CLAP - Open Source Plugin Format

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Steedus
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Location: Melbourne, AU

Post 15 Jun 2022

Whoops, my bad, didn't see this was already a thread here (wasn't sure which section to post in)

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parma
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Joined: 19 Feb 2015

Post 16 Jun 2022

Reason Studios will get around to supporting it in 15-20 years. It'll be on the roadmap for 2023 though.

Jac459
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Location: Singapore

Post 16 Jun 2022

pongasoft wrote:
15 Jun 2022


As a plugin developer, I think VST3 was a good idea originally. The main problem is that Steinberg, who owns it, is one of the worst when it comes to software API and lifecycle.

First of all VST2 might have been limited but it was highly successful and simple to use. As a result thousands of plugins have been written for the VST2 format.

When Steinberg decided to switch to VST3, they essentially killed VST2 and by they way NEVER provided an easy path for developers to migrate to VST3. For example, it would have been somewhat easy for them to provide a VST3 wrapper that can run any VST2 plugin.

VST3 is huge in comparison to VST2, so much harder to get into and they keep making changes to it without community feedback (so they do whatever they want for their own purposes, not the community at large). They do not know what it means to handle the software from a programmer point of view: they change API willy-nilly, most of the time breaking code. Every time they release a new SDK, the previous one is no longer available (I have never seen any kind of software project do this!)... you can only download the "latest" SDK (to be fair the code is available on github so you can "go back" and get a previous version, but the code on github is NOT the entire SDK as the SDK contains tools that are not on github... so it's not the same).

Finally VST3 is not really open source. You can see the code, but they don't allow the community to make changes to it. And if you want to use it for a commercial product you have to get a License from Steinberg.

I would absolutely love to have a truly open source audio plugin format supported by all DAWs. The only reason I am doing VST3 right now is because it runs on most platforms. But would be more than happy to ditch it for something truly open.
I think your explanation of why we should be happy of this open source standard is crystal clear.

The life of standards adoption is very complex but clearly a well managed open source one can only be positive for us.

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DaveyG
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Post 16 Jun 2022

So are you all happy to re-purchase your existing plugins in CLAP format or do you expect the manufacturers to upgrade them for free?

Jac459
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Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 16 Jun 2022

DaveyG wrote:
16 Jun 2022
So are you all happy to re-purchase your existing plugins in CLAP format or do you expect the manufacturers to upgrade them for free?
All DAWs support various formats... It is not about having a new format for the pleasure of a new format. But if the new format is better, simpler, more open and easier for the devs, ultimately we will win. If the format doesn't bring enough advantages.... Darwin...

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jam-s
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 16 Jun 2022

Jac459 wrote:
16 Jun 2022
DaveyG wrote:
16 Jun 2022
So are you all happy to re-purchase your existing plugins in CLAP format or do you expect the manufacturers to upgrade them for free?
All DAWs support various formats... It is not about having a new format for the pleasure of a new format. But if the new format is better, simpler, more open and easier for the devs, ultimately we will win. If the format doesn't bring enough advantages.... Darwin...
Image
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

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joeyluck
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Post 16 Jun 2022

So if it's "Clever Audio Plugin" why not CAP?

Also are people going to be saying "CLAP plugins" because that would be "Clever Audio Plugin plugins".

Not the most clever name in many ways 😂

Why not just "Clever" and the file extension could be .CLVR?

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avasopht
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Post 16 Jun 2022

jam-s wrote:
16 Jun 2022
Image
The irony being, without those 14 standards, we'd have 1000000 different types of adapters ;)
---

Jac459
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Location: Singapore

Post 16 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
16 Jun 2022

The irony being, without those 14 standards, we'd have 1000000 different types of adapters ;)
Fully agree on USB C vs apple lightening ... But that's just one company. USB C is still a big upgrade versus USB B.
I am glad we moved...

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parma
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Post 17 Jun 2022

I asked Urs (u-he) about Reason Studios and CLAP and this was his response

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p8452705

Maybe someone from RS could get in touch

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SebAudio
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Joined: 08 Mar 2015

Post 17 Jun 2022

rcbuse wrote:
15 Jun 2022
I've been playing around with CLAP these past few months. The per-voice non-destructive modulation is awesome. For anyone that doesn't know what that is, that allows you to place parameter modulation outside of the device, and it works polyphonically. So you can separate your 'synth' from your modulation. A synth developer can concentrate on the sound engine and not have to re-write a lfo/envelope/modulation matrix on each device. Devices become much more compact and your modulation choices become unlimited. A new envelope or LFO gets created with each note on. There is also per-note expressions, which is in VST3 and also supported by MPE, but I think CLAP takes it further.

There is also a pending extension for "CV" ins and outs for devices.

BitwigModulation2.jpg
I’ve been running « simple synth + external modulation » within Live with M4L. I’ve found it (boring regarding workflow and « synth love » and) makes your sound harder to save and share because it’s so dépendant of the daw. And it can be overwhelming having to choose among endless modulators. Well, I think that a synth is better if designed to be « completed » from its creator (even if it’s longer to develop). You love it or not. But having the possibility to « complete » it with external modulators is great. And it’s the reason Reason is so great since 22 years !

EdGrip
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Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 17 Jun 2022

I think CLAP is not the best name - although one syllable Vs 4 is good - but I'm all for open source and all for bringing new formats that might help devs to help users.
We can think about whether we re-buy plugins etc later. Don't worry about it. Just see what happens.
(People's favourite DAWs and plugin companies will have to support the format before we need even to think about such things.)

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Timmy Crowne
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Location: California, United States

Post 17 Jun 2022

The name is a bit awkward, but I’m very impressed with the capability. Watched this video yesterday of u-He’s Hive being run in Bitwig. The guy puts a bunch of external LFOs in the rack and they all modulate Hive *per-voice*.



Imagine if our Europa had unlimited CV inputs and they weren’t global. That’s a different level of architecture.

Mattvank
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Joined: 30 Mar 2017

Post 19 Jun 2022

I really recommend to give it a try and compare.

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Kilsane
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Location: Villeneuve saint Georges - France

Post 21 Jun 2022

the list of developers and publishers who are interested in it is growing

https://u-he.com/community/clap/
Reason is the richest DAW, between VST and its own format (Rack Extension) which DAW can boast of having so many tools for creativity

My config
https://fr.audiofanzine.com/membres/1097104/products/

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huggermugger
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Joined: 16 Jul 2021

Post 24 Jun 2022

AudioThing ain't afraid of the clap...
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bxbrkrz
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Post 24 Jun 2022

Is there a list of Daw using the protocol already?
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

Jac459
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Location: Singapore

Post 24 Jun 2022

Awesome !

Popey
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Joined: 04 Jul 2018

Post 24 Jun 2022

bxbrkrz wrote:
24 Jun 2022
Is there a list of Daw using the protocol already?
There is a database here

https://clapdb.tech/

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joeyluck
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Post 24 Jun 2022

Robotic Bean has some clap plugins. And 99Sounds has a free clap plugin.👏🤭

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bxbrkrz
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Post 24 Jun 2022

Popey wrote:
24 Jun 2022
bxbrkrz wrote:
24 Jun 2022
Is there a list of Daw using the protocol already?
There is a database here

https://clapdb.tech/
;) :thumbs_up:
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

josb
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Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 01 Jul 2022

I emailed support about this and they said they'd pass it on to Engineering. I'm not holding my breath. :-)
Last edited by josb on 04 Jul 2022, edited 1 time in total.

josb
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Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 02 Jul 2022

( I made the mistake of posting about CLAP in the Feature Requests forum, sorry about that.)

DJMaytag
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Joined: 17 Jun 2015
Location: Madison, WI

Post Yesterday

DaveyG wrote:
15 Jun 2022
The problem might be that you, and every other DEV, end up having to do CLAP in addition to VST3 rathe than instead of it.
Is anyone else really annoyed enough to have to select which of like 5 different plugins you have to install/upgrade when installing a plugin? What's one more to that list!?!?

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pongasoft
RE Developer
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Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Location: Las Vegas

Post Yesterday

DJMaytag wrote:
Yesterday
Is anyone else really annoyed enough to have to select which of like 5 different plugins you have to install/upgrade when installing a plugin? What's one more to that list!?!?
The hope is that this new standard becomes so popular that it eclipses the others and then it's the others that get booted out of the list...

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