Any Reason (or Live) users here that use iZotope Neutron and/or Ozone?

[EnochLight]

Curious if there are any Reason or Ableton Live users here that also use iZotope Neutron as their channel strip/mix assistant, as well as master with Ozone? I'm on Ozone 9 and Neutron 3, and just saw the loyalty upgrade offer for $199 that gets you:

• Ozone 10 Advanced
• Neutron 4 (there's no more Advanced - it's just 1 version)
• Tonal Balance Control 2 (which normally came with Neutron Advanced)
• Neoverb
• Nectar 3 Plus

Neoverb sells for a laughable $249 USD by itself, but I'm really not in need of yet another reverb. Nectar 3 Plus is "ok", but I don't really do a lot of pitch editing for vocals, and I use Selig's still fabulous De-Esser for my de-essing. Still, for $199... seems like getting the upgrades to both Ozone 10 and Neutron 4 might be worth it. I do like them both a lot.

[integerpoet]

I picked up an iZotope "holiday bundle" a while back which included flavors of all that stuff. It was a lot less than $199.

I have enjoyed Ozone 9 and Neutron 3.

I feel like I've learned a lot just from studying Ozone's presets and it might be silly to try to duplicate all of what I like about it with REs just for the sake of eliminating a VST.

I like what Neutron's Sculptor does in moderation. (I don't have Soothe2.) And I like Neutron's interface for dynamic EQ. I haven't really seen similar in REs, but I haven't gone hunting for them either. I don't think whatever flavor of Neutron I have does the unmasking thing, but I do have TrackSpacer if I want that.

I don't feel as if the upgrade to Ozone 10 and Neutron 4 is urgent enough to merit such an expense. Why wouldn't I simply presume there will eventually be something else like that holiday bundle for those new versions? But if I were getting paid to do this work I wouldn't hesitate.

I agree with you about Neoverb. I mean, it's definitely nice, but … yeah. It's a reverb.

I feel like I'm missing the point of Nectar, but I too am a happy Selig customer when it comes to vocals.

I keep meaning to play with the visual mixer because they seem really excited about it.

[EnochLight]

Neoverb's biggest USP is the fact that is also has the "Smart Assistant" AI that will listen to your source and suggest a setting as a starting point. Just not really interested in something like that for my reverbs, because I almost always use reverbs in a non-traditional sense (so I imagine that the AI assistants won't offer me much that I'd find useful).

Nectar is specifically a vocal channel suite, and the AI "assist" and unmask modes are really its USP.

[integerpoet]

Neoverb's biggest USP is the fact that is also has the "Smart Assistant" AI that will listen to your source and suggest a setting as a starting point. Just not really interested in something like that for my reverbs, because I almost always use reverbs in a non-traditional sense (so I imagine that the AI assistants won't offer me much that I'd find useful). Nectar is specifically a vocal channel suite, and the AI "assist" and unmask modes are really its USP.

Indeed, almost all iZotope tools have AI assistants which they hope add value with which it will be difficult to compete, but I'm not finding them useful. I mean, it's undeniable that they do stuff and I guess you might learn something by watching them think and maybe something by observing the way they order links in the chain. But so far I have been A/B-ing the results and going meh, especially when bypassing with gain matching. (The one for reverb makes the least sense. How would they even begin to know what I want?) Maybe these assistants work better if you're mixing "real" instruments and the AI can "hear" each one? Maybe they're just for people who are paralyzed by too much choice when faced with a blank slate?

The presets for the individual modules, though, make a lot of sense to me; the names alone say a lot about how the modules work or why they might be (or were typically) used in a certain way. These names are not at all like those for, say, a synth, which are often abstract or joke-y. You can click one and listen and think about the name or realize it reminds you of something and look at the knobs it turned and think: "Oh, so that's how that works. Weird! No wonder I couldn't figure out how to make my thing sound like I wanted."

[-008']

I own nearly all of the Izotope stuff, but i am straying away from them after seeing the recent release.

I understand people say I'm the 1% because I only used Ozone standalone, but that's the only way I used it, so why pay for something "reduced"?

If it's like all the YT shills and Izotope product managers say - "the vast majority uses our component plugs in a DAW"
Well.. if using components is the way, then I am just going to use custom components like SSL, Sonible, etc. and use them in Wavelab or something.
Maybe that's a good thing, I wouldn't want to have "that iZotope sound"

They are becoming useless for me as a company now because of the: tendency toward abandonware, non-existent bugfixes (forget updates) and the fact that there are just more options these days. Meanwhile they just literally pitched me an upgrade with LESS options. lol

They also just seem over obsessed with the AI stuff. And it's not even that good. So I would like to submit to the ether something that i often say about A.I. -
"Artificial Intelligence is much like Artificial Sweetener. the results are meh and it's bad for you." -me c.2019

Wait.. are we talking about iZotope iZotope, Inc or, iZotope Inc. ?

whichisit.png (1.49 KiB) Viewed 1053 times

[jam-s]

Wait.. are we talking about iZotope iZotope, Inc or, iZotope Inc. ?

whichisit.png

I think their AI is still discussing on which one to choose.

p.s.: I'm alson in the camp of standalone user for mastering and not opting-in to telemetry, so I'm also not really enticed to upgrade my collection of their stuff.

[huggermugger]

I use Neutron 3 specifically for the excellent multiband Transient Shaper.

[EnochLight]

They also just seem over obsessed with the AI stuff. And it's not even that good.

See, on this - I wholeheartedly disagree. Is their AI smart assistants perfect? Not by a long shot. But they ABSOLUTELY get you close to a great starting point, which saves a boat load of time when producing. I mean, I’d never rely on the smart assistant results to any great degree, but they do almost always offer a great starting point.

[Billy+]

I'm on ozone 8 and neutron 3 both advanced versions, personally I haven't upgraded yet due to missing standalone in ozone10 and im still happy running 3 as individual components. I'm a big fan of AI for a quick starting point but sometimes it does seem to add components I end up removing or not using so there's definitely room for improvement.

Still great products and the ipc makes them far more powerful for workflow than any other devices.

[ordjob2]

I once bought an MPS 1 license from someone at KVR for some small amount - $70 or $80 I think. Then I got a loyalty offer for MPS 4.1 for $49. But I mainly use iZotope RX for voice editing and sometimes separate iZotope Ozone plugins for voice too. I did not like artificial intelligence, it worked strangely.

[-008']

They also just seem over obsessed with the AI stuff. And it's not even that good.

See, on this - I wholeheartedly disagree. Is their AI smart assistants perfect? Not by a long shot. But they ABSOLUTELY get you close to a great starting point, which saves a boat load of time when producing. I mean, I’d never rely on the smart assistant results to any great degree, but they do almost always offer a great starting point.

I understand that perspective. I guess that I still consider the only great starting point for a master, is a great mix.
I have tried their AI hundreds of times. If I open it today to do something, I would just rather start from flat.

So for me, If it really doesn't save me that much time, doesn't do much for audible results, and then I will still have to take it from starting point to the finishing point.. well then what was the actual point? (the answer is: more money for iZotope)

Maybe my mixes are just so perfect that the AI calculates, then realizes and contemplates it's redundancy, and then gives me crap results out of spite.
haha I won't rule that out i suppose

[EnochLight]

I haven't upgraded yet due to missing standalone in ozone 10

Crap - seriously??! How did I miss that - they removed the standalone version of Ozone in version 10?? You mean I would *HAVE* to use it as a plugin in my DAW??!

* EDIT: confirmed. Yeah, screw that noise. I'll stick to Ozone 9. I guess I should be honored that I'm finally in the 1%! Lol!

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[PhillipOrdonez]

Yeah. Personally, I never used it standalone app because I like having all my other plugins for mastering available. The standalone app was too limiting for me.

[EnochLight]

Yeah. Personally, I never used it standalone app because I like having all my other plugins for mastering available. The standalone app was too limiting for me.

I hear you. I was just talking to a friend about this because they just jumped on the bundle upgrade (they too only use it as a plugin in their DAW). For me, I like keeping my mixing/production side seperate from my mastering stage, so I've always used it as a standalone app only using the Ozone modules. Making me run it as a plugin just keeps me - mentally - in the production stage, and I'm always tempted to tweak and change things.

Ahhhh well, if 99% of their users only use it as a plugin, I suppose the writing was on the wall. Anyway, I'll stick to Ozone 9 - there's really nothing new in Ozone 10 that seems worth a $100 upgrade to me anyway.

[-008']

Crap - seriously??! How did I miss that - they removed the standalone version of Ozone in version 10?? You mean I would *HAVE* to use it as a plugin in my DAW??!

* EDIT: confirmed. Yeah, screw that noise. I'll stick to Ozone 9. I guess I should be honored that I'm finally in the 1%! Lol

That was precisely what switched me off of them. On launch (and to this day as evidenced by your reaction) They buried the fact that standalone was nixed.
I went looking and found the product manager's comments and youtube interviews. He stated in different places both that "standalone is too hard, we can't do it" and later.. "our records show nobody uses standalone" That was the end of them for me. I have been a paying iZotope customer since v3 i think. 20 years!!
Every year I updated because that's how I roll if I use something. (updates didnt used to be every year, but you understand me)
And I wont replace it by going off to pluginalliance either, as that is all the same conglomerate now. lol

Yeah. Personally, I never used it standalone app because I like having all my other plugins for mastering available. The standalone app was too limiting for me.

I dont understand comments like this. that argument is done for me because the Standalone Ozone also HOSTED VSTs!
We had it all! I was just in the middle of building myself a Ozone Fusion rack mastering preset with that $30 week thing SSL was doing.

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[PhillipOrdonez]

Yeah. Personally, I never used it standalone app because I like having all my other plugins for mastering available. The standalone app was too limiting for me.

I hear you. I was just talking to a friend about this because they just jumped on the bundle upgrade (they too only use it as a plugin in their DAW). For me, I like keeping my mixing/production side seperate from my mastering stage, so I've always used it as a standalone app only using the Ozone modules. Making me run it as a plugin just keeps me - mentally - in the production stage, and I'm always tempted to tweak and change things.

Ahhhh well, if 99% of their users only use it as a plugin, I suppose the writing was on the wall. Anyway, I'll stick to Ozone 9 - there's really nothing new in Ozone 10 that seems worth a $100 upgrade to me anyway.

I also keep them separate. I master in a new project

[PhillipOrdonez]

Yeah. Personally, I never used it standalone app because I like having all my other plugins for mastering available. The standalone app was too limiting for me.

I dont understand comments like this. that argument is done for me because the Standalone Ozone also HOSTED VSTs!
We had it all! I was just in the middle of building myself a Ozone Fusion rack mastering preset with that $30 week thing SSL was doing.

vst in ozone standalone.png

Really? As many as you want? They did have limited slots.

I guess if there's a feature you want in the be version but you want to use the standalone... Then just load the new plugin inside the standalone and there you have it. The best of both worlds! Because new versions don't overwrite old ones, i still have old versions in my product portal. I don't install them cause I don't need them, but you can!

[-008']

I dont understand comments like this. that argument is done for me because the Standalone Ozone also HOSTED VSTs!
We had it all! I was just in the middle of building myself a Ozone Fusion rack mastering preset with that $30 week thing SSL was doing.

vst in ozone standalone.png

Really? As many as you want? They did have limited slots.

I guess if there's a feature you want in the be version but you want to use the standalone... Then just load the new plugin inside the standalone and there you have it. The best of both worlds! Because new versions don't overwrite old ones, i still have old versions in my product portal. I don't install them cause I don't need them, but you can!

I've just loaded all 15 Ozone modules and then 10 more VST and got bored with it now. So yes, really. as many as i want.
Although in a mastering sense I hardly use more than 5 or so things. So it covered my needs and I had fun using it.

Ditching the standalone was a bummer for me. I guess i'm the 1% of the 1% since I: used standalone, knew it hosed VST, and used it just like that.

I understand the reason to scrap it. it's about resources. They cant make Ozone standalone run with all the external plugs and vst stuff because that is essentially a DAW in it's own right, and that's a tough thing to do/maintain/update. However, i was only ever a buyer for the Ozone as a Standalone (mini mastering DAW). All of their plugs were just the extras to me.

The standalone Ozone was only ever a very "simplified" solution anyway, so I am just going to get something very simple to replace it.
like wavelab elements or even Reaper, I need to do some research. Did you mention what host you used? Always open to recommendations!

[-008']

If we have learned nothing else today about Art & A.I then let us answer this:
Do we really want this guy mastering our music?

He's all ears!

AI mastering engineer in studio laughing.png (709.94 KiB) Viewed 922 times

[PhillipOrdonez]

I stand corrected. The standalone works. It still does! You can still use it even if you upgrade. It is not going anywhere.

[EnochLight]

I stand corrected. The standalone works. It still does! You can still use it even if you upgrade. It is not going anywhere.

The standalone version of Ozone 9 still works, but Ozone 10 doesn't come with a standalone version TMK.

[-008']

I stand corrected. The standalone works. It still does! You can still use it even if you upgrade. It is not going anywhere.

No it's not going anywhere. But i am! I just prefer to use (invest in) things under active development.
Again it is also about them just abandoning stuff, with little to no bugfixes or updates per version.
Im sure I could use it plenty before it stops working but by then I'll have moved on...

Imagine if Reason dropped Thor for v13...
"Version 12 works. It still does! You can still use Thor in 12 even if you upgrade to Reason 13. It is not going anywhere."

[PhillipOrdonez]

I stand corrected. The standalone works. It still does! You can still use it even if you upgrade. It is not going anywhere.

The standalone version of Ozone 9 still works, but Ozone 10 doesn't come with a standalone version TMK.

Yeah, but you can use the 10 plugins inside the 9 standalone

[PhillipOrdonez]

I stand corrected. The standalone works. It still does! You can still use it even if you upgrade. It is not going anywhere.

No it's not going anywhere. But i am! I just prefer to use (invest in) things under active development.
Again it is also about them just abandoning stuff, with little to no bugfixes or updates per version.
Im sure I could use it plenty before it stops working but by then I'll have moved on...

Imagine if Reason dropped Thor for v13...
"Version 12 works. It still does! You can still use Thor in 12 even if you upgrade to Reason 13. It is not going anywhere."

It is the same but not quite. backwards, in fact, cause in my scenario you can still use the latest tools, so it would be like being able to use 13 AND Thor at the same time.

[integerpoet]

There might be a niche for an app which provides a workflow similar to that of the app dropped from Ozone 10.

For the DSP work, it would just load plug-ins, with Ozone 10 specifically in mind.

You'd sell… two or three of them, I bet. So the price should be, what, US$30000 each?

But comparatively speaking it would be low-effort for someone with relevant skills.

Or maybe something like Audacity already does much of the job? If it weren't so butt-ugly?