Reason drops forum?

[JNeffLind]

I certainly don't think the negativity helped, but I suspect closing the PUF had more to do with the Props hoping the activity would translate to twitter/facebook etc. Every business is trying to harness social media since it's much more visible and readily available to most than a forum. I'm afraid forums are seen as kind of old school internet and the new generation is much less likely to participate.

[normen]

I certainly don't think the negativity helped, but I suspect closing the PUF had more to do with the Props hoping the activity would translate to twitter/facebook etc. Every business is trying to harness social media since it's much more visible and readily available to most than a forum. I'm afraid forums are seen as kind of old school internet and the new generation is much less likely to participate.

Agreeing on forums being "old school" but totally disagreeing on social media being "readily available". Information is pretty much lost in social media streams, its solely about "now" and not a good "database" - except of course for the providers

[pushedbutton]

I certainly don't think the negativity helped, but I suspect closing the PUF had more to do with the Props hoping the activity would translate to twitter/facebook etc. Every business is trying to harness social media since it's much more visible and readily available to most than a forum. I'm afraid forums are seen as kind of old school internet and the new generation is much less likely to participate.

Well I've only resorted to contacting Props on twitter if I have a problem they can fix. There's no point in banter, suggestions or general enquiries as they aren't acknowledged. Plus, for them, I don't want to wash my dirty laundry in public. I don't really want them to look bad to a bunch of people who've never even heard of them, whereas forum users should know what to expect and see where I'm coming from. I didn't even know they had a facebook account.

Oh btw, if you've a dev there may still be a back door to the forums in read only, just don't say I told you so.

[JNeffLind]

Agreeing on forums being "old school" but totally disagreeing on social media being "readily available". Information is pretty much lost in social media streams, its solely about "now" and not a good "database" - except of course for the providers

Well I've only resorted to contacting Props on twitter if I have a problem they can fix. There's no point in banter, suggestions or general enquiries as they aren't acknowledged. Plus, for them, I don't want to wash my dirty laundry in public. I don't really want them to look bad to a bunch of people who've never even heard of them, whereas forum users should know what to expect and see where I'm coming from. I didn't even know they had a facebook account.

Oh btw, if you've a dev there may still be a back door to the forums in read only, just don't say I told you so.

I don't think their reasoning was sound. I just think that that was their reasoning, or at least part of it. Any web traffic they generated they wanted to have as visible as possible. I might be wrong. Certainly wouldn't be the first time.

[Raveshaper]

There is no backdoor into the old forums, sorry to say. Also all messages attached to an account that predate the forum closure no longer exist in user archive. All gone, sadly.

[joeyluck]

I'm sure Propellerhead still has access to it, and maybe we'll see some of it eventually?

But really, are we losing much after gaining so much here? With all the video tutorials available out there and websites dedicated to tutorials and threads we have here, are we really missing much?

Even the good threads of yesterday in the PUF would become lost as users in the past typically would create new threads for the same issue. Yes, it's good practice for a knowledge base to remain intact, but it is what it is... And again, maybe we'll see it again someday...

But also, issues and techniques deserve to be approached from scratch from time-to-time. New users appreciate being addressed and helped directly sometimes rather than someone chiming in to say, "We already discussed this back in 2011...here's the link to the 50+ page thread where we argued over the appropriate approach to your question."

[mreese80]

they destroyed something good and valuable to users. idc know more. This forum does all that. all the help i've received. im truly grateful. i dont even go props for anything now. im not that patient when i spend my money. and to get a response back telling me we'll get back to you after the weekend...sometime early in the week coming...f___ that...i come here...

[Noplan]

Here is my little summary again.

[SA Studio]

I've wondered if there was some kind of legal reason they literally nuked the entire information database that had been growing for years.

Adobe, for just one example, would never, ever delete the online information trail of it's product, and I can't imagine one other company that would. It's definitely never happened before to any other quasi-major DAW developer.

The fact that literally EVERYthing is gone......could very well mean it's ALL gone for a very good and specific reason.

Ever consider that? Think about it. There was SO much that got permanently deleted, it really just doesn't make sense.

Quite literally, the majority of the history of the product known as Reason....vanished. It doesn't exist in the Kitchen, on the streets, or on the web anymore - simply a memory in the minds of the loyal few who remember the products history.

Think about that = A company deleted the entire online history of it's product. Why would you do that?

Boggles my mind.

[joeyluck]

I've wondered if there was some kind of legal reason they literally nuked the entire information database that had been growing for years.

Adobe would never, ever delete the online information trail of it's product, and I can't imagine one other company that would. It's definitely never happened before to any other quasi-major DAW developer.

The fact that literally EVERYthing is gone......could very well mean it's ALL gone for a very good and specific reason.

Ever consider that? Think about it.

Dunno if anything has been deleted. I stumbled upon a thread the other day by clicking a link elsewhere while logged into Propellerhead. Seems as if you have the direct link/url of a page, it will load...?

I see no reason why they would need to delete. It's still a resource for them I'm sure.

[pushedbutton]

There is no backdoor into the old forums, sorry to say. Also all messages attached to an account that predate the forum closure no longer exist in user archive. All gone, sadly.

No, course there isn't. the attachment is obviously an elaborate hoax.

[joeyluck]

Aside from any back door stuff... They gave us ample heads up to save threads and info we felt the need to hang onto. They also said they would keep valuable/important threads themselves. I remember having quite a bit a time. I saved the threads I thought were valuable to me.

IMO there's nothing they were trying to hide from. They wanted to take the conversations to email, but even more so to social media (in the eyes of everyone). Having someone manage social media communications rather than moderate what is mostly a private forum is smart marketing.

To say they were hiding from anything while asking people to take their conversations public to Facebook and Twitter is a little silly. The complaints for Reason 8 were no greater in number than other versions. It was much of the same people over-and-over and what I see on Facebook and Twitter is much the same as complaints I see directed at any software developer... That's why they probably weren't worried. It's to be expected. And Reason 8 is the best selling version of Reason as Propellerhead has had so much more exposure via Rack Extensions (through individual RE developer channels) and through iOS apps and through bundle deals, etc. If you don't want to take Propellerhead's word for it, call a store and ask.

[SA Studio]

Aside from any back door stuff... They gave us ample heads up to save threads and info we felt the need to hang onto. They also said they would keep valuable/important threads themselves. I remember having quite a bit a time. I saved the threads I thought were valuable to me.

IMO there's nothing they were trying to hide from. They wanted to take the conversations to email, but even more so to social media (in the eyes of everyone). Having someone manage social media communications rather than moderate what is mostly a private forum is smart marketing.

To say they were hiding from anything while asking people to take their conversations public to Facebook and Twitter is a little silly. The complaints for Reason 8 were no greater in number than other versions. It was much of the same people over-and-over and what I see on Facebook and Twitter is much the same as complaints I see directed at any software developer... That's why they probably weren't worried. It's to be expected. And Reason 8 is the best selling version of Reason as Propellerhead has had so much more exposure via Rack Extensions (through individual RE developer channels) and through iOS apps and through bundle deals, etc. If you don't want to take Propellerhead's word for it, call a store and ask.

Right.

Everyone's just conjecturing anyway. Not saying they were hiding, Joey, just trying to come up with some notion of why they'd remove most information about the product from the public eye.

That's no more silly than any of the other reasons I've heard, quite honestly.

"while asking people to take their conversations public" is a far different thing than removing immediately accessible information about your product from the internet.

There's no other company that has ever deleted their products forum that I'm aware of. I've never heard of a DAW developer doing that, and I've never heard of any company in any industry pulling accessible information from the internet. I've just never heard of that.

[True]

are we losing much after gaining so much here? With all the video tutorials available out there and websites dedicated to tutorials and threads we have here, are we really missing much?

IMO, the biggest thing we lost was the specific RE discussions when each device first came out. That's when pros and cons are majorly discussed, helping people later on make decisions. These were discussions that were being written as people were trialing the REs, so we got their thoughts even if they decided not to buy. Now, those thoughts are gone in regard to people who decided not to buy. That is, for the older REs, most of what we have now is the word of people who did decide to buy, or vague memories of why others hated it. Can we really expect to make an informed decision for something like Renoun Reverb or Truth now?

[True]

removing immediately accessible information about your product from the internet.

There's no other company that has ever deleted their products forum that I'm aware of. I've never heard of a DAW developer doing that, and I've never heard of any company in any industry pulling accessible information from the internet. I've just never heard of that.

To be fair, (taking them at their word) they didn't just up and remove the forum; they switched platforms for their site, and the forum was not compatible with the new platform.

Also, there was not a lot of "official" information about Propellerhead products on the forum that was not also available elsewhere. Occasionally Mattias would jump in to answer a question or to clarify something, but the vast majority of the posts were far from official and often relatively uninformative.

Point is, we're not talking about a company that eliminated access to archived user manuals. This was a social platform that Props had relatively little involvement with anyway. Not that I agree with their decision...

[True]

The complaints for Reason 8 were no greater in number than other versions.

And yet, didn't the owner himself (or someone very high up, at least) come onto the forum and tell everyone to quit their batch' about R8? Wasn't that unprecedented move the first we heard about R8 being their best-selling version?

No, I think there was FAR more negativity with R8 than with previous versions. With previous versions, the complaints were of the "they didn't add this" variety. R8 was much harsher, almost accusing Props of scamming customers by charging full price for a mediocre (at best) upgrade. Whether you agree with them or you thought the complaints were not legitimate, that doesn't change how it was. People were furious and very vocal that they thought they were being ripped off, and some Props supporters (one in particular, whom I shall not name) were equally vicious in their retorts. It was a very ugly time.

I don't know if that's why Props ultimately decided to kill the forum, but it certainly didn't help.

[joeyluck]

The complaints for Reason 8 were no greater in number than other versions.

And yet, didn't the owner himself (or someone very high up, at least) come onto the forum and tell everyone to quit their batch' about R8? Wasn't that unprecedented move the first we heard about R8 being their best-selling version?

No, I think there was FAR more negativity with R8 than with previous versions. With previous versions, the complaints were of the "they didn't add this" variety. R8 was much harsher, almost accusing Props of scamming customers by charging full price for a mediocre (at best) upgrade. Whether you agree with them or you thought the complaints were not legitimate, that doesn't change how it was. People were furious and very vocal that they thought they were being ripped off, and some Props supporters (one in particular, whom I shall not name) were equally vicious in their retorts. It was a very ugly time.

I don't know if that's why Props ultimately decided to kill the forum, but it certainly didn't help.

Yeah, I dunno. The complaints and scamming accusations I will never get. Nobody was sold a preorder. Nobody has a subscription to Reason. It's clear what was included in R8.0. Trolls gonna troll.

I didn't upgrade until Reason 8.3, but saw no need in complaining. I guess as an outsider in that sense of thinking and behaving is why I see the complaints no different than most any version of any piece of software released; it's not personal for me. And I could easily see that it was high in frequency, but low in participants. People who are emotionally driven by something want to believe they are the majority. A few cosigners and they feel they must be right.

Prior to the release, the PUF was saturated with discussion and requests regarding the browser. It was a huge undertaking, and they did it.
It's one of the bigger things the folks in the forum were rallying for...

Before they removed the forum, it had already become a footnote on their website. And even before then, it was still somewhat obscure—not a large percentage of users. The forums were comprised mostly of lingering veterans and trolls. I had been a Reason user since version 1, but didn't start using the forums until Reason 5 + Record. It might have been a great place before that... But for the most part, it wasn't the best place for newbies or people looking to get help.

Oh well. Here we are now in a much more happy place

[mreese80]

Here is my little summary again.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...LMAO!!! This is so funny and so true. Props is so sensitive and emotional