So I jumped from Reason to Reaper... for some things

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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sonicbyte
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Location: Argentina

Post 25 Apr 2022

First things first, I love reason... I will forever use it for most of my music, for me is the most inspiring, fun and intuitive daw out there.
But, some years ago, I started composing cinematic/orchestral music (mostly done via big Kontakt libraries), and I really try to work around with all the quirks and lack of features of the current sequencer and somehow make it work for me...
It was a pain, lack of proper freezing tracks, no folders, no multi-midi channel support (so I must add one instance of Kontakt per articulation), hard to sequence complex arrangements (If I use more than 40-50 tracks is barely manageable), bad performance, it slowed my workflow a lot.

So I decided to test out Reaper for this kind of genre, just two months ago... I was mind blown:

- The speed

It opens and perform any task so fast, like nothing I have seeing before (Besides Reason I've used in the past Pro tools, Cubase, etc)

- Midi / Audio

- Of course, it supports multi-out midi channels, so it was a blast to setup my template. Now I can use lots of articulations inside of just one Kontakt instance, everything is more performant, more free memory for more instruments.
- My template has now 200+ instruments midi tracks, plus individual articulations audio outs tracks, aux tracks, etc ...in total, I have now more than 450 tracks... no issues.
- Regions and markers
- Midi editor with a layer view that allows to show / hide quick other tracks under your active view, so you can work with complex voices and arrangements more easily
- Step recording, that is so helpful for writing complicated passages and runs
- Multiple recoding midi / audio modes
- Working with audio is amazing, you can even mix different types of sample rate media files in the same track like nothing
- The amount of rendering options, just to many to describe, incredible
- The astonishing amount of options to setup your workflow, menus and toolbars as you like with "Actions"
- Dozens of included plugins (that work very nice, but have an ugly UI)

- Stability
- Rock Solid, not one crash, with all my plugins, instruments, fx, etc

- Themes
The ability to customize your theme and download skins from other users to make it look as you like is amazing.

- Video support...throw whatever, it works

- Price... I pay just $60.- for a full license that cover the next 2 major versions (and by the way, you can use Reaper as a trial forever without any feature limit).

- Updates
As I said before I've started using this software just two months ago and I already installed like 3 "point" versions, full of new features and fixes.... incredible

The downside
- I'm an experienced daw user, and the learning curve is a bit steep.
- It take time to setup to fit your needs, you have so many options to control that is a bit overwhelming
- Reason make extremely easy to setup and work lots of things, like routing, effects and stuff like that, we take those things from granted and when you switch to a daw like this it force you to think harder and re learn some things.
- Is way more technical and uninspiring working outside the Reason ecosystem.

I'm still scratching the surface of Reaper, I know I will love it even more...probably not as much as Reason, but the current lack of features and sequencer updates, and the slow pace are making it imposible for me to make this kind of music genre with it.. I still in Reason version 10 and I don't plan to ever update it again unless they seriously update the sequencer and workflow.
Is sad the current state of Reason in terms sequencer features, I really hope they improve things in future versions, I would love to back working again only in one daw.

Hope someday they listen
Thanks for reading it

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motuscott
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Location: the New York

Post 25 Apr 2022

Same.
Sometimes it hurts to dive back into Reaper detail and I just want to crank up Reason + Kuassa and pretend I'm a guitarist, but eventually the work must be done.
The Now Sound of MIDI Thru 🧂

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Billy+
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Post 25 Apr 2022

Image

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DaveyG
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Post 25 Apr 2022

Unless you count MPC 2 as a DAW, Reaper is the only DAW I've ever opened and not been able to load and play a VST synth without seeking help.
It's very powerful and configurable but that also makes it potentially more confusing and fiddly to set up. I kinda think of it as the Linux of the DAW world. It certainly has its fans but it did not click with me at all.

I do have a "Still evaluating" version installed but I can't remember the last time I fired it up.
Its great that products like Reaper exist. Disrupting the industry a little.

djsmex
Posts: 221
Joined: 23 Aug 2016

Post 25 Apr 2022

I too have been looking at Reaper after many years of using Reason. However, in my case it is because of accessibility. Reaper does have a steeper learning curve and its like learning from the ground up. That said as a blind user, Reaper with a few free scripts gives very good screen reader support but RRP doesn't have Remote, so midi mapping REs is a nightmare.
I am also writing web apps to work with Reason to help accessibility and although I agree the Reason sequencer can do with many workflow improvements, it is extending Remote to give full coverage of the Reason browser, sequencer, tool window etc that will help me make Reason accessible.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 25 Apr 2022

sonicbyte wrote:
25 Apr 2022
- Is way more technical and uninspiring working outside the Reason ecosystem.
That's why I moved in the opposite direction a few years back, after working exclusively with Reaper for over a decade.

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sonicbyte
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Location: Argentina

Post 25 Apr 2022

djsmex wrote:
25 Apr 2022
I too have been looking at Reaper after many years of using Reason. However, in my case it is because of accessibility. Reaper does have a steeper learning curve and its like learning from the ground up. That said as a blind user, Reaper with a few free scripts gives very good screen reader support but RRP doesn't have Remote, so midi mapping REs is a nightmare.
I am also writing web apps to work with Reason to help accessibility and although I agree the Reason sequencer can do with many workflow improvements, it is extending Remote to give full coverage of the Reason browser, sequencer, tool window etc that will help me make Reason accessible.
Amazing you work with accessibility, that's great !

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sonicbyte
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Post 25 Apr 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
25 Apr 2022
sonicbyte wrote:
25 Apr 2022
- Is way more technical and uninspiring working outside the Reason ecosystem.
That's why I moved in the opposite direction a few years back, after working exclusively with Reaper for over a decade.
Yeah I understand that, Reason only needs imho to give more attention to the sequencer and it could be one of the best daw and compete head to head with the rest...of course, no daw is perfect and probably it will never be, but we can get much closer than what we have now.

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raymondh
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Post 25 Apr 2022

My first attempt at Reaper turned me off straight away - it was very confusing.

Then I discovered two amazing Youtube channels: Reaper Mania and The Reaper Blog.
Both educational and inspiring.

I still find aspects of Reaper overly complicated e.g. I far prefer the Reason Tool Window over the Reaper Actions menu. I suspect there is a way to customise Reaper to get what I want but that's beyond me :)

Reason Rack Plug In works very well in Reaper. Like having the best of both worlds.

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guitfnky
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Post 25 Apr 2022

I think it helps to go into Reaper with the understanding that it will likely not be very productive straightaway. I’ve trialed it a few times and let the complexity shove me right back to Reason.

recently I decided to just send them their $60 and dig in, and it’s been eye opening. it’s capable of some truly incredible stuff. watching videos is supremely helpful to get ideas about how to get things working how you like. I specifically wanted to get a bunch of functionality I love from Ableton set up (zoom, pan, selection and playback), and managed to do that over the course of a week or so. after a couple of weeks, I felt comfortable enough that I started working on my first Reaper project, and it’s coming along quickly already.

I do miss having included effects and instruments, but having Reason, that’s a fairly minor concern. and as ugly as the Reaper plugins can be, they really do sound great so far. as for inspiration, Reason will always be the quickest way to get me to “ooh, let’s try THAT”, but I’ve been doing this long enough that for the most part, I’m never going to lack for inspiration no matter what DAW I’m using.
I write good music for good people

https://slow-robot.com/
https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 26 Apr 2022

sonicbyte wrote:
25 Apr 2022
Reason only needs imho to give more attention to the sequencer ...
I do agree that there are things that would be nice to have in Reason. One thing I do miss is having position markers for quick navigation. The really big thing I'm missing in Reason is the deep integration of my Tascam US-2400 that Reaper gave me. In Reaper it is basically like working with a real console. I'm pretty sure I can get close in Reason, but I need to hack remote for that, and I don't have the time (yet) to do that. However, for me, the gains in using Reason measure preferably against what II'm missing.
guitfnky wrote:
25 Apr 2022
it’s capable of some truly incredible stuff.
Reaper is powerful beyond anything else. You can even script stuff INSIDE Reaper (it has its own embedded development environment), and in several scripting languages no less. If you can code, you can make it literally do anything short of making coffee :puf_bigsmile: The downside of this is that you have to get seriously involved with its capabilities to reap those benefits, which is an uphill battle for many. I still have a heavily customized Reaper installation, with several scripts I wrote myself to make it do things that are SOP in Reason and frankly much easier to do in Reason as well. For example, I implemented a system similar to Reason's blocks, so even that is possible. But it doesn't come close to the ease and integration that the actual blocks in Reason give you.

djsmex
Posts: 221
Joined: 23 Aug 2016

Post 26 Apr 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
26 Apr 2022
I do agree that there are things that would be nice to have in Reason. One thing I do miss is having position markers for quick navigation. The really big thing I'm missing in Reason is the deep integration of my Tascam US-2400 that Reaper gave me. In Reaper it is basically like working with a real console. I'm pretty sure I can get close in Reason, but I need to hack remote for that, and I don't have the time (yet) to do that. However, for me, the gains in using Reason measure preferably against what II'm missing.
Please feel free to try out my ReTransport web app to work with Reason, its a work in progress but does offer ten position markers you can set and jump to.
https://www.nostex.co.uk/ReTransport/

djsmex
Posts: 221
Joined: 23 Aug 2016

Post 26 Apr 2022

sonicbyte wrote:
25 Apr 2022
Amazing you work with accessibility, that's great !
Thanks, if you'd like to take a look, I currently have two web apps as a proof of concept.
https://www.nostex.co.uk/ReDrum/
https://www.nostex.co.uk/ReTransport/

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 26 Apr 2022

djsmex wrote:
26 Apr 2022
Please feel free to try out my ReTransport web app to work with Reason, its a work in progress but does offer ten position markers you can set and jump to.
https://www.nostex.co.uk/ReTransport/
Thanks for your suggestion. I saw your discussion topic on this before, some great work you are doing there. It's not something I would use though, as I try as much as possible to stay inside my DAW (in this case obviously Reason). So far, blocks are a usable substitute for navigation, and I tend to compose inside blocks. Not as flexible as regions in Reaper, but close enough. With my Touch Portal setup, this works pretty well.

djsmex
Posts: 221
Joined: 23 Aug 2016

Post 27 Apr 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
26 Apr 2022
djsmex wrote:
26 Apr 2022
Please feel free to try out my ReTransport web app to work with Reason, its a work in progress but does offer ten position markers you can set and jump to.
https://www.nostex.co.uk/ReTransport/
Thanks for your suggestion. I saw your discussion topic on this before, some great work you are doing there. It's not something I would use though, as I try as much as possible to stay inside my DAW (in this case obviously Reason). So far, blocks are a usable substitute for navigation, and I tend to compose inside blocks. Not as flexible as regions in Reaper, but close enough. With my Touch Portal setup, this works pretty well.
Thanks, I understand, perhaps later I will look at adding MIDI mapping to the ReTransport app, so the app can remain in the background. This was one of my thoughts regarding speech feedback, which I am pleased to say, does work while Reason window has focus.
Glad to hear you have a workable method, blocks in Reason are often over looked.

EdGrip
Posts: 2232
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 30 Apr 2022

I finally gave them their $60 the other day. Decided it was about time.

So far I use it exclusively for recording audio, either from external hardware or from YouTube etc. It loads so fast I don't have to wait for it.

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zebbleganubi
Posts: 29
Joined: 15 Oct 2017

Post 02 May 2022

the thing that sold me on reaper is how fast it opens. its a fairly lightweight program to begin with but not having to deal with any bs login that has to verify your licence with some servers somewhere else in the world means it opens almost instantly.

they way they handle the licence as well is really great. when you register it just adds the licence key to a file along with all the other reaper program files, so if you move the program to another computer, or if you just want to have two instances running at the same time, the licence file is copied with everything else and you dont have to re-register again. (thats another plus as well, being able to run two reapers side by side and have completely different settings for each, one for recording and the other for mixing etc)

imagine that though. not being penalised for being a loyal paying customer. what a concept!

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avasopht
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Post 02 May 2022

Yeah, fast startup speed is so underrated.
---

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Creativemind
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Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 02 May 2022

I don't understand number 4 in your downsides. Surely the creativity comes from you? oh just realised something though, you're on Reason 10, you need to get that RRP working in Reaper, a god send.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.58 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Creativemind
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Post 02 May 2022

DaveyG wrote:
25 Apr 2022
Unless you count MPC 2 as a DAW, Reaper is the only DAW I've ever opened and not been able to load and play a VST synth without seeking help.
It's very powerful and configurable but that also makes it potentially more confusing and fiddly to set up. I kinda think of it as the Linux of the DAW world. It certainly has its fans but it did not click with me at all.

I do have a "Still evaluating" version installed but I can't remember the last time I fired it up.
Its great that products like Reaper exist. Disrupting the industry a little.
Like any new tool, you need to spend a little time learning how to use it. You go into Options, Preferences and then scroll down to the VST tab and obviously point Reaper at the VST folder where all your VST's are, you got that far right?

Then on a track, you click FX (if it's minimised just hit Page Up or drag it down from the bottom of the TCP (Track Control Panel which is the bit to the left of the arranger (sequencer) where you label the track etc) as the FX icon can sometimes be hidden if the TCP is minimized) to bring up the VST search box, then you can just simply type in the name of the VST you're looking for in the filter.

There's also subcategories down the left handside under the Filter search box for quickly finding plugs such as All, DX, DXi, VST, VSTi, VST3, VST3i etc and Recently Used which is damn handy to find a list of all recently used plug-ins and also there's (if you recently installed a new plug-in) a New category which you just click and your new plug-in is there, it's great. You can also copy and paste any chain of FX from one track to another by simple highlighting the chain with the mouse cursor, press ctrl C (Windows) and command C on Mac I presume and then open the FX on another track and Ctrl / Command V to paste.

Also, you can rescan the VST folder in preferences without having to restart the daw and I wouldn't be surprised (as Reaper is customisable to your needs in virtually every way possible) that you could create your own icon in the Tools part at the top of TCP that automatically scans the plug-in folder if you've added a new one. I set up an icon in the Tools section that automatically scans your midi controller devices if I'd already opened Reaper without turning my midi controller on. It doesn't automatically pick it up if you turn it on (one thing Reason does do better) and it saves time having an icon than going into Options, Preferences and to (I think) Midi or Midi inputs and rescanned your midi devices (obviously after first turning your midi controller on). So now I just turn on my midi controller and click the icon, voila.

Although there are 2 other steps you must do, 1) Right click the input section on the track and click Input: Midi, select your midi controller and then click All Inputs. 2) Arm for recording by pressing the red recording button on the TCP.

Sounds long winded rather than Reason is just turn your midi controller on, click a track and just play but you can set up Track Templates in Reaper and have a few of your favourite VST's all set up with your midi controller enabled and armed for recording so then you just right click in the blank space in the TCP and select Insert Track From Template? select say Sylenth and a track opens with Sylenth on it with your midi controller selected and the track armed for recording and you're good to go.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.58 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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