CLAP - Open Source Plugin Format

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Despondo
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Post 05 Jan 2022

Not sure if anyone has heard of this, but there is an alternative open source plugin format being developed and supported by the likes of U-He, Bitwig and others. Just mentioning it here so others can keep an eye on its development.

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... 1&t=574861

https://github.com/free-audio/clap

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Loque
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Post 05 Jan 2022

Yea, lets reinvent the wheel. We can make it rounder than others...

One thing that is missing and is obviously the biggest drawback, that if a dev does not update or recompile its plugins, you are doomed. So many interesting VSTs out there, still at 32bit or never got updated to any newer OS...
Reason12, Win10

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selig
RE Developer
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 05 Jan 2022

Loque wrote:
05 Jan 2022
Yea, lets reinvent the wheel. We can make it rounder than others...

One thing that is missing and is obviously the biggest drawback, that if a dev does not update or recompile its plugins, you are doomed. So many interesting VSTs out there, still at 32bit or never got updated to any newer OS...
I don't see this as reinventing the wheel, more like opening another wheel factory that offers different options.
IMO Reason Studios didn't re-invent the wheel either with REs, nor did Apple with AU.
Even VST followed Pro Tools with a second plugin format a good 4-5 years later (Waves Q-10 was released around 1992, Pro Tools in 1991), and I would say it's good to have options - especially open source (like MIDI).
Selig Audio, LLC

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orthodox
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Post 05 Jan 2022

Loque wrote:
05 Jan 2022
One thing that is missing and is obviously the biggest drawback, that if a dev does not update or recompile its plugins, you are doomed. So many interesting VSTs out there, still at 32bit or never got updated to any newer OS...
If the mentioned plugins were open-source, anybody could raise the fallen banner and go on with the development.

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Loque
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Post 05 Jan 2022

orthodox wrote:
05 Jan 2022
Loque wrote:
05 Jan 2022
One thing that is missing and is obviously the biggest drawback, that if a dev does not update or recompile its plugins, you are doomed. So many interesting VSTs out there, still at 32bit or never got updated to any newer OS...
If the mentioned plugins were open-source, anybody could raise the fallen banner and go on with the development.
Hum...yea...if someone is willing to do it.

I just checked my VCV account and there is a big bunch of racks which never got updated. Good, that i mainly use the core stuff if possible. Maybe someone will port the racks sometime in the future...yea...if they are OOS of course ;-)
Reason12, Win10

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bxbrkrz
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Post 05 Jan 2022

In the original link in the thread I read:

"Cubase/Steinberg may indeed be the hardest sell, but they also are a huge part of why an open modern standard is needed that isn't tied to a company that is pushing it's ideas down developers throats.
The story of VST3 was a complete disaster and the behaviour of Steinberg in that regard a real eye opener for many devs I think."


What's the problem with VST3, from a dev's experience?
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

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integerpoet
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Location: East Bay, California

Post 05 Jan 2022

selig wrote:
05 Jan 2022
I don't see this as reinventing the wheel, more like opening another wheel factory that offers different options.
IMO Reason Studios didn't re-invent the wheel either with REs, nor did Apple with AU.
Even VST followed Pro Tools with a second plugin format a good 4-5 years later (Waves Q-10 was released around 1992, Pro Tools in 1991), and I would say it's good to have options - especially open source (like MIDI).
Image

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jam-s
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 05 Jan 2022

bxbrkrz wrote:
05 Jan 2022
In the original link in the thread I read:

"Cubase/Steinberg may indeed be the hardest sell, but they also are a huge part of why an open modern standard is needed that isn't tied to a company that is pushing it's ideas down developers throats.
The story of VST3 was a complete disaster and the behaviour of Steinberg in that regard a real eye opener for many devs I think."


What's the problem with VST3, from a dev's experience?
From what I've picked up: A much too complicated (blown out of proportion) mandatory to implement API in comparison to VST2.4 and no real benefit in return. (https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=284062)
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

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DaveyG
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Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 06 Jan 2022

I think it probably won't catch on without the support of at least one of the big players but maybe we should start the campaign to get it added to Reason now so we have a chance for it to be added in five or ten years from now.

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avasopht
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Post 06 Jan 2022

integerpoet wrote:
05 Jan 2022
selig wrote:
05 Jan 2022
I don't see this as reinventing the wheel, more like opening another wheel factory that offers different options.
IMO Reason Studios didn't re-invent the wheel either with REs, nor did Apple with AU.
Even VST followed Pro Tools with a second plugin format a good 4-5 years later (Waves Q-10 was released around 1992, Pro Tools in 1991), and I would say it's good to have options - especially open source (like MIDI).
Image
false equivalence

with that thinking we wouldn't have had Java or python, or JavaScript, or Google Chrome, or Linux ... or Reason because other stuff existed before to meet needs
---

VariableX
Posts: 555
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

Post 06 Jan 2022

Loque wrote:
05 Jan 2022
Yea, lets reinvent the wheel. We can make it rounder than others...

One thing that is missing and is obviously the biggest drawback, that if a dev does not update or recompile its plugins, you are doomed. So many interesting VSTs out there, still at 32bit or never got updated to any newer OS...
some wheels are better than others - just saying 😀

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 9766
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 06 Jan 2022

avasopht wrote:
06 Jan 2022
integerpoet wrote:
05 Jan 2022

Image
false equivalence

with that thinking we wouldn't have had Java or python, or JavaScript, or Google Chrome, or Linux ... or Reason because other stuff existed before to meet needs
PLUS, we know it’s possible to do so, look at MIDI as the best example in our industry.
Selig Audio, LLC

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bxbrkrz
Posts: 2740
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 06 Jan 2022

jam-s wrote:
05 Jan 2022
bxbrkrz wrote:
05 Jan 2022
In the original link in the thread I read:

"Cubase/Steinberg may indeed be the hardest sell, but they also are a huge part of why an open modern standard is needed that isn't tied to a company that is pushing it's ideas down developers throats.
The story of VST3 was a complete disaster and the behaviour of Steinberg in that regard a real eye opener for many devs I think."


What's the problem with VST3, from a dev's experience?
From what I've picked up: A much too complicated (blown out of proportion) mandatory to implement API in comparison to VST2.4 and no real benefit in return. (https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=284062)
I see.
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

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willy_dinglefinger
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Joined: 18 Jun 2020
Location: Scotland

Post 07 Jan 2022

I'm not a programmer at all so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why not just push and develop the LV2 plug standard instead of creating a new one?

I asked this on the Renoise forum a couple weeks ago but the only response was akin to 'because lv2 is not good.' Surely there's more to it though?
Hypernormalise forum signatures :reason:

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integerpoet
Posts: 425
Joined: 30 Dec 2020
Location: East Bay, California

Post 07 Jan 2022

avasopht wrote:
06 Jan 2022
integerpoet wrote:
05 Jan 2022
(a comic)
false equivalence
(sigh) No, comedy. It's about the hubris of imagining a new standard will conquer all the others by means of its towering superiority and create world peace. It's a little like hitting the Submit button in a web forum argument. No, there will be no satisfying triumph. But I'm not arguing they shouldn't do what they propose.
with that thinking we wouldn't have had Java or python, or JavaScript, or Google Chrome, or Linux ... or Reason because other stuff existed before to meet needs
false equivalence

Bwa ha ha! It's funny because now I'm serious! :-) Those are products, not standards. If you had set up an argument involving something like JVM vs LLVM or Java vs Kotlin or V8 vs Spider Monkey (or or or or), we'd have something to scrap about, but only 1% of the audience would have any idea what we were saying. :-)

But really, let's not argue. I was just posting a funny comic. I have zero interest in debating whether to launch a new standard. Those wheels turn much more bigly than mine.

If it helps, I actually thought the originators showed some insight. I just think they're up against a lot of inertia and I'm glad I lack their passion for the problem space because they're signing up for a long slog.

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