Good Speaker Monitoring for Mix and Mastering or Sound designing

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tomusurp
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Post 14 Feb 2024

Honestly for lows I can’t recommend enough a subwoofer. I only use it momentarily during my mastering process and since each bass is a bit different it tells me exactly how much compression or high pass to use in the low end. If you don’t have the means for a sub then headphones and monitors are fine, just keep your bass in mind and tame it as best you can. I honestly wouldn’t worry about it much either. Plenty of hits produced and engineered by bedroom producers with limited gear and imperfect rooms.

Focus on the music and learning mixing techniques in general. This is where the beast awakens and some of the best music is made.
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Mohammadyarahmad
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Post 18 Mar 2024

I recently tested some speaker monitoring around 500-600 $ :
KRK Rokit7 G4
Adam T7V
Yamaha HS7
Presonus E7 XT
Focal Alpha 6.5 (a little higher price)

at this price range, almost all of the speakers add color to your sound. I don't care if you enjoy listening to your speakers. What we want as a music producer is HONESTY.

Yamaha is the most honest speaker I've tested. But it does need a sub for EDM purposes.
The second place belongs to Focal Alpha. (it adds less color compared with the others)

Mohammadyarahmad
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Post 18 Mar 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
13 Feb 2024
Mohammadyarahmad wrote:
03 Feb 2024
In general, how do you choose an honest speaker monitoring?
What's missing in this discussion is the influence of the room. If you have an untreated/unmeasured room, it doesn't matter what monitors you put into them. You won't get any honest results. As for headphones, this...


Interesting note from the video(16:15) :
"People mixed using speakers because they're mixing in studios and also they're other people in the room."

The video described that headphones are the best option for mixing. But it seems listening to the sounds of the samples(kicks, snares) and fixing singers' singing problems just with headphones is kind of annoying and results in ear problems. Does'nt it?

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mcatalao
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Post 19 Mar 2024

Mohammadyarahmad wrote:
18 Mar 2024
I recently tested some speaker monitoring around 500-600 $ :
KRK Rokit7 G4
Adam T7V
Yamaha HS7
Presonus E7 XT
Focal Alpha 6.5 (a little higher price)

at this price range, almost all of the speakers add color to your sound. I don't care if you enjoy listening to your speakers. What we want as a music producer is HONESTY.

Yamaha is the most honest speaker I've tested. But it does need a sub for EDM purposes.
The second place belongs to Focal Alpha. (it adds less color compared with the others)
IMHO for EDM (actually, for anything else) you need the Focal 8. They go down to 35 Hz, and imho you will need it, unless you have a very small room and then you're fracked. :) Or a sub, but i'm not very keen of subs, they are always fiddly about positioning, phasing and crossover setup. An 8+ inch monitor will solve the need for a sub.

The point is not that the speaker will add color (I'm pretty sure even the yamaha's add their color).
That's to be expected, they are not passive in relation the audio (and the brand doesn't even lie about it, with monitors with coloration up to +-3db. That's 6 db across the spectrum wich imho is something). The point is that you have a response where the monitors are good enough for your needs, they have a good translation, and you have a good enough treated room, and then, you get used to the monitor.

Mastering engineers use Hi-Fi monitors to master and even a B&W hi-fi monitor is a bit of a liar. But they know those monitors (and the amps, btw) as the palm of their hands.

Mohammadyarahmad
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Post 19 Mar 2024

mcatalao wrote:
19 Mar 2024
Mohammadyarahmad wrote:
18 Mar 2024
I recently tested some speaker monitoring around 500-600 $ :
KRK Rokit7 G4
Adam T7V
Yamaha HS7
Presonus E7 XT
Focal Alpha 6.5 (a little higher price)

at this price range, almost all of the speakers add color to your sound. I don't care if you enjoy listening to your speakers. What we want as a music producer is HONESTY.

Yamaha is the most honest speaker I've tested. But it does need a sub for EDM purposes.
The second place belongs to Focal Alpha. (it adds less color compared with the others)
IMHO for EDM (actually, for anything else) you need the Focal 8. They go down to 35 Hz, and imho you will need it, unless you have a very small room and then you're fracked. :) Or a sub, but i'm not very keen of subs, they are always fiddly about positioning, phasing and crossover setup. An 8+ inch monitor will solve the need for a sub.

The point is not that the speaker will add color (I'm pretty sure even the yamaha's add their color).
That's to be expected, they are not passive in relation the audio (and the brand doesn't even lie about it, with monitors with coloration up to +-3db. That's 6 db across the spectrum wich imho is something). The point is that you have a response where the monitors are good enough for your needs, they have a good translation, and you have a good enough treated room, and then, you get used to the monitor.

Mastering engineers use Hi-Fi monitors to master and even a B&W hi-fi monitor is a bit of a liar. But they know those monitors (and the amps, btw) as the palm of their hands.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I read somewhere that it's better to buy the sub as same as your speakers' manufacturer.

How much does the size of the room matter?
My room is small, 6 meters. As you mentioned we need 8" speakers because of the frequency response. How much should be the size of my speakers?

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moalla
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Post 19 Mar 2024

Hmm a 8inch speaker at 6m2 seems to big, at all I still have now a musicroom half of your size and my 5inch Eve SC205 monitors are more than enough maybe to big, but for mixing I use a 8inch diy Sub with 60watt sinus power (Portokasse Sub8) and that’s still to much for my tiny room, so this sub is more from 12m2 to 20m2.

I still tested these Sc205 against Eris5, Neumann Kh120 and HS7.

The flatest sound came out of the HS7, the Kh120 sounded wonderful but more Hi-Fi, the cheapest on the Eris5 played well but not so amazing than the others. At the end I bought the Sc205 of it’s neutral and good bass sound.

To check the mix I still like the Sony mdr 7506 more than my Dt880pro.

So some people still using in their small music spaces Eve Sc203 + TS107 sub or comparable 2.1 systems. At the end the right lofi speakers are very important to check the final mix, therefore I have a pair Logitech X140 closed pc speakers. This purchase was inspired by user Mimidancer and his/her music make speakers.
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RobC
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Post 20 Mar 2024

E30 II + L30 II + ATH-E70

You get a full professional, premium quality IEM system.

Personally, I could EQ sub bass with 0.1 dB accuracy, landing on the exact same value after tripple-checking. And we are the least sensitive in that frequency region.
I also can pan dead-accurately, as well ax mix spot-on. (Same value as on speakers, without looking, or comparing!)

At the studio, when one engineer uses the speakers, then the other uses IEMs. There was a video on this from quite prominent engineers.

Andrew Scheps even just uses Sony headphones, nothing fancy, especially when traveling, as far as I remember from an interview.

Dan Worrall has a video, recommending using headphones, if you don't have some huge million dollar studio for mixing sub bass.

And yeah, nothing matches IEMs for sound design.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 20 Mar 2024

RobC wrote:
20 Mar 2024
Andrew Scheps even just uses Sony headphones, nothing fancy, especially when traveling, as far as I remember from an interview.
Erm... I posted a video just a few replies back in this topic, where he discusses that :puf_wink:

He uses a Sony MDR-7506 set as his primary monitoring, even in his own studio (which is basically an untreated room in his house now). He only listens on speakers to check his mix. Based on this, I recently got the same headset myself, and I do understand why he likes to mix on these.
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Mohammadyarahmad
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Post 20 Mar 2024

RobC wrote:
20 Mar 2024
E30 II + L30 II + ATH-E70

You get a full professional, premium quality IEM system.

Personally, I could EQ sub bass with 0.1 dB accuracy, landing on the exact same value after tripple-checking. And we are the least sensitive in that frequency region.
I also can pan dead-accurately, as well ax mix spot-on. (Same value as on speakers, without looking, or comparing!)

At the studio, when one engineer uses the speakers, then the other uses IEMs. There was a video on this from quite prominent engineers.

Andrew Scheps even just uses Sony headphones, nothing fancy, especially when traveling, as far as I remember from an interview.

Dan Worrall has a video, recommending using headphones, if you don't have some huge million dollar studio for mixing sub bass.

And yeah, nothing matches IEMs for sound design.
Mixing using earbuds?
What is your working genre?

Mohammadyarahmad
Posts: 98
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Post 20 Mar 2024

moalla wrote:
19 Mar 2024
Hmm a 8inch speaker at 6m2 seems to big, at all I still have now a musicroom half of your size and my 5inch Eve SC205 monitors are more than enough maybe to big, but for mixing I use a 8inch diy Sub with 60watt sinus power (Portokasse Sub8) and that’s still to much for my tiny room, so this sub is more from 12m2 to 20m2.

I still tested these Sc205 against Eris5, Neumann Kh120 and HS7.

The flatest sound came out of the HS7, the Kh120 sounded wonderful but more Hi-Fi, the cheapest on the Eris5 played well but not so amazing than the others. At the end I bought the Sc205 of it’s neutral and good bass sound.

To check the mix I still like the Sony mdr 7506 more than my Dt880pro.

So some people still using in their small music spaces Eve Sc203 + TS107 sub or comparable 2.1 systems. At the end the right lofi speakers are very important to check the final mix, therefore I have a pair Logitech X140 closed pc speakers. This purchase was inspired by user Mimidancer and his/her music make speakers.
Almost all of Presonus' products are awkward in terms of quality and accuracy.
I think Yamaha HS7 is the best in the price range. Absolutely when it comes to acoustic treatments since it has lower bass than the others.

If 8-inch speakers are not appropriate for my room, how can I listen to lower frequencies, especially 60-40 Hz?

Mohammadyarahmad
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Post 20 Mar 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
20 Mar 2024
RobC wrote:
20 Mar 2024
Andrew Scheps even just uses Sony headphones, nothing fancy, especially when traveling, as far as I remember from an interview.
Erm... I posted a video just a few replies back in this topic, where he discusses that :puf_wink:

He uses a Sony MDR-7506 set as his primary monitoring, even in his own studio (which is basically an untreated room in his house now). He only listens on speakers to check his mix. Based on this, I recently got the same headset myself, and I do understand why he likes to mix on these.
Those are not flat headphones.
What do you notice when you using it?

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 20 Mar 2024

Mohammadyarahmad wrote:
20 Mar 2024
Those are not flat headphones.
Flat headphones don't exist :puf_wink:

Many headphones have (very) hyped lows and highs. The MDR-7506 is rather "flat" in that regard. Besides that, knowing your monitoring system (either monitors or headphones) is more important than having a flat response. Although, a (somewhat) flat response for your monitoring system will obviously help in making the right decisions.

Just to make the above even more clear, Andrew Scheps not only mixes exclusively with these, he is pretty vocal about NOT using any correction software (like SonarWorks).
Mohammadyarahmad wrote:
20 Mar 2024
What do you notice when you using it?
First of all, the 7506 is the first set of headphones I have that sound very close to my nearfields straight out of the box. And my nearfields ARE corrected (with SonarWorks), and I have a treated room. Secondly, the headphones are very revealing, that's why I mentioned I understand why Scheps mixes on these. I can even hear little mistakes in commercial CDs (yes. old people still listen to CDs, and I'm old).

I'm actually contemplating going the Andrew Scheps way and mixing on these headphones, and using my nearfields for checking the mix.
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splitpen
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Post 20 Mar 2024

Please keep in mind that room acoustics are as important as your speakers system. And always recommend to put as much as you can into the treatment. Without proper treatment you won't hear the true quality of your speakers and be fooled by influence of your room. Check out GIK acoustics for example for some reads about it. Forget those egg foam which only killing the highs. Measuring the room first with a mic to now the room modes and start from that point to bring acoustic treatment. The best thing is when youre a little bit handy you can build the Rockwool panels yourself for a fraction of the costs with a bit of breathing cloth, rockwool, and some wooden planks.100mm or more for the back wall and reflection points is definitely needed in most cases to grab into the bass area. There are a lot of diy movies on YT.
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moalla
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Post 22 Mar 2024

Mohammadyarahmad wrote:
20 Mar 2024
moalla wrote:
19 Mar 2024
Hmm a 8inch speaker at 6m2 seems to big, at all I still have now a musicroom half of your size and my 5inch Eve SC205 monitors are more than enough maybe to big, but for mixing I use a 8inch diy Sub with 60watt sinus power (Portokasse Sub8) and that’s still to much for my tiny room, so this sub is more from 12m2 to 20m2.

I still tested these Sc205 against Eris5, Neumann Kh120 and HS7.

The flatest sound came out of the HS7, the Kh120 sounded wonderful but more Hi-Fi, the cheapest on the Eris5 played well but not so amazing than the others. At the end I bought the Sc205 of it’s neutral and good bass sound.

To check the mix I still like the Sony mdr 7506 more than my Dt880pro.

So some people still using in their small music spaces Eve Sc203 + TS107 sub or comparable 2.1 systems. At the end the right lofi speakers are very important to check the final mix, therefore I have a pair Logitech X140 closed pc speakers. This purchase was inspired by user Mimidancer and his/her music make speakers.
Almost all of Presonus' products are awkward in terms of quality and accuracy.
I think Yamaha HS7 is the best in the price range. Absolutely when it comes to acoustic treatments since it has lower bass than the others.

If 8-inch speakers are not appropriate for my room, how can I listen to lower frequencies, especially 60-40 Hz?
A small subwoofer, 7 or 8 inch will help a lot. Most important I think a closed sub is the best choice, but it depends where you can put it, in terms of the passive membrane, what is mostly directed to the floor… So Bassreflex is the better choice for small rooms, some producers still using their small subs at the desk, like the Fostex PM Sub2, but it this one starts at 40hz.

I think a Esi10s with ca. 39litres volumina, would be a good addition in terms of sound, quality and what you have to pay for it.

As an example, my brother in his 12m2 room uses with his Alesis one monitors, an ordinary Sony Hi-Fi bass reflex sub with great results in terms of bass definition. From my experience, a heco hifi sub lacks in accuracy against my diy sub, but when it comes to lowest frequency’s the hometheater sub works better, more deep foundation.
https://soundcloud.com/user-594407128
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RobC
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Post 24 Mar 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
20 Mar 2024
RobC wrote:
20 Mar 2024
Andrew Scheps even just uses Sony headphones, nothing fancy, especially when traveling, as far as I remember from an interview.
Erm... I posted a video just a few replies back in this topic, where he discusses that :puf_wink:

He uses a Sony MDR-7506 set as his primary monitoring, even in his own studio (which is basically an untreated room in his house now). He only listens on speakers to check his mix. Based on this, I recently got the same headset myself, and I do understand why he likes to mix on these.
One can engineer even on a potato, TBH. I did professional mixes with cheapo SRH-240A for example. But I needed to listen quite loud, if I wanted to set sub bass accurately, due to the heavy drop in sub bass. While our "ears" adapt to the sound, it can be pretty fatiguing. The Sony seems alright, but even it has a sub bass drop, although not as bad as the aforementioned.

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 24 Mar 2024

Mohammadyarahmad wrote:
20 Mar 2024
RobC wrote:
20 Mar 2024
E30 II + L30 II + ATH-E70

You get a full professional, premium quality IEM system.

Personally, I could EQ sub bass with 0.1 dB accuracy, landing on the exact same value after tripple-checking. And we are the least sensitive in that frequency region.
I also can pan dead-accurately, as well ax mix spot-on. (Same value as on speakers, without looking, or comparing!)

At the studio, when one engineer uses the speakers, then the other uses IEMs. There was a video on this from quite prominent engineers.

Andrew Scheps even just uses Sony headphones, nothing fancy, especially when traveling, as far as I remember from an interview.

Dan Worrall has a video, recommending using headphones, if you don't have some huge million dollar studio for mixing sub bass.

And yeah, nothing matches IEMs for sound design.
Mixing using earbuds?
What is your working genre?
They are Tripple-Driver, Balanced Armature in-ear monitors. The difference is night and day (especially in sound). They are good for everything.

Broad term, but I'd say vocal electro pop. But I'm not limited to that. It's just what I like, mostly. That said, I'm mostly focused on sound design, and engineering these days. Aka. the nerdy part of music.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 24 Mar 2024

RobC wrote:
24 Mar 2024
The Sony seems alright, but even it has a sub bass drop, although not as bad as the aforementioned.
The 7506 drops off below 40 Hz, and only -3 dB at 30 Hz. That's pretty awesome for a headset at this price :puf_wink:

Andrew Scheps rarely mixes any sub-bass genres, and neither do I :puf_bigsmile:
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avasopht
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Post 24 Mar 2024

I bought headphones for this but am always too worried about ear damage to fully concentrate on the music.

I chose mine because of how similar they sounded to Genelecs in the store (though the newer editions moved manufacture to Taiwan and the sound is said to have changed a bit since then).

RobC
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Post 25 Mar 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
24 Mar 2024
RobC wrote:
24 Mar 2024
The Sony seems alright, but even it has a sub bass drop, although not as bad as the aforementioned.
The 7506 drops off below 40 Hz, and only -3 dB at 30 Hz. That's pretty awesome for a headset at this price :puf_wink:

Andrew Scheps rarely mixes any sub-bass genres, and neither do I :puf_bigsmile:
There are sub boosted Sony headphones, so not sure why they love cutting sub from studio oriented ones.

Any bass drums can have low subs, so it's never useless to have a proper full range.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 25 Mar 2024

RobC wrote:
25 Mar 2024
There are sub boosted Sony headphones, so not sure why they love cutting sub from studio oriented ones.
For the same reasons that not everyone needs a subwoofer.
RobC wrote:
25 Mar 2024
Any bass drums can have low subs, so it's never useless to have a proper full range.
There are many genres where low subs in bass drums are unwanted :puf_wink:
-------
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RobC
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Post 25 Mar 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
25 Mar 2024
RobC wrote:
25 Mar 2024
There are sub boosted Sony headphones, so not sure why they love cutting sub from studio oriented ones.
For the same reasons that not everyone needs a subwoofer.
RobC wrote:
25 Mar 2024
Any bass drums can have low subs, so it's never useless to have a proper full range.
There are many genres where low subs in bass drums are unwanted :puf_wink:
Well, personally then, I like a full sound and to take advantage of the whole (audible) frequency spectrum, as long as the music sounds good.

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