This is interesting.. Web based stem extraction tool.

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
WarStar
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Post 11 Jan 2023

I know some plugins do this, ie iZotope RX and a few others now. But for anyone interested here's a web based stem extraction tool.

https://www.lalal.ai/?fp_ref=hyperbits& ... n=01112023

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Rising Night Wave
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Post 24 Jan 2023

is this legal?
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Quarmat
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Post 24 Jan 2023

Rising Night Wave wrote:
24 Jan 2023
is this legal?
I supose it is legal to extract the stem, as it perfectly legit to sample other ppl's songs, the issues begin if you want to monetize your work incorporating samples/stems coming from other people's work.

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Rising Night Wave
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Post 24 Jan 2023

Quarmat wrote:
24 Jan 2023
Rising Night Wave wrote:
24 Jan 2023
is this legal?
I supose it is legal to extract the stem, as it perfectly legit to sample other ppl's songs, the issues begin if you want to monetize your work incorporating samples/stems coming from other people's work.
well, that is exactly waht i wanted to ask. - since this post was mentioned here on RTF where people do music for living and so.
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WarStar
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Post 24 Jan 2023

Rising Night Wave wrote:
24 Jan 2023
Quarmat wrote:
24 Jan 2023


I supose it is legal to extract the stem, as it perfectly legit to sample other ppl's songs, the issues begin if you want to monetize your work incorporating samples/stems coming from other people's work.
well, that is exactly waht i wanted to ask. - since this post was mentioned here on RTF where people do music for living and so.
I will say that getting caught sampling stems might be a little harder for algorithms to detect since those algorithms use sonic fingerprints of the entire song not just one element.. just a guess though..

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EnochLight
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Post 24 Jan 2023

gulshan212 wrote:
24 Jan 2023
Hello this is Gulshan Negi
Yes, this is really interesting. Well, there are several web-based tools available for stem extraction, which is the process of separating a music track into its individual components, such as drums, vocals, and instruments. Stem Creator and Spleeter is an examples of them.
Thanks
Hello Gulshan - what version of RS are you on? Welcome to the forums! ;)
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EnochLight
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Post 24 Jan 2023

Rising Night Wave wrote:
24 Jan 2023
is this legal?
We've been doing this with iZotope RX for many years now. Serato Studio just released it as a premier feature. Just like using torrents or guns, the tools and what they do are completely legal. It's what you use it for that determines whether it's legal or not.
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QVprod
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Post 24 Jan 2023

I’ve been using Moises for quite a while for this. Lalal is pretty decent as well. It’s not giving you perfectly separated files. But it’s great if you wanted to sample just the acapella, or just the bassline, or maybe the instrumental as a whole.

Or need to perform a song? Easily remove the instrumental. One time I needed to put vocals on a new version of an instrumental for an artist for reference but the vocals were recorded at a different studio and stored there. Was able to load the old version of the song and extract the acapella to use on the new version.

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EnochLight
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Post 25 Jan 2023

Agreed about the not being perfect part. I’ve not heard one of these services or software separating stems without some very audible digital artifacts that sometimes make the stems sound like a low bit-rate poorly encoded MP3 from the late 90’s.
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Post 26 Jan 2023

legal or not but wouldn't you benefit more from figuring out how the parts are played the record them yourself.

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miscend
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Post 26 Jan 2023

What algorithm is this based on? Izotope RX, Steinberg Spectralayers and Acon Acoustica are all based on the open source Spleeter.

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jam-s
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Post 27 Jan 2023

miscend wrote:
26 Jan 2023
What algorithm is this based on? Izotope RX, Steinberg Spectralayers and Acon Acoustica are all based on the open source Spleeter.
According to their about page it seems to be a custom baked NN model based on the same principle:
In 2020, we developed a unique neural network called Rocknet using 20TB of training data to extract instrumentals and voice tracks from songs. In 2021, we created Cassiopeia, a next-generation solution superior to Rocknet that allowed improved splitting results with significantly fewer audio artifacts.
And here's a link to a blog post on their current generation of the NN: https://www.lalal.ai/blog/phoenix-neura ... eparation/

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EnochLight
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Post 27 Jan 2023

gullum wrote:
26 Jan 2023
legal or not but wouldn't you benefit more from figuring out how the parts are played the record them yourself.
That's actually a fantastic use for these stem separation services. I don't need it to sound studio-grade, but if I can solo a bass guitar part, it makes learning it 1000x easier than trying to pick it out of a mix. Great technique for practicing your chops. :thumbup:
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Post 28 Jan 2023

EnochLight wrote:
27 Jan 2023
gullum wrote:
26 Jan 2023
legal or not but wouldn't you benefit more from figuring out how the parts are played the record them yourself.
That's actually a fantastic use for these stem separation services. I don't need it to sound studio-grade, but if I can solo a bass guitar part, it makes learning it 1000x easier than trying to pick it out of a mix. Great technique for practicing your chops. :thumbup:
Learning to pick out parts in music, by ear, is also very beneficial to better your skills.

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/ho ... ing-skills
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Post 28 Jan 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
28 Jan 2023
Learning to pick out parts in music, by ear, is also very beneficial to better your skills.
Well clearly, and I encourage budding musicians to hone this skill. But my point stands - if I need to learn a line as quickly as possible, getting the stems is obviously the easiest as well as quickest. :thumbup:
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gullum
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Post 28 Jan 2023

EnochLight wrote:
27 Jan 2023
gullum wrote:
26 Jan 2023
legal or not but wouldn't you benefit more from figuring out how the parts are played the record them yourself.
That's actually a fantastic use for these stem separation services. I don't need it to sound studio-grade, but if I can solo a bass guitar part, it makes learning it 1000x easier than trying to pick it out of a mix. Great technique for practicing your chops. :thumbup:
the other way around you would train your ears to hear better, and when it gets easily available people will skip the learning by ear and separate into stems run through some pitch detector and transfer to tabs, so they lose the ability to learn by ear and also reading notes

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jam-s
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Post 28 Jan 2023

gullum wrote:
28 Jan 2023
the other way around you would train your ears to hear better, and when it gets easily available people will skip the learning by ear and separate into stems run through some pitch detector and transfer to tabs, so they lose the ability to learn by ear and also reading notes
With the tech readily available this would not be a bad thing in my book as it lowers the bar of entry and aspiring musicians can then focus on other things like finding good sounds or melodies.

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QVprod
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Post 29 Jan 2023

gullum wrote:
28 Jan 2023
EnochLight wrote:
27 Jan 2023


That's actually a fantastic use for these stem separation services. I don't need it to sound studio-grade, but if I can solo a bass guitar part, it makes learning it 1000x easier than trying to pick it out of a mix. Great technique for practicing your chops. :thumbup:
the other way around you would train your ears to hear better, and when it gets easily available people will skip the learning by ear and separate into stems run through some pitch detector and transfer to tabs, so they lose the ability to learn by ear and also reading notes
This isn’t so black and white. There’s some music where individual parts are fairly complicated. Being able to isolate that one sound you need to more easily hear the part would be very useful at times. Most professional musicians outside of the classical, jazz, and broadway worlds aren’t reading notes as most modern songs are not written in notation by the actual songwriters.

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DaveyG
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Post 29 Jan 2023

The results of these things are variable but can be impressive on stuff with fairly sparse arrangements. I had some decent results with Chili Peppers songs but anything with a "wall of sound" production or with loads of synths in the mid-range don't come out so well.

I don't think these tools can get much better based solely on analysis of frequencies and placement in the stereo image. To take the next step they need to find a way to apply a musician's ear. When a guitarist or bass player listens to a song and tries to work out how to play it they aren't just listening to frequencies. They are applying years of accumulated knowledge about typical riffs, runs, scales, technique etc. For all the talk of neural networks and machine learning I think we're a long way from an AI musician's ear.

However, these tools are already a samplist's and remixer's dream. Instead of hunting around for a part of a song where the stuff you want is fairly isolated you can now just grab the drums or the bass and get on with your track. There is always bleed through and some missing stuff but in a new mix it's easy to conceal or supplement that.

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gullum
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Post 30 Jan 2023

QVprod wrote:
29 Jan 2023
gullum wrote:
28 Jan 2023


the other way around you would train your ears to hear better, and when it gets easily available people will skip the learning by ear and separate into stems run through some pitch detector and transfer to tabs, so they lose the ability to learn by ear and also reading notes
This isn’t so black and white. There’s some music where individual parts are fairly complicated. Being able to isolate that one sound you need to more easily hear the part would be very useful at times. Most professional musicians outside of the classical, jazz, and broadway worlds aren’t reading notes as most modern songs are not written in notation by the actual songwriters.
but then again I doubt that you could separate the stems if the parts are complicated and you could not hear by ear. but getting stems from the artist you could mute the parts you don't want to hear. But yes I see a use for it but also an abuse for it where young people trying to learn skip the ear training because they don't have to. Music is becoming numbers and 1 finger playing

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Post 30 Jan 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
28 Jan 2023
EnochLight wrote:
27 Jan 2023


That's actually a fantastic use for these stem separation services. I don't need it to sound studio-grade, but if I can solo a bass guitar part, it makes learning it 1000x easier than trying to pick it out of a mix. Great technique for practicing your chops. :thumbup:
Learning to pick out parts in music, by ear, is also very beneficial to better your skills.

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/ho ... ing-skills
Hearing parts in context AND isolated is one of the best ways to learn IMO, with pieces like Peter and the Wolf or The Young Persons Guide to the Orchestra for learning the instruments of the orchestra (because you can hear them on their own).
So I’d say you are both on point with your comments!
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-008'
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Post 30 Jan 2023

i really like Moises - it has synced browser and iOS app. As others mention, spleeter from deezer powers many others, and its free!

i think is great learning the parts to cover songs like that.
-isolate and focus on what you want to learn...
-mute it and play along with THE band
-mute the stupid singer !!

I also find it useful to "rescue" stuff. Anything trapped in your wav/mp3 folders from all of your years of songs.
You might get lucky and extract some old vocals (you loved your vox and hated the mix etc) or a guitar solo from different takes/versions.

That said... this tech in front of the A.I. ..and what is coming.. :o
Does anyone question the legality of a Skynet Music AI ™ owning multiple millions of copyrights overnight? lol

"the year is 2065.... i go to noodle on my Gibder Fenson Les Paulocaster ... the warning node electrifies my strings to alert me that *this portion of your melody matches song #192GJIFRj377 * My fingers go numb and the guitar immediately shuts down. As I sit and stare at this instrument of silence screaming at me from across the room, I wonder if the rumors for the smoke on the water kill patch are true..."
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avasopht
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Post 31 Jan 2023

Learning a song by ear has so many benefits.

I struggled with bwv 885 and had to learn by sheet. Bachianinha no1 on the other hand ... ✌️🎵🎉
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selig
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Post 31 Jan 2023

Look at it as another teaching tool for ear training. For example, how do you do ear training if you can’t measure your success/failure?
How do you identify intervals without getting the feedback as to whether or not you were correct?
You CAN use tools like this to learn by ear, and I’m suggesting you can even accelerate your learning with tools like this. I’ve not used it myself, but I HAVE used filtering and half speed ‘tricks’ to learn parts. Once you learn them, even using tricks like this, you can still acquire the benefits IMO.
That said, I’m as much an advocate of learning to hear parts as anyone, and have always ‘tested’ myself over the years by occasionally recreating tracks note by note as a music/audio exercise.
I’ve also used any ‘tricks’ available to me to accelerate my learning, and feel I’ve done fairly well.
Exhibit A: my note for note recreation of one of my favorite Ren and Stimpy cues “Happy Go Lucky”, where I not only recreated the notes but also the sounds - and all using Reason factory patches (plus a few extra ReFills IIRC - file available on request).


Yes, I did this WITHOUT stem extraction, which was not available years ago when I did this track. Yes, I would have completed it even quicker WITH stem extraction…
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avasopht
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Post 31 Jan 2023

selig wrote:
31 Jan 2023
Look at it as another teaching tool for ear training. For example, how do you do ear training if you can’t measure your success/failure?
How do you identify intervals without getting the feedback as to whether or not you were correct?
You CAN use tools like this to learn by ear, and I’m suggesting you can even accelerate your learning with tools like this. I’ve not used it myself, but I HAVE used filtering and half speed ‘tricks’ to learn parts. Once you learn them, even using tricks like this, you can still acquire the benefits IMO.
That said, I’m as much an advocate of learning to hear parts as anyone, and have always ‘tested’ myself over the years by occasionally recreating tracks note by note as a music/audio exercise.
I’ve also used any ‘tricks’ available to me to accelerate my learning, and feel I’ve done fairly well.
Exhibit A: my note for note recreation of one of my favorite Ren and Stimpy cues “Happy Go Lucky”, where I not only recreated the notes but also the sounds - and all using Reason factory patches (plus a few extra ReFills IIRC - file available on request).


Yes, I did this WITHOUT stem extraction, which was not available years ago when I did this track. Yes, I would have completed it even quicker WITH stem extraction…
This is the exact sort of thing PH should have used to show what was possible with Reason.
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