Why is the music subforum so quiet?

[robussc]

Jappe asked for contributions to help get more activity in the Music subforum.

Lots of people post tracks and get 0 to 1 responses. I think there are probably multiple reasons for this:

1) invisibility: the music subforum is quite far down the list of forums and on a small screen is probably out of sight. I would recommend moving up to near the top, right next to the General forum.

2) time: most people are busy and sitting listening to music requires time and attention. ReasonHeads has recently launched a dedicated Reason music radio station and integrating that with ReasonTalk seems like it would be very neat and enable a more passive consumption of ReasonTalk music. See: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7536256 - (though the lack of traction even that post got speaks to the invisibility point!)

3) effort: when the only way to interact with the music is to post a comment that makes it a bit of a roadblock. We really need a simple way to thumb up a track or give some other quick response. It's an easy way to acknowledge a listen without having to come up with something to say. Sure we could respond and just insert an emoticon, but that's 3 clicks versus 1 (and potentially would interrupt the listening experience unless you wait until the very end).

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Anyone else?

[joeyluck]

The mod team has been discussing this.

My suggestions are to either have more descriptive titles (such as mention if you are seeking feedback in the title) or maybe we create some subforums, so "showcase" would be the main music forum and then subforums for feedback and collaboration. I think a topic that says, "(Disco) My First Song - what do you think of the horns?" Is going to get more interaction because it starts with a request for comments.

I don't think the placement matters as much since many users choose to view the forum by New Posts and Active Topics.

[JaceFace]

I would assume it goes without saying that people want comments and reactions to the art they created and shared. It’s an exciting thing to post something you’re proud of and the normal expectation is probably that people will listen and give feedback (good or bad). And the normal emotion is probably feeling low when no one engages.
Especially here on this specific website that brings us together using the same software to make our music.

We can’t force people to listen and comment but we can strive to enhance the experience and encourage a stronger community.

[joeyluck]

Yeah I'm just pointing out ways to engage people if someone wants feedback.

[robussc]

I would assume it goes without saying that people want comments and reactions to the art they created and shared. It’s an exciting thing to post something you’re proud of and the normal expectation is probably that people will listen and give feedback (good or bad). And the normal emotion is probably feeling low when no one engages.
Especially here on this specific website that brings us together using the same software to make our music.

1000%

[esme]

there is too much music to litesn to and not enough time
and lots of it is just ok
i try not make bad comment

[jappe]

I like the idea to specify the kind of feedback you want in the header. (just a "feedback wanted" hint and details in the post if it becomes too long).

Would be nice to have some review credit system that earns you the right to post a feedback needed thread....but that not feasible I guess.

Maybe a rule to include a link in your song thread to at least one "feedback wanted" tune you reviewed. Pick the ones with fewest reviews.

About the Thumb up - we used to have a Like button but something broke in a way that wasn't easily fixed if I remember correctly @Joey?

@Rob I think it's not so much the effort that blocks ppl from reviewing but the determination; but perhaps some members really don't feel they are good at giving feedback, then your idea with a simple thumbs up or some other nice emoticon post would be fine I think.

[jappe]

there is too much music to litesn to and not enough time
and lots of it is just ok
i try not make bad comment

There's where a statement requesting feedback could be helpful;
"Honest feedback requested on everything"
"Does the pads fit?" (when not interested in other feedback perhaps because it's unfinished)
"I mixed it in headphones - does it sound balanced to you"
"Do you like the melodies?"

[jappe]

Maybe we could have a Feedback Competition aiming for the zero review songs.
Here's the oldest one: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7274087

[JaceFace]

How about a 5 star rating system? That’s perfect for when you listen and don’t wanna say anything. And it can show the ratings in the list of posts next to the titles.

Also I try to listen and give feedback whenever I can. Honestly it’s usually when I post a song because… that’s when I’m most engaged with this website and it’s a mutual favor thing.
Selfish? Maybe, but my words are genuine.

And honestly, it is a time thing for me too. I have no problem listening to 1-3 songs from the same artist but if it’s a full album, unless it’s phenomenal music, I pass it up in order to spread the love to others here.
As for genre, I like that it’s a part of the title so you know what to expect but for me, I listen to anything to give everyone a chance and who knows, I often get inspired by genres I don’t usually listen to. There’s a lot of fantastic music coming from my fellow Reason users!

[bxbrkrz]

Maybe we should first find out if it has always been 'quiet' from the start of the forum, or started strong then went 'downhill" as far as feedback. A base should be established so to have a more accurate answer to the situation in general. Maybe it is a normal state for this forum. Some people are simply shy and afraid to be judged by giving 'bad feedback'. I know I am. So yes it would be great to have guidelines from the producers asking what kind of feedback they want about what specific details.
I never understood the 5 star system. Why only 5? Why not 20 at least? Anyway

[TritoneAddiction]

I agree that people will probably have a greater success rate at getting comments if they specify they want feedback or opinions on a particular thing.
For me I'm much more open to feedback when sharing work-in-progress material. That's something I've done more of lately. Because when I do there's still room for changes and I'm still uncertain where the song will go. There's still time to try new ideas out.
Other times especially when the music is finished I mainly just want to share the music I've done. Of course comments and opinions are always welcome. But when a project is finished it's kind of too late to change anything. It's a bit like going to an art exhibition expecting the artist to change their work. The art is already done.

I think we should be careful with standardizing any rating system though just to get around our lazyness of commenting. Would it really be wise to leave a 1 or 2 star on a song? Especially not leaving any further feedback. That could be really discouraging. Maybe the poster is a beginner and just gathered the courage to post a song just to be met with a low ranking without any explanation. That could scare away people completely. A short comment about something to improve would be much more constructive.

Personally I could certainly get better at commenting on songs here at RT. Sometimes I'm lazy and I don't have the energy to go indepth. By I find leaving a simple "Nice track!" is ok sometimes too. I mean I still appreciate when people leave comments like that, even if it's very short. It shows they took the time to listen.

[dioxide]

For me it's that I don't want to listen to music just because it's made with Reason. When R1 first came out it was more important as you were working with certain limitations. Now Reason can do everything so a track made with Reason can sound like anything else. I like the idea of the Reason radio station more as it's picked by someone else and presented to you, so there's the chance of discovering something you wouldn't normally listen to. But still the fact that it's made with Reason isn't the most important thing.

There's also the thing that people are promoting their own stuff more than they are listening to what other people are posting. I tried some Facebook groups recently and it's not worth the time. There's no audience, just people posting their own music.

[joeyluck]

jappe, yes we had a like/vote up feature before and it was very buggy. It's something I'd like the forum to have in general.

In terms of ratings, etc. Users are free to create polls when posting their music. So if someone really wants to subject their music to a 10 star rating system or whatever, that can be done.

I agree though with TritoneAddiction. Asking for ratings without requiring comments might not be helpful. It's one of my criticisms of the Reason shop. If someone is going to hand out a 1 star rating, I want to know why, because if they say, "I hate the color blue" I know I don't need to give that rating much weight. Also it weeds out people who are willing to rate something without giving effort of a comment.

I also agree that unless I'm personally seeking feedback and I'm just sharing something, I don't need feedback. If the music is shared as a completed work, it's done.

dioxide has a point about the level of people promoting their own stuff more than they listen to others, and that's very true at least on other parts of the web, like on social media. Funny, Reason Studios recently asked people to name their favorite songs made with Reason, and I'm pretty sure most of them replied by posting their own music

I have found chat servers to be good places to post and comment about music, particularly when it's a part of the general chat. It's a reason why I haven't created a separate music channel on the ReasonTalk Discord, because I think many people might feel less inclined to visit a channel that is only music postings, and not in context of a general chat. Now that could always change.

[joeyluck]

Here's an example post using a poll to get reactions: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7536338

[JaceFace]

Make it MANDATORY - to be a member you have to listen/comment 3x a week minimum hahahahahaha! (dictator laugh)

[jam-s]

Here is some possible inspiration on how a voting system could be implemented: https://remix64.com/articles/voting-system.html

[Toki]

A star rating system doesn’t seem that useful if it’s just there to rank the overall track on whether it’s good or not. Unless we are comparing users tracks like charts. Likewise, I’m not convinced a like/heart offers that much other than an ego boost. You can avoid the negativity by creatively selecting your poll options but then how does receiving only 3 hearts come across?

Likes might be fine if your track is finished and you’re happy with it, but if you’re looking for feedback, I don’t think it offers much value. So it’s definitely worth stating whether you want feedback or whether you just want to showcase your track.

Anything less than written, specific feedback might not be super useful but we don’t always have the time or energy to comment fully, but maybe we could direct our thoughts a little.

If the person posting could define several criteria with ratings, it might provide a quick way for others to give feedback that’s more insightful if they don’t feel like they want or have time to give a detailed comment.

For example, when posting you might select the various criteria you want feedback on:

Arrangement
Mix
Vocals
Emotional Impact

The results could be private. And if the first four criteria get five stars and Emotional Impact gets only one star, the person posting might be encouraged to ask for help on building on that particular aspect of their track. This way it helps guide listeners on what to listen for and give them a quick way to respond, and the person posting gets more valuable feedback on where they most need to work on.

It’s not going to prevent negative comments, not that I’ve seen anything harsh here, but it might guide or encourage people to leave more useful and specific criticism if they do feel they want to comment.

[dioxide]

Make it MANDATORY - to be a member you have to listen/comment 3x a week minimum hahahahahaha! (dictator laugh)

Actually I quite like this idea. Want to reply to a post? Then post a link to a new track.

[Popey]

I would quite like a quick way to show appreciation for a track. Often I listen on my phone as I am usually busy ferrying my kids about. I like more songs than I comment on as don't have time to post any comments or don't know enough about that genre to add any value. Perhaps we should start just accepting positive emojis to show the creator we are there, listening and enjoyed.

[JaceFace]

Why not have stars and comments? Maybe even thumbs up, thumbs down and hearts. And polls. As many ways as possible for peeps to choose how they leave their sentiments.

With a catch! Less than 3 stars or thumbs down requires at least 1 sentence explanation. Like 10 words minimum.

And I totally love the idea that when you go into the music forum, or better yet! When you’re on this website it’s playing our music (which can be muted but plays by default) and if a song catches your ears you can click on the playlist and go to the post to comment, like, dislike, heart, poll.. whatev.

[TritoneAddiction]

I think all these suggestions are valid. There's never gonna be a way that fits all. And I don't think there has be only one way either.
I think just like in any relationship the best thing the person/music poster can do is to clearly communicate what they want. Otherwise it's just guess work on the listeners/commenters side. They might mean well with their comment but it might not be well recieved. Some people are more thick skinned and doesn't want any sugar coating, while others are more sensitive to harsh criticism.

For example as a poster, you can just clearly state "I'm open to feedback, even harsh criticism" or "This is a finished piece so there won't be any changes, but reactions and constructive comments are still very much appreciated".
Or go for the rating or poll system if you'd like people to respond that way.
Basically just tell people what you want.

[Rising Night Wave]

well yes. perhaps the some sort of guidence (a sticky mod/admin post) should be a solution for this.

[robussc]

Here’s an idea that came to me from Tritone’s music post. Perhaps the music forum is too broad?

How about we split it into at least two? Music WIP and Music Final? (With better titles of course!)

Music final should just be notifications of Reason music that has been actually released, users aren’t necessarily expecting feedback, it’s just another marketing channel.

Music WIP is of course expecting feedback.

[joeyluck]

Here’s an idea that came to me from Tritone’s music post. Perhaps the music forum is too broad?

How about we split it into at least two? Music WIP and Music Final? (With better titles of course!)

Music final should just be notifications of Reason music that has been actually released, users aren’t necessarily expecting feedback, it’s just another marketing channel.

Music WIP is of course expecting feedback.

I had suggested subforums.

I think for now we can stick to being more descriptive in titles and posts. It's actually a good way to also encourage those who are posting music to also be involved and not just dump and run. I think people here have made good points about that—simply stating if you want feedback or not and if you're seeking feedback about something specific.