Mixer advice please

[raymondh]

Hi folks.

After a failed experiment to expand my Focusrite 18i8 with an ADAT expander, I am going to buy a mixer to feed multiple synths into a single input.

Would appreciate any experiences or views on these brands or models, which are within my budget; (about $400 NZD / $200-250 USD)

ALTO PROFESSIONAL ZMX122FX
BEHRINGER 1002B XENYX or QX1622USB XENYX
BEHRINGER RX1602V2 RACKMOUNT MIXER
8-CHANNEL ULTRA COMPACT MIXER
MACKIE PROFX6 V3 6 CH 2 MIC PRE PROFESSIONAL EFFECTS MIXER

Looking for line level (don't need preamps) inputs for synths only, low noise, no frills (although if onboard reverb/delay FX are good quality then that'd be nice) and good matching to my focusrite inputs (I really get confused with impedance matching, balanced/unbalanced etc).

I'm leaning towards the MACKIE 802-VLZ4 which seems to get good reviews, nobody complaining of build quality, etc.

Any advice or experiences appreciated!!

thanks!

[DaveyG]

I've had an RX1602 in use as a submixer for about 20 years (not a V2 version though - I don't know what the difference is). It has been rock solid and has seen a whole range of samplers and synths connected through it over the years. No frills and no FX but it's very compact and just works.

Given the popularity of hardware synths now I'm surprised there are not more basic line level mixers around.

[PhillipOrdonez]

If all you need is multiple ins, single out, no effects or recording, there's plenty of small, passive, cheap mixers. Look at those by ART.

[stillifegaijin]

I use a Samson SM-10 rack mixer and love it. It's $250.

[Zac]

Hi folks.

After a failed experiment to expand my Focusrite 18i8 with an ADAT expander, I am going to buy a mixer to feed multiple synths into a single input.

Would appreciate any experiences or views on these brands or models, which are within my budget; (about $400 NZD / $200-250 USD)

ALTO PROFESSIONAL ZMX122FX
BEHRINGER 1002B XENYX or QX1622USB XENYX
BEHRINGER RX1602V2 RACKMOUNT MIXER
8-CHANNEL ULTRA COMPACT MIXER
MACKIE PROFX6 V3 6 CH 2 MIC PRE PROFESSIONAL EFFECTS MIXER

Looking for line level (don't need preamps) inputs for synths only, low noise, no frills (although if onboard reverb/delay FX are good quality then that'd be nice) and good matching to my focusrite inputs (I really get confused with impedance matching, balanced/unbalanced etc).

I'm leaning towards the MACKIE 802-VLZ4 which seems to get good reviews, nobody complaining of build quality, etc.

Any advice or experiences appreciated!!

thanks!

Hi Raymond, hope you are well . I haven't used any of those specific mixers but did have a xenyx qx1002usb and it was solid with use able fx.

I have a behringer 1820 and I'm thinking of expanding it with a behringer ada8200, so I'm just wondering what went wrong for you, as it seems like an elegant solution?

[PhillipOrdonez]

I'm thinking, OP is only looking for ways to record his synths one at a time, then I guess a small patchbay would do the trick just fine? I got one from ART, no noise, cost less than 50. ‍♂️

[selig]

I would simplify things and get one decent USB mixer instead of a cheap line mixer and a USB interface. Something like the Soundcraft Notepad-12FX for around $200 USD would give you 8 line inputs (4 mono, two stereo) and the ability to send 4 channels USB both directions (plus Lexicon effects FWIW). 'There are many other options, and for a little more you can have a totally future proof mixer/interface that could allow multitrack recording and more if you're willing to swap out your focusrite interface.
For the record, I've recently become a fan of USB mixers over USB interfaces, and in addition to my original Clarett2pre I also have a Zoom L20 for my hardware synths (and live) plus a big Midas M32r LIVE for my studio microphones and interfacing to other analog gear (output pre amps/compressors/guitar amps/etc).

[raymondh]

I would simplify things and get one decent USB mixer instead of a cheap line mixer and a USB interface. Something like the Soundcraft Notepad-12FX for around $200 USD would give you 8 line inputs (4 mono, two stereo) and the ability to send 4 channels USB both directions (plus Lexicon effects FWIW). 'There are many other options, and for a little more you can have a totally future proof mixer/interface that could allow multitrack recording and more if you're willing to swap out your focusrite interface.
For the record, I've recently become a fan of USB mixers over USB interfaces, and in addition to my original Clarett2pre I also have a Zoom L20 for my hardware synths (and live) plus a big Midas M32r LIVE for my studio microphones and interfacing to other analog gear (output pre amps/compressors/guitar amps/etc).

Thanks! It might be a bit out of my range as I need 12 inputs. Thanks for the idea, I'll research my options.


thanks

[moalla]

i bought a mackie profx10 last summer and its eq and sound is really amazing for its price i also struggled to buy a allen heath zed 10 but i wanted inserst and the iphone record option of this mackie unit is still a big gem. In questions of sound most of the mixer you named are okay, but the profx10 and zed10 eq sound is a big big plus around 200bugs for a mixer. Yeah for my experience the best low cost mixer is behringer 10channel unit with 2x9v battery option, i also owned a behringer 802 wich was really okay ass summing mixer, it´s eq´s are less good,also this china mixers from musicstore are okay.

[raymondh]

i bought a mackie profx10 last summer and its eq and sound is really amazing for its price i also struggled to buy a allen heath zed 10 but i wanted inserst and the iphone record option of this mackie unit is still a big gem. In questions of sound most of the mixer you named are okay, but the profx10 and zed10 eq sound is a big big plus around 200bugs for a mixer. Yeah for my experience the best low cost mixer is behringer 10channel unit with 2x9v battery option, i also owned a behringer 802 wich was really okay ass summing mixer, it´s eq´s are less good,also this china mixers from musicstore are okay.

Cool. What is your experience with DAW latency? ASIO work well with the Mackie?

cheers

[moalla]

yeah i never tried it really with my daw but once i used as pc soundcard the latency was god around 2,6ms without dropouts at lower buffer settings it produces dropouts with 10 tracks some effects, vst synths like brainwox oberheim or re vk2 but overall in relation to over lowcost soundcards its really good especial the recordings with my iphone brings me a smile over the lips, much better than older tascam or m-audio soundcards in sound comparison, the only thing i miss is a extra bus out (instead you could use the fx send) and pfl function but therefore it has 12v dc power connection with 1A power usage that you can use it with a 12v powerbank or 5v <12v converter totaly mobile. so it would say its the most complete mobile mixer you could buy today.

[raymondh]

yeah i never tried it really with my daw but once i used as pc soundcard the latency was god around 2,6ms without dropouts at lower buffer settings it produces dropouts with 10 tracks some effects, vst synths like brainwox oberheim or re vk2 but overall in relation to over lowcost soundcards its really good especial the recordings with my iphone brings me a smile over the lips, much better than older tascam or m-audio soundcards in sound comparison, the only thing i miss is a extra bus out (instead you could use the fx send) and pfl function but therefore it has 12v dc power connection with 1A power usage that you can use it with a 12v powerbank or 5v <12v converter totaly mobile. so it would say its the most complete mobile mixer you could buy today.

Got it - thanks for the info.

[raymondh]

I'm thinking, OP is only looking for ways to record his synths one at a time, then I guess a small patchbay would do the trick just fine? I got one from ART, no noise, cost less than 50. ‍♂️

Thanks. Sometimes I record multi-track but usually I can get away with one track at a time.

[raymondh]

Hi folks.

After a failed experiment to expand my Focusrite 18i8 with an ADAT expander, I am going to buy a mixer to feed multiple synths into a single input.

Would appreciate any experiences or views on these brands or models, which are within my budget; (about $400 NZD / $200-250 USD)

ALTO PROFESSIONAL ZMX122FX
BEHRINGER 1002B XENYX or QX1622USB XENYX
BEHRINGER RX1602V2 RACKMOUNT MIXER
8-CHANNEL ULTRA COMPACT MIXER
MACKIE PROFX6 V3 6 CH 2 MIC PRE PROFESSIONAL EFFECTS MIXER

Looking for line level (don't need preamps) inputs for synths only, low noise, no frills (although if onboard reverb/delay FX are good quality then that'd be nice) and good matching to my focusrite inputs (I really get confused with impedance matching, balanced/unbalanced etc).

I'm leaning towards the MACKIE 802-VLZ4 which seems to get good reviews, nobody complaining of build quality, etc.

Any advice or experiences appreciated!!

thanks!

Hi Raymond, hope you are well . I haven't used any of those specific mixers but did have a xenyx qx1002usb and it was solid with use able fx.

I have a behringer 1820 and I'm thinking of expanding it with a behringer ada8200, so I'm just wondering what went wrong for you, as it seems like an elegant solution?

Hi Zac! Good thanks - hope you're doing great too!! Thanks for the info on what you use.

The problem I had;

When I connected the Behringer ADA8200 to the Focusrite 18i8, and then configured it correctly (8200 = master, 18i8 = slave, ADAT sync on the 18i8), initially it worked really well, with the 8 additional inputs exposed to the Scarlett Mix Control, and I was able to configure it all easily and it sounded great.
Then if I left it for a few hours, it would go a bit haywire:
- MixControl might no open/become unresponsive
- Start Reason (or Reaper) and super weird - the timing would be all off - where 1 second of playback takes 6 seconds in the piano roll, and there is no audio
- The Focusrite driver would crash, audio interface offline

When I researched the options, I'd read about 18i8 (and 18i20) flakeyness with ADAT, but those articles were from 2017, with users saying Focusrite sent them beta drivers which fixed the bugs and resolved the stability issues, and those beta drivers were merged back into the later s/w and firmware versions.

After all sorts of trial and error, uninstalling, reinstalling, problem isolation etc, no luck. After I removed the 8200, everything has returned to nice stable operation.

I really wanted this to work, it would have been perfect. I think the Behringer ADA8200 is a great product. I can't afford to upgrade my 1st gen 18i8 with the latest 3rd gen, Focusrite hasn't acknowledged my support request and I suspect they're not all that interested given the age of my interface.

My local music shop have agreed to take back the 8200 and give me a store credit which I'll use on the new solution, which is great but my options will be limited to what they stock.

Cheers

[raymondh]

I've had an RX1602 in use as a submixer for about 20 years (not a V2 version though - I don't know what the difference is). It has been rock solid and has seen a whole range of samplers and synths connected through it over the years. No frills and no FX but it's very compact and just works.

Given the popularity of hardware synths now I'm surprised there are not more basic line level mixers around.

If all you need is multiple ins, single out, no effects or recording, there's plenty of small, passive, cheap mixers. Look at those by ART.

I use a Samson SM-10 rack mixer and love it. It's $250.

Thanks guys. Will look into all of this. Cheers.

[Zac]

Hi Raymond, hope you are well . I haven't used any of those specific mixers but did have a xenyx qx1002usb and it was solid with use able fx.

I have a behringer 1820 and I'm thinking of expanding it with a behringer ada8200, so I'm just wondering what went wrong for you, as it seems like an elegant solution?

Hi Zac! Good thanks - hope you're doing great too!! Thanks for the info on what you use.

The problem I had;

When I connected the Behringer ADA8200 to the Focusrite 18i8, and then configured it correctly (8200 = master, 18i8 = slave, ADAT sync on the 18i8), initially it worked really well, with the 8 additional inputs exposed to the Scarlett Mix Control, and I was able to configure it all easily and it sounded great.
Then if I left it for a few hours, it would go a bit haywire:
- MixControl might no open/become unresponsive
- Start Reason (or Reaper) and super weird - the timing would be all off - where 1 second of playback takes 6 seconds in the piano roll, and there is no audio
- The Focusrite driver would crash, audio interface offline

When I researched the options, I'd read about 18i8 (and 18i20) flakeyness with ADAT, but those articles were from 2017, with users saying Focusrite sent them beta drivers which fixed the bugs and resolved the stability issues, and those beta drivers were merged back into the later s/w and firmware versions.

After all sorts of trial and error, uninstalling, reinstalling, problem isolation etc, no luck. After I removed the 8200, everything has returned to nice stable operation.

I really wanted this to work, it would have been perfect. I think the Behringer ADA8200 is a great product. I can't afford to upgrade my 1st gen 18i8 with the latest 3rd gen, Focusrite hasn't acknowledged my support request and I suspect they're not all that interested given the age of my interface.

My local music shop have agreed to take back the 8200 and give me a store credit which I'll use on the new solution, which is great but my options will be limited to what they stock.

Cheers

Thanks for explaining Raymond, much appreciated. Hopefully if I go that root I'll have drivers that work together better as it'll be all behringer.

I hope you get your set up working nicely whatever you choose

[raymondh]

Thanks Zac. And thanks everyone for your posts.

So I ended up getting a Mackie 1202VLZ4 mixer, and it has ticked the box for what I needed.

If I had more money to spend and choice (from the shop), I would have done what Giles / Selig suggested and replaced the audio interface with a multi-tracking mixer. That does look like a way of getting the best of all worlds.

For anyone interested:

Impressions of the Mackie 1202VLZ4:
- First the bad: the stereo balancing is a bit off. The left channel is louder than the right channel by approx 2 dB. There is a single master fader so it's not possible to raise just the right master a bit etc. I tried this with mono and stereo sources, in each channel, did all the usual troubleshooting like swapping cables, swapping L & R, trying all channels etc. Yep. Thought about taking the mixer back to the shop but did some research and found that (1) several people have reported the problem, not just with this range of mixers, but other analog mixers too, (2) Some folks say it's normal in analog electronics, e.g. resistors/capacitors with 10% tolerance can make quite a difference in the variability of channels, and it doesn't take much to be 'off centre' in a potentiometer etc - i.e. this is the nature of analog so get used to it, (3) some folks returned their mixer only to find the replacement had a similar difference in channel levels and (3) One person said after they complained, Mackie themselves wrote back to say it's normal behaviour. So... I've decided to suck it up and just make the appropriate adjustments with my Focusrite input levels.
- The good: Much lower noise and colouration than I expected. I'll be happy to record through this, rather than moving inputs directly into the Focusrite. Also nice and compact, and very well constructed.

And more generally with the approach and what I learned;
- I needed 11 inputs (assuming I don't use the multiple outs on the TR-8). I've put everything into the Mackie, leaving one mono channel free, and 6 channels free on the Focusrite, so room for future expansion
- I think in a few years if I do get a multitracking digital USB mixer, I will wait until I can afford a really good one. (1) The lower cost USB mixers are quite compromised in their DAW functionality/software, have lower quality components [understandably], and the input digital FX are limited [eg control the mix level, but not reverb/delay time etc]. Some of the so-called multi-tracking mixers will only fully multi-track to SD card, not DAW, and a bunch of other 'gotchas' in the fine print.
- I now have a drum machine + 6 synths, but I still mostly rely in the box with Reason and softsynths, so I didn't want to take any risk of a new ASIO driver that had lower latency than what I have today. Had an incentive not to throw out the Focusrite and take a risk on a new ASIO solution.
- Ran into a guy at the shop who has the Behringer ADA8200 working nicely with his Behringer Audio Interface. He's a drummer though so wasn't able to comment on the ASIO latency in respect to playing softsynths.