitter miserable haters. It's like Ernst came over to your house a punched your puppy. Jesus. Give it a rest - the guy is human like everyone else.

I enjoyed the blog post. Looking forward to 9.5's release, what's in store for 10, and beyond.

[QVprod]

What makes me anxious is that it's pretty clear that they don't have the resources to keep Reason up
with it's competitors - the Sequencer, editing etc. + the default Instruments and Effects.
And still, I was convinced they have some sort of vision to keep it unique - CV's and all.
But this explanation really makes me doubt if I should continue investing in this platform or not.

Actually Reason has one of the best selections of default instruments only to be slightly beaten by Logic having Alchemy. Otherwise, Thor is still pretty much the best stock synthesizer that exists in terms of it's sonic palette. Reason stock sounds only really lack in it's 'real' instrument categories where the only DAW that really wins in that area is Studio One 3 with Logic maybe being a second. Even the VST implementation is unique and very Reason-like.

Also I think it's troubling to the user to think about buying Reason products as an investment in Propellerhead. It's not. It's an investment in yourself. You buy tools that work for you for whatever goals you seek to accomplish, even if it's just a hobby. See Reason as a tool and there's no need for anxiety. Besides, it's plenty clear that Props aren't struggling for money. Investors don't invest in failing companies with bad vision.

U can get alchemy cm player still

My point was regarding Alchemy being a stock synth in Logic and how Reason stock synths compared, not about whether Alchemy was still accessible in some form. That aside, it's not a full version and since Camel Audio no longer exists, it's not guaranteed to continue to work in newer operating systems.

[pjeudy]

Meh, I'm glad Reason supports VST now. Couldn't give a rat's ass that the direction the company was taking 5 or 10 years ago was different. How have I lost anything? I haven't. I've only gained things as releases have came, bought what I wanted, passed on what I didn't.

But, as this is "teh Internetz", there will always be bitter miserable haters. It's like Ernst came over to your house a punched your puppy. Jesus. Give it a rest - the guy is human like everyone else.

I enjoyed the blog post. Looking forward to 9.5's release, what's in store for 10, and beyond.

The issue is not ancestrally the internet but the name of this website.

[eusti]

Well, selling us plug ins that are supposed to make up for what is missing in our music is just standard advertising strategy...
And I have to say, at times I'm very susceptible to it... I know that just sitting down to practice or learning the tools I already have would be way more effective, but I am tempted to "buy myself out of the predicament"... Obviously that doesn't really work...

But back to the statement: I get what he's saying. With all those never this, never that, I have a hard time trusting what he says now...
At this moment though I like where things are going... I was excited about audio, MIDI out and now VSTs... Not sure how much I'll use VSTs, but good to know I could, if I wanted to...

D.

[CephaloPod]

In my opinion, the Props had a great idea with Rack Extensions, but the format never lived up to its potential and didn't mature fast enough to entice more developers. The Props missed their window of opportunity there, and were forced to allow VSTs in order to stay competitive with other DAWS.

[platzangst]

Hey platzangst ..I will never let you borrow my tools to work on your car! [5 months later] hey platzangst want to borrow my tools to work on your car?
Even if you don't verbalize it , it seems normal for you to think at the very least to your self "wait, he said that he never let me use them,what happened,wasup with that".

Maybe, but the normal part is over and done with that question in the space of 10 seconds. "oh well, guess something changed, now I can work on my car." Unless there's some indication of an ulterior motive that's going to hurt me somehow, why would I really care?

There's really two possibilities, here.

One: Ernst has changed his mind about VST support, exactly for the reasons he's stated. Great, we can use VSTs, now.

Two: Ernst hasn't changed his mind, or he's changed his mind for some reason other than the ones he's stated, and is just making some kind of diplomatic statement about it to smooth things over. Oh well, but we can use VSTs now.

In the end the result is exactly the same. There is literally nothing to be gained by over-analyzing his words and trying to assign some alternate motive to anything he says, except as it might make some people feel morally superior to him somehow, or as a signal as to how savvy and clever some people want to be viewed: "well, I had that Ernst guy figured out all along!" Big whoop-de-doo. When you can trade all those internet points in for a free soda, maybe that will be worth it.

[sonicbyte]

I Hope they plan to support disk streaming for the sampler/Re format. I'm praying for that (and to improve the sequencer)

[ravisoni]

Hey platzangst ..I will never let you borrow my tools to work on your car! [5 months later] hey platzangst want to borrow my tools to work on your car?
Even if you don't verbalize it , it seems normal for you to think at the very least to your self "wait, he said that he never let me use them,what happened,wasup with that".

Maybe, but the normal part is over and done with that question in the space of 10 seconds. "oh well, guess something changed, now I can work on my car." Unless there's some indication of an ulterior motive that's going to hurt me somehow, why would I really care?

There's really two possibilities, here.

One: Ernst has changed his mind about VST support, exactly for the reasons he's stated. Great, we can use VSTs, now.

Two: Ernst hasn't changed his mind, or he's changed his mind for some reason other than the ones he's stated, and is just making some kind of diplomatic statement about it to smooth things over. Oh well, but we can use VSTs now.

In the end the result is exactly the same. There is literally nothing to be gained by over-analyzing his words and trying to assign some alternate motive to anything he says, except as it might make some people feel morally superior to him somehow, or as a signal as to how savvy and clever some people want to be viewed: "well, I had that Ernst guy figured out all along!" Big whoop-de-doo. When you can trade all those internet points in for a free soda, maybe that will be worth it.

Hated that particular blog post, loved this particular forum post.