Ableton Push 3 - STANDALONE ABLETON LIVE!

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EnochLight
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Post 23 May 2023

Can't believe this hasn't been mentioned here yet. Looks like Akai's Force finally has a true competitor:






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PhillipOrdonez
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Post 23 May 2023

Remarkable!

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EnochLight
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Post 23 May 2023

So, funny thing - the CPU in Ableton Push 3 (standalone) is far more powerful than my current desktop CPU despite have 2 less cores and a lower clock speed! LMAO!!!


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But that 2.5 hour battery life... Oof...


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Also, it's +$2330 USD for standalone with bog regular Live 11. If you want Suite, then you're up to +$2500 USD. For up to 2.5 hours of battery life. :WTF: :lol: :lol: :lol: I get that it comes with Live Intro, but that's capped at 16 tracks. Period. :hmmm: And you *HAVE* to own a version of Live in order for Push 3 standalone to work, otherwise you're stuck with that 16 track cap and Intro.
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guitfnky
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Post 23 May 2023

I hope there aren’t too many people jumping straight into buying a Push 3, AND Ableton right out of the gate. I’d imagine most of those buying already have the version of Ableton they want. the analog to Push 2 (i.e. not standalone) is $1k, which is still a lot, but seems reasonable, given the feature set.

looks really cool! I’d consider it if I thought I’d use it for more than a glorified MIDI controller. 😅
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EnochLight
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Post 23 May 2023

guitfnky wrote:
23 May 2023
looks really cool! I’d consider it if I thought I’d use it for more than a glorified MIDI controller. 😅
LOL - same. I already own 11 Suite, so my "all-in" would be the $2000 USD launch price if I went standalone. But the only reason to get the standalone is to - well - be 100% standalone and take it with me places. But a 2.5 hour battery life is laughably too short, and I already own an Akai Force for my studio, so what's the point? I suppose if I really wanted Ableton Live 11 in a standalone unit with no computer attached, it's still an attractive option.

If I didn't already have an Akai Force.
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guitfnky
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Post 23 May 2023

EnochLight wrote:
23 May 2023
guitfnky wrote:
23 May 2023
looks really cool! I’d consider it if I thought I’d use it for more than a glorified MIDI controller. 😅
LOL - same. I already own 11 Suite, so my "all-in" would be the $2000 USD launch price if I went standalone. But the only reason to get the standalone is to - well - be 100% standalone and take it with me places. But a 2.5 hour battery life is laughably too short, and I already own an Akai Force for my studio, so what's the point? I suppose if I really wanted Ableton Live 11 in a standalone unit with no computer attached, it's still an attractive option.

If I didn't already have an Akai Force.
yeah, that’s some bad battery life. and considering battery life actually gets shorter over time…yikes. 😅

I still think standalone would be useful on stage, if it could load VSTs—even plugged in. it would be amazing to be able to load some Neural DSP plugins into Push on stage and perform live without needing a laptop.

I actually got a Macbook a few months ago so I can take Live on stage, and ditch my normal pedalboard, but the idea of bringing a laptop onstage now that we have our first gig scheduled is kinda starting to freak me out. 😅
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EdGrip
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Post 23 May 2023

I think the battery is secondarily for doing a bit of off-the-grid sketching, and primarily basically a UPS so that a power lead coming out on stage isn't a disaster.

It's very expensive, but I think it's justified when you consider all of the individual things it is - hardware sampler, MIDI and CV sequencer, ADAT live mixer, wavetable synthesiser, FM synthesiser, Ableton Live... It's absolutely the heart of a studio, easy.

Having said that, its cost makes it inaccessible to the vast majority of people, which feels at odds to Ableton's brand of democratising music production and performance. I wonder if a sub-£1k simplified MPE Push is in the works to compete with Launchpad and/or occupy the former Push 2 price bracket.

Anyway, I think it's cool and maybe I'll buy a used one in a few years like I did with Push 2.

PS - I am simply astounded this didn't leak.

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DaveyG
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Post 23 May 2023

Interesting product but those prices are going to have to come down if they want to sell bucketloads of 'em.
Standalone Maschine and MPCs are half that price.

The current Push 2 already felt a bit pricy and they've almost doubled it with the equivalent Push 3.

And here's a phrase to strike fear into the heart of anyone who expects their new two grand toy to work for years to come:
"Push comes with Wi-Fi, which is used to authorise the standalone version". You'd think the hardware would act as its own dongle....

avasopht
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Post 23 May 2023

They've really not thought through the pricing.

If this doesn't come with Ableton Live Suite and you have to pay an extra $400 for it, you're going to get a lot of people scratching their heads. A device at this price point needs to come with the full works for anyone who doesn't already have Suite.

Plus it's not even touch screen, so editing is going to be a bit of a nuisance.

It seems cool though

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 23 May 2023

Considering the non standalone version on the grounds it can be made standalone at a later date and costs half the price. Also very keen on the fact you can upgrade battery, processor and storage as technology progresses. That's huge. I love that. You should be able to improve your devices, not be forced to buy a new one every few years.

MuttReason
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Post 23 May 2023

I may buy a Push 3 to replace my Push 2 one day, but if I do it will be for the MPE pads which seem pretty amazing from what I've seen so far. I was thinking of buying a Linnstrument.... probably won't now.

But I'm not convinced by the standalone options personally because...

1) I'm not a big fan of the Live stock synth devices (apart from Wavetable), I used Live plus RRP exclusively (ie Reason devices are my only devices in Live apart from Live's Drum Buss). I guess some VSTs may be ported to Push 3 standalone over time (I'm sure that's feasible) but I doubt Reason RRP would be.

2) MIDI and audio editing on Push 3 look super fiddly and annoying. We're not talking Electron workflow levels here. I'd much rather edit clips with a mouse and a laptop, it would be so much faster. There's something for me about UIs that were originally designed for monitor/keyboard/mouse being ported across to different formats (iPad for Logic and now standalone Live on Push 3) where something is lost in translation. A UI designed from the ground up to work in hardware (Akai Force, Deluge, Elektron etc) just seems like a better bet, personally. I won't be dumping my Digitakt for this any time.

3) It's a 30cm x 30cm beast that weighs 4kg in standalone format. Not exactly super portable. That's pretty chunky. A MacBook Air plus Novation LaunchPad Pro plus FaderFox/MIDI Fighter Twister for knobby controls would be lighter, cheaper and a lot more capable in many ways.

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EnochLight
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Post 23 May 2023

There's a literal tsunami of YouTubers doing Push 3 videos, but I've yet to see one actually benchmark it - like how many instances of Simpler, Wavetable, Operator, Drum Synth, or various popular Max4Live devices can you run before crushing the CPU? How long of an audio track can you record in one go (does it even do disk streaming)? Assuming you're a Live Suite owner, how many audio tracks/instruments/etc can you get before the CPU craps out? These are important and should be addressed, IMHO.

As we learned from the Maschine+ early launch days, it doesn't perform that great.
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bxbrkrz
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Post 23 May 2023

MPE pads will be so much fun with MPE RRP one day, eventually, hopefully, soon maybe :puf_wink:
One critical aspect this device has is you could upgrade the computer inside, even from the regular Push 3. That's really big for me and my allergy to purposeful e-waste. I hope the (old by then) battery could be swapped to.
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DaveyG
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Post 23 May 2023

EnochLight wrote:
23 May 2023
There's a literal tsunami of YouTubers doing Push 3 videos, but I've yet to see one actually benchmark it - like how many instances of Simpler, Wavetable, Operator, Drum Synth, or various popular Max4Live devices can you run before crushing the CPU? How long of an audio track can you record in one go (does it even do disk streaming)? Assuming you're a Live Suite owner, how many audio tracks/instruments/etc can you get before the CPU craps out? These are important and should be addressed, IMHO.

As we learned from the Maschine+ early launch days, it doesn't perform that great.
This review covers some basic benchmark stuff:

https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/ableton-push-3

They mention 40 instances of Wavetable.

And anyone wondering if any VSTs will be ported to it are going to mostly be disappointed because it's running Linux.

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EnochLight
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Post 23 May 2023

DaveyG wrote:
23 May 2023
This review covers some basic benchmark stuff:

https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/ableton-push-3

They mention 40 instances of Wavetable.

And anyone wondering if any VSTs will be ported to it are going to mostly be disappointed because it's running Linux.
Nice find! From that article:
We managed to add 35 tracks of audio loops, each with a Hybrid Reverb. It should be said, however, that Push became sluggish to use well before hitting that limit.
I'm wondering if imposing a limit on how many instruments you can instantiate, like on Force/MPC, might have been a better approach.
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PhillipOrdonez
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Post 23 May 2023

Stimming had it go gnarly when he set the sample rate to 96khz

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EnochLight
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Post 23 May 2023

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
23 May 2023
Stimming had it go gnarly when he set the sample rate to 96khz
I literally thought we were talking "on the spectrum of autism" for a minute there... before I remembered there's a YouTuber that goes by 'Stimming'. :puf_bigsmile: So he changed sample-rate mid session and it glitched? What was the scenario? I can only imagine running that CPU at 96 Khz would kill the DSP.
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EdGrip
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Post 23 May 2023

The product life of Push 2 has been so long that I have some hope of Ableton designing this to last as long, or even longer. Push 2 remains a high quality piece of gear (apart from the deteriorating rubberised plastic, which I'm glad to see Ableton have abandoned for Push 3.)

RE audio editing on Push - I partially agree, but I love LOVE editing sample starts, ends, fades, slice markers etc with knobs on Push and I miss that when I'm at the computer.

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 23 May 2023

EnochLight wrote:
23 May 2023
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
23 May 2023
Stimming had it go gnarly when he set the sample rate to 96khz
I literally thought we were talking "on the spectrum of autism" for a minute there... before I remembered there's a YouTuber that goes by 'Stimming'. :puf_bigsmile: So he changed sample-rate mid session and it glitched? What was the scenario? I can only imagine running that CPU at 96 Khz would kill the DSP.
It's funny you call him a YouTuber, for me he's a musician first and a YouTuber second 😂 you will not regret watching this:


MuttReason
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Post 23 May 2023

EdGrip wrote:
23 May 2023
The product life of Push 2 has been so long that I have some hope of Ableton designing this to last as long, or even longer. Push 2 remains a high quality piece of gear (apart from the deteriorating rubberised plastic, which I'm glad to see Ableton have abandoned for Push 3.)

RE audio editing on Push - I partially agree, but I love LOVE editing sample starts, ends, fades, slice markers etc with knobs on Push and I miss that when I'm at the computer.
I may be misremembering but I don’t think audio edits on Push 2 snap to zero crossing points, either in audio clip edit or with a Simpler device loaded. IIRC this is one of the reasons why I stopped bothering with editing on Push and went back to mouse/keyboard, it was less frustrating and ultimately faster than on the Push.

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Ahornberg
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Post 23 May 2023

So many videos in such a short time.

Yes, Ableton well understands how to Push their new product to the market.

Tiny Montgomery
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Post 24 May 2023

Looks great and I watched a few of the videos yesterday (yes that Stimming one was fun). I have a Push 1 and I do use it but its usually only for VST guitars etc or just if the mood takes me. Couldn't possibly justify buying this.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 24 May 2023

Image

Crushing it :cool:
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joeyluck
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Post 24 May 2023

The only part of this I'm interested in is MPE, but of course can't justify the price to use it as a controller. Maybe they'll release a controller version?

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bxbrkrz
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Post 24 May 2023

joeyluck wrote:
24 May 2023
The only part of this I'm interested in is MPE, but of course can't justify the price to use it as a controller. Maybe they'll release a controller version?
Yes. For $999. Upgradable to standalone.
It's a great alternative if you were looking into something like the Linnstrument, but with full integration with Live, and audio interface with ADAT. Push 3 is not that expensive, from that perspective.

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