Should I get a Rode NT1/AI-1 Kit, or a similarly-priced Audio Interface? (Help, please!)

[RobC]

So, the situation is, that I was looking a lot for something proper that can be used with my Audio-Technica ATH-E70 in-ears. They are high end professional, and oddly, since I bought them (which was pricey enough already), the price went up to 1.5x! So I guess I gotta hurry before other tools' prices may or may not skyrocket as well.

Anyway, I spent a crazy amount of time searching. It seemed, that Schiit create DACs and Amps that are worth the money. But are a lot more expensive in their only shop in Europe, and they barely have anything in stock.

Now, I'd really love to get something that's a keeper for a long time. These E70s seem like the holy grail of IEMs (quality and somewhat fair price). As such, I clearly would want a decent Amp and DAC (or good a interface). Again, Schiit would be great, but no can do. (There goes that holy grail...) Audio Interfaces aren't the best. They come with a lot of features in an all-in-one box, which compromise the quality of each component, and I probably won't use most of them.

If I were to get something, focused on the E70 IEMs, then all I need is a great DAC, and a headphone amplifier part. Those need to be the best quality - the rest is irrelevant.

Another option is, that I get the Rode NT1 (microphone) Kit, which comes bundled with the AI-1 Audio Interface at a bit lower price. Why that? -nobody asked. Well, The Rode NT1 is yet again a "holy grail" for me, just like the E70. It's high-end enough for my tastes. It would be perfect for a long time, and I would have no reason to get a better one, unless money will become less of an issue.
The Rode AI-1 (audio interface) is said to be pretty good, and beats a simple Focusrite Scarlett (same price). Although it only goes up to 96 kHz ~ but maybe there's some trick to over-sample Reason to 192 kHz when I need it for specific, nerdy things. Perhaps ASIO4All can do that? I don't remember. Anyway, the AI-1 has 1 input, a headphone out (and speaker outputs). At least I'd use most of those. There isn't too much nonsense. And later on, I can give it to someone when I get an upgrade.
Then again, most of my voice recordings would go through a vocoder, or get pitch shifted down, and for that, my current USB microphone does a pretty good job. Even without effects, aka a raw recording, it sounds pretty decent, so a microphone upgrade is not a priority.

To sum it all up, here's the deal:
Here's a website with Audio Interfaces https://www.hangszerdiszkont.hu/sound-c ... ces?page=4

It's on page 4. Everything before the Rode NT1/AI-1 Kit, can come into question. (You can go backwards at the bottom of the page)

My question is:

Do you see any device (below the 119,990 FT price range), where the device would be worth it, when taking advantage only of the DAC and headphone amplifier, in case I would like something that is "worthy" for the E70 IEMs?

OR

Is it better to shop for a high-end interface another time to get a high-end performance? (Since this price range might only do midrange quality?) And should I instead go for the Rode NT1/AI-1 Kit bundle, since the microphone is definitely pro, and the interface is still a decent entry level professional device?

To simplify, you take a look, see a good interface and say "Dude, you should totally get this/that interface, because the sound is high-end quality, and the more expensive ones won't make much of a difference for just using the headphone output!"

[jam-s]

Even cheap on-board sound chip DACs have higher quality than your ears are likely to be able to discriminate. The DAC usually is not the critical part but the low pass filter which reduces the frequency range back into human hearing territory.

Before chasing holy grails just on advice of some people trying to sell you expensive hardware, try to get a proper understanding of sample rate and digital audio (I can see you don't have this as your suggestion to "overclock" the audio interface via software is just ridiculous):
https://xiph.org/video/

Still getting the Rode NT1/AI-1 kit does not sound too bad of an idea.

[RobC]

Even cheap on-board sound chip DACs have higher quality than your ears are likely to be able to discriminate. The DAC usually is not the critical part but the low pass filter which reduces the frequency range back into human hearing territory.

Before chasing holy grails just on advice of some people trying to sell you expensive hardware, try to get a proper understanding of sample rate and digital audio (I can see you don't have this as your suggestion to "overclock" the audio interface via software is just ridiculous):
https://xiph.org/video/

Still getting the Rode NT1/AI-1 kit does not sound too bad of an idea.

Thank you for the advice!

Well, yeah a good quality amplifier, filter and DAC is all I'm primarily looking for. I'll check those videos, though the guy looks familiar, so maybe I already have seen it?

As far as I understood in the past, Reason can be oversampled. You can export at 192 kHz. So I guess it should be possible to run it internally at 192 kHz. When that goes out from Reason however, filtering and resampling would be needed first. Unless I misunderstood something?

Why I would need 192 kHz samples? The easiest example is when I take a sound sample (as short as a wave cycle), and play back with a sampler, say 2 octaves lower. At 192 kHz that note can still have frequencies up to 24 kHz. If I do the same at 44.1 kHz, the highest frequency will be only 5 kHz, which is pretty lo-fi.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be like "where can I download more ram". : ) I understand that a 96 kHz DAC won't magically handle 192 kHz sample rate audio sent to it. (Or if so, it would probably sound pitched down around one octave or something.) And I also know, that 44100 kHz for a DAC would be plenty enough.

[jam-s]

Thank you for the advice!

Well, yeah a good quality amplifier, filter and DAC is all I'm primarily looking for. I'll check those videos, though the guy looks familiar, so maybe I already have seen it?

As far as I understood in the past, Reason can be oversampled. You can export at 192 kHz. So I guess it should be possible to run it internally at 192 kHz. When that goes out from Reason however, filtering and resampling would be needed first. Unless I misunderstood something?

Why I would need 192 kHz samples? The easiest example is when I take a sound sample (as short as a wave cycle), and play back with a sampler, say 2 octaves lower. At 192 kHz that note can still have frequencies up to 24 kHz. If I do the same at 44.1 kHz, the highest frequency will be only 5 kHz, which is pretty lo-fi.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be like "where can I download more ram". : ) I understand that a 96 kHz DAC won't magically handle 192 kHz sample rate audio sent to it. (Or if so, it would probably sound pitched down around one octave or something.) And I also know, that 44100 kHz for a DAC would be plenty enough.

You're very welcome. OK, if you're talking about oversampling in the box (as in software) there the audio interface and DAC/filter of course does not play any role. Still having samples stretched that far from ultrasonics down back into audible range can give quite some interesting results when you start hearing the bat screams you accidentally recorded in your field recordings... (given you've done those at 96k+ sample rate with a suitable microphone.)
For in the box work I'd probably just use the in-built over sampling feature of a synth to get smother sounds directly instead of first sampling it and then pitching it down. But as you're not limited there by your audio interface in the first place: No need to put too much thought into this.

Also keep in mind that modern samplers don't simply reduce the number of samples played per second but rather interpolate and time-stretch the sample (even trackers in the 90s offered interpolation (like sinc) to keep the fidelity of the samples rather high (and here we're talking about 8k or 16k sample rate samples mostly to keep the file size down).

I'm glad you don't expect some code magic to turn a 96k DAC into a 192k one, as one could have gotten the impression from your OP.

[RobC]

You're very welcome. OK, if you're talking about oversampling in the box (as in software) there the audio interface and DAC/filter of course does not play any role. Still having samples stretched that far from ultrasonics down back into audible range can give quite some interesting results when you start hearing the bat screams you accidentally recorded in your field recordings... (given you've done those at 96k+ sample rate with a suitable microphone.)
For in the box work I'd probably just use the in-built over sampling feature of a synth to get smother sounds directly instead of first sampling it and then pitching it down. But as you're not limited there by your audio interface in the first place: No need to put too much thought into this.

Also keep in mind that modern samplers don't simply reduce the number of samples played per second but rather interpolate and time-stretch the sample (even trackers in the 90s offered interpolation (like sinc) to keep the fidelity of the samples rather high (and here we're talking about 8k or 16k sample rate samples mostly to keep the file size down).

I'm glad you don't expect some code magic to turn a 96k DAC into a 192k one, as one could have gotten the impression from your OP.

True, and I've once discovered a bird singing a melody, after playing the chirping back at a lower pitch (even if it was below ultra frequencies).
That said, the Rode microphone would go from 20 to 20k, so I'm not sure if I can prove any point to go above 44.1 kHz when recording (in case I buy that kit). Although in Reason, compressors seemed to have a nicer, sharper punch to them at higher sample rates. So it didn't just solve any aliasing problems. But then again, those compressor attacks sounded better even if the source sound was only 44.1 kHz. So I think it's just about, that while up-sampled, the compressor might have a bit more room to work.

I do know, that a 22 kHz sine at 44.1 kHz will be converted to the same analog sine, even if it has less points than a higher sample rate. So going by that, I don't know if there's any benefit recording a 20-20k microphone higher than 44.1 kHz.

As for the Audio Interface they made. I guess it might be good for the time being, since they match it to their own microphone. Of course, it's yet another product that's not in stock, and I have to order. x D A plus/minus is that it's plug and play. So not driver dependent. But no own ASIO either!

One worry though. When I once oversampled Reason itself, using ASIO4ALL with a USB microphone, I noticed that the compressor worked better as expected; automation was snappier - which means, it did its thing internally. The sound wasn't down-pitched whatsoever, either, so I guess the oversampling was down-sampled again before sent to the DAC. Although I didn't notice aliasing effects, I wonder if Reason or ASIO4ALL puts in a(n obviously digital) filter before sending the sound to the DAC?
A closer look at ASIO4ALL reveals that it seems to use the DACs at the "native" sample rate (which I set in Windows in my case).
Maybe playing a 96000 Hz sinewave (reason over sampled to 192 kHz; DAC running at 44.1k) will reveal the truth. If I hear nothing (so no aliasing effect), then a digital filter works somewhere. Otherwise I would have to add a good quality filter in my signal chain, at the end.
Hmm, makes me think though. The more filters ~ though small, but still extra DSP use. And even a 6 dB/O LPF set at 20 kHz alters the sound. Though maybe it's all not noticeable. Then it doesn't matter. Otherwise, an Audio Interface supporting 192 kHz, and using it's own filter is probably the best solution.

So much for me not putting too much thought into something basic... x D

I didn't forget the useful sampler synth features. Though sometimes I like to experiment with the "raw" sound. That's why those High Quality Interpolation on/off buttons are nice in Reason here and there.

Sorry, I tend to make mistakes, and get distracted, but I do my best to correct myself to clear up confusion.

Btw, future holy grails are Focusrite ISA One preamp, and ADC card. And a high end Schiit Audio DAC + Headphone amp.
Unless somebody changes my mind, I guess the Rode NT1/AI-1 Kit will be cool. If they will have it for sale to begin with...