ReasonTalk.com

Lol. Yeah, they didn’t play that very well. On the other hand there is a lot people losing their shit over a spectral doodad that they probably would never use anyway.

HUm...definition of "Bitwig Studio" is...??? Is it only the DAW or all products they publish? They see free updates for Bitwig Studio. The Spectral Suite seem to be a different product, so blurp...bad luck for you....


But i get the point, that they seem to use the money for different things to even squeeze out more money from their loyal customers...Huhhh...never had thought a company would do that

Loque wrote: ↑

06 Oct 2022

HUm...definition of "Bitwig Studio" is...??? Is it only the DAW or all products they publish? They see free updates for Bitwig Studio. The Spectral Suite seem to be a different product, so blurp...bad luck for you....


But i get the point, that they seem to use the money for different things to even squeeze out more money from their loyal customers...Huhhh...never had thought a company would do that

I am 100% agreeing with you.

I am a passionate bitwig user and I don't give a s.... of them proposing a paid plug in. I don't own the people, I own the DAW. and as long as it is still updated with daw related features I am freaking fine. They are updating sometimes every week, at least once a month. How can people still complain...

We should understand that as a fact that music world is full of drama queens...

That's also what we see here with critics against reason studios that are sometimes unreasonable. (some critics are though if stated once and not everyday).


On the bitwig story, a talented artist:polarity, who is making awesome music and a shit ton of good YouTube advanced tutorials tried to defend them.
Then on the video comments, it was implied that he was defending them because certainly the plugin was offered to him for free. Like he is selling his should for 79usd...
People are so assholes sometimes it goes beyond imagination...

I think one of Bitwig's appeals was that if you bought the full DAW, everything was included. This seems to be laying the groundwork for a Lite/Standard/Suite type arrangement. Maybe 16-track-No-Grid/Full+Grid/Full+Grid+FX Suite.

Hmm. This does betray all reasonable expectations of the maintenance subscription.

After all, technically speaking, any DAW update can be turned into a separate product that you have to pay extra for. They can just release them as DAW-extensions, and now you have to pay an extra £50 for the Daw Extension that gives you the new piano roll

Players are a little this as they do offer traditional DAW features as a plugin that just happens to take place in a rack.

Either way, they know they betrayed reasonable expectation of the maintenance subscription (or whatever they call it).

After a bit of thought at the time, their upgrade model makes sense to me. You can still opt to pay the upgrade fee at the same time that a new full version is released, or every other full version, or however you like to do it. It's just you don't *have* to. You don't have to worry if you upgrade now will there be a new full version in 5 months, what's the grace period, blah blah.

If Bitwig wanna go all Suite that's fine - I'm an Ableton Suite user, after all - it's just that I always enjoyed their "this is the product, one price" philosophy up til now (beginner versions aside).

Jac459 wrote: ↑

06 Oct 2022

I am a passionate bitwig user and I don't give a s.... of them proposing a paid plug in. I don't own the people, I own the DAW. and as long as it is still updated with daw related features I am freaking fine. They are updating sometimes every week, at least once a month. How can people still complain...

We should understand that as a fact that music world is full of drama queens...

That's also what we see here with critics against reason studios that are sometimes unreasonable. (some critics are though if stated once and not everyday).


On the bitwig story, a talented artist:polarity, who is making awesome music and a shit ton of good YouTube advanced tutorials tried to defend them.
Then on the video comments, it was implied that he was defending them because certainly the plugin was offered to him for free. Like he is selling his should for 79usd...
People are so assholes sometimes it goes beyond imagination...

The issue here is the way they have gone about it and changed the goalposts regarding what the upgrade fee includes. They've even changed the website regarding what the upgrade plan gets you, which just comes across as underhanded:



As soon as I received the email announcing the new devices and saw they were charging for them, I thought that it wasn't going to sit well and was going to cause problems, which it has. In fact, this is the largest amount of discussion regarding Bitwig I've seen and it's mostly negative. The question is, have they destroyed the viability of their business with this move? It's hard to say at the moment but there are a lot of copies being put up for sale and a lot of people saying they're done with it. That they haven't bothered making a statement in the 24 hours since the backlash began doesn't look good either.

Ultimately, I'm watching and waiting to see what happens next...

Jac459 wrote: ↑

06 Oct 2022

Loque wrote: ↑

06 Oct 2022

HUm...definition of "Bitwig Studio" is...??? Is it only the DAW or all products they publish? They see free updates for Bitwig Studio. The Spectral Suite seem to be a different product, so blurp...bad luck for you....


But i get the point, that they seem to use the money for different things to even squeeze out more money from their loyal customers...Huhhh...never had thought a company would do that

I am 100% agreeing with you.

I am a passionate bitwig user and I don't give a s.... of them proposing a paid plug in. I don't own the people, I own the DAW. and as long as it is still updated with daw related features I am freaking fine. They are updating sometimes every week, at least once a month. How can people still complain...

We should understand that as a fact that music world is full of drama queens...

That's also what we see here with critics against reason studios that are sometimes unreasonable. (some critics are though if stated once and not everyday).


On the bitwig story, a talented artist:polarity, who is making awesome music and a shit ton of good YouTube advanced tutorials tried to defend them.
Then on the video comments, it was implied that he was defending them because certainly the plugin was offered to him for free. Like he is selling his should for 79usd...
People are so assholes sometimes it goes beyond imagination...

Bitwig literally changed their own wording of what the upgrade plan includes just as they dropped this, that's sketchy, to say the least, would it have killed them to have it change after any current upgrade plan runs out, with an explanation, even if it was that they needed the money?, they put upgrade renewals on sale recently, then changed the goalposts.

As for Polarity, he is the biggest influencer for the Bitwig guys, and he was not criticized for showcasing the new devices, he was called out for claiming to have no idea why anyone would be upset at an actual or perceived dirty move by Bitwig, that either takes a lot of mental gymnastics or a personal relationship.
I like Polarity and like his channel, but he was doing some trolling himself, it is there in black and white. I hope it stops and things cool off for both sides, but just like Bitwig he didn't read the room, he could have showcased the devices and stayed out of the quagmire, the abuse started after he started defending their decision. No, he shouldn't have gotten abused and it was and is wrong, but he decided to wade in when he didn't have to.

I have recently discovered State Azure’s and Polarity’s YouTube channels and have become very interested in Bitwig. I was actually going to keep an eye out for a BF upgrade sale from my 8-track license just to play with the grid. But from reading the forums and watching the vids today, it seems they’ve done a bait and switch, according to users. And one point came up that was very interesting on quite a few YouTube comments: If these tools were offered as VST3, AAX and AU along with being inside Bitwig then it wouldn’t sting so much cause they wouldn’t be exclusive to the DAW.

I wonder how true that is? Cause some have returned to Reason and even support RE’s, due to the RRP, who initially left cause they were tired of paying to be in a completely closed environment. And we got a heads up about RE’s before they became a regular thing, so I see their point on being mad about that.

Anyway, I hope I can get a cheap license since 147% of the people complaining in the comments are threatening to leave Bitwig and go back the their previous DAW that they started hating for the same reason they now hate Bitwig

Bitwiggly Studioz Suite.

Chi-Individual wrote: ↑

06 Oct 2022

Anyway, I hope I can get a cheap license since 147% of the people complaining in the comments are threatening to leave Bitwig and go back the their previous DAW that they started hating for the same reason they now hate Bitwig

The smart thing to do is using a DAW because of what the DAW does, not because of what the company behind the DAW does.

Hmmm... I have to make that my tagline

EDIT: Done

I think they would have gotten away with it if wasn’t for the intrusive banner ad they put in the DAW itself. I hope R/S don’t get any stupid ideas about pushing R+ to perpetuals inside the DAW!

cymek74 wrote: ↑

06 Oct 2022

Bitwig literally changed their own wording of what the upgrade plan includes just as they dropped this, that's sketchy, to say the least, would it have killed them to have it change after any current upgrade plan runs out, with an explanation, even if it was that they needed the money?, they put upgrade renewals on sale recently, then changed the goalposts.

As for Polarity, he is the biggest influencer for the Bitwig guys, and he was not criticized for showcasing the new devices, he was called out for claiming to have no idea why anyone would be upset at an actual or perceived dirty move by Bitwig, that either takes a lot of mental gymnastics or a personal relationship.
I like Polarity and like his channel, but he was doing some trolling himself, it is there in black and white. I hope it stops and things cool off for both sides, but just like Bitwig he didn't read the room, he could have showcased the devices and stayed out of the quagmire, the abuse started after he started defending their decision. No, he shouldn't have gotten abused and it was and is wrong, but he decided to wade in when he didn't have to.

Well, we don't strongly disagree. My point is that the change is minor. Common, we knew we were not buying their soul for a few hundreds dollars. Just DAW upgrade.
Now they propose something on top. This is certainly poorly explained but at the end of the day none of us have been stolen.

I am an IT manager for a bank, my teams are building a lots of software and we are also buying a lot of software from editors. I can tell you as a fact that biwig, reason studios, they do that because they are passionate. They would earn a fucking shit ton of money if they decided to go to financial services.
So basically, when there are passionate devs, trying to earn a bit more money because of there splendid work, I am not chocked. I am happily paying.
And by the way, I am also the owner of a github opensource project that I am doing for free and with hundreds of users. So I also value opensource and selflessness.

But at one moment, talent has to be paid. End of the story.
So personnaly, I just bought the extensions because it is from bitwig and I know it will rock and maybe more importantly, it will help reward them.

As per Polarity, I tried to express his views on their selling practices, it is no reason to troll him.

Before I was thinking criticising so much the hard work of these passionate people was acting like an asshole but somebody used the term drama queen in this forum and I think it is more accurate.
All this noise because of paid plugins is just drama queening. No big deal. Bitwig users should buy it if they want it. And not buy it if they don't want.

I am more chocked by the asshole youtubers titling 'big issue", "bitwig fucked up' they are just trying to make click bait and views out of the situation. That's disgusting in my view, and was an immediate un follow on my side.
I am sure these are the same cheapstakes who use vital and never made any donation to the genius creator of it.

Chi-Individual wrote: ↑

06 Oct 2022

I have recently discovered State Azure’s and Polarity’s YouTube channels and have become very interested in Bitwig. I was actually going to keep an eye out for a BF upgrade sale from my 8-track license just to play with the grid. But from reading the forums and watching the vids today, it seems they’ve done a bait and switch, according to users. And one point came up that was very interesting on quite a few YouTube comments: If these tools were offered as VST3, AAX and AU along with being inside Bitwig then it wouldn’t sting so much cause they wouldn’t be exclusive to the DAW.

I wonder how true that is? Cause some have returned to Reason and even support RE’s, due to the RRP, who initially left cause they were tired of paying to be in a completely closed environment. And we got a heads up about RE’s before they became a regular thing, so I see their point on being mad about that.

Anyway, I hope I can get a cheap license since 147% of the people complaining in the comments are threatening to leave Bitwig and go back the their previous DAW that they started hating for the same reason they now hate Bitwig

Bitwig is awesome... Look at the number of features you buy for not a lot of money, it is crazy..

xylyx wrote: ↑

06 Oct 2022

Jac459 wrote: ↑

06 Oct 2022

I am a passionate bitwig user and I don't give a s.... of them proposing a paid plug in. I don't own the people, I own the DAW. and as long as it is still updated with daw related features I am freaking fine. They are updating sometimes every week, at least once a month. How can people still complain...

We should understand that as a fact that music world is full of drama queens...

That's also what we see here with critics against reason studios that are sometimes unreasonable. (some critics are though if stated once and not everyday).


On the bitwig story, a talented artist:polarity, who is making awesome music and a shit ton of good YouTube advanced tutorials tried to defend them.
Then on the video comments, it was implied that he was defending them because certainly the plugin was offered to him for free. Like he is selling his should for 79usd...
People are so assholes sometimes it goes beyond imagination...

The issue here is the way they have gone about it and changed the goalposts regarding what the upgrade fee includes. They've even changed the website regarding what the upgrade plan gets you, which just comes across as underhanded:



As soon as I received the email announcing the new devices and saw they were charging for them, I thought that it wasn't going to sit well and was going to cause problems, which it has. In fact, this is the largest amount of discussion regarding Bitwig I've seen and it's mostly negative. The question is, have they destroyed the viability of their business with this move? It's hard to say at the moment but there are a lot of copies being put up for sale and a lot of people saying they're done with it. That they haven't bothered making a statement in the 24 hours since the backlash began doesn't look good either.

Ultimately, I'm watching and waiting to see what happens next...

Sad... We are destroying our own market... Trolling all the companies trying to make money. At the end, we will have all the shitty developers, talented ones will go to other sectors.

Part of me is happy to see Bitwig get a bit of flak for a change. Does that make me a bastard?

DaveyG wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2022

Part of me is happy to see Bitwig get a bit of flak for a change. Does that make me a bastard?

lol

crimsonwarlock wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2022

Chi-Individual wrote: ↑

06 Oct 2022

Anyway, I hope I can get a cheap license since 147% of the people complaining in the comments are threatening to leave Bitwig and go back the their previous DAW that they started hating for the same reason they now hate Bitwig

The smart thing to do is using a DAW because of what the DAW does, not because of what the company behind the DAW does.

Hmmm... I have to make that my tagline

EDIT: Done

It’s difficult to separate the two, since what a DAW does is directly determined by what the company behind the DAW does.

DaveyG wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2022

Part of me is happy to see Bitwig get a bit of flak for a change. Does that make me a bastard?

Only a part of you
Relax, the other part is awesome!

selig wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2022

It’s difficult to separate the two, since what a DAW does is directly determined by what the company behind the DAW does.

Nope. When I start Reason on my computer, there is absolutely nothing the company does that influence what the DAW is doing here on my computer ...besides maybe not letting me log in, as I run with online authorization

BitWig is a DAW born of mutiny and outright mimicry.

And people are surprised to get kicked in the WigglyBits ?

crimsonwarlock wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2022

selig wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2022

It’s difficult to separate the two, since what a DAW does is directly determined by what the company behind the DAW does.

Nope. When I start Reason on my computer, there is absolutely nothing the company does that influence what the DAW is doing here on my computer ...besides maybe not letting me log in, as I run with online authorization

Sorry I’m not able to make any sense of this, I’m sure I’m missing something simple…

If they really have tried to retroactively change the terms of existing licenses from "all software updates" to "all Bitwig Studio updates", then it seems to me they could be in legal jeopardy.

And in any case this seems like a marketing botch. How would it have hurt them to say "From this day forward, new licenses and renewals will include all Bitwig Studio updates" and honor the old terms — real or perceived — for existing customers for another few months?

(Some people would still be angry because they felt they'd committed to rent forever rather than buy annually. I would expect Bitwig to go only so far to coddle feelings.)