Logic Pro 10.7

[QVprod]

Before people get impressed and excited... this is a really long list of bug fixes. Not new features. There's a few new things, but that's not most of the list.

even if you set aside the bugs, it’s still a hell of a lot more than we’ve gotten in Reason in any single update.

one could rightly make the argument that lots of this stuff isn’t particularly impressive (e.g. nobody will be salivating over the count in time signature), but the flip side of that argument is—they’re already largely feature-complete, especially compared to Reason. good problem to have.

I see a different flip side. Prior to Reason 12, there wasn't enough bug fixes needed to make a list this long. I think Studio One's bug fix lists aren't this long either. All in all, the biggest feature of this release is the surround mixing, which by all means is dope, but to say this long list in particular is feature rich is a bit of a stretch.

It's also a point update, Quincy. People should be impressed and excited. It's a POINT update for chrissakes!.

You know damn well a "point update" in Logic is basically the same thing as a complete new version in any other DAW. We've been on Logic 10 for almost a decade. That's like saying Monterey is a "point update" over Big Sur.

[QVprod]

Before people get impressed and excited... this is a really long list of bug fixes. Not new features. There's a few new things, but that's not most of the list.

To be fair, the OP doesn't list the more advertised headline features. Spatial audio is the main focus of this release.

- Mixer now supports spatial audio tools for Dolby Atmos:

• Expanded pan controls.
• 13 plug-ins expanded for 7.1.2 channels.
• Export Dolby Atmos ADM BWF file ready for Apple Music.

- More than 2800 new loops in a variety of genres and from some of the world’s top producers.
- Optimized for Apple silicon on new MacBook Pro models.
- More than 230 new instrument and audio patches.
- 50 vintage and modern drum kits, including a collection of 808 samples.

And I would argue there are more than "a few" new features listed alongside the bug fixes, especially for the step sequencer. They're mostly incremental improvements to existing features, which is a good thing imo.

I'm aware of the other features you mention. But the long list in the OP is what people are referring to as being so much for a "point update" The Dolby Atmos feature is pretty nice though.

[Pepin]

But it's not really just a typical point update, is it?

Logic 10 came out 8 years ago. So while it's still called 10.xyz, it's major version just doesn't progress like other DAWs.

Logic doesn't have the need for regular commercial releases. They're owned by a trillion dollar company with more liquid assets that most of the richest companies have on paper.

So sure, logic has only had "point" updates for the last 8 years.

Point update doesn't really have the same meaning when it's a completely different release cycle (which this clearly is).

These threads are kinda silly. Seems to just be for the sake of being antagonistic.

If you prefer Logic, go and use it. If you're not then you don't really believe this actually matters otherwise you'd be using logic only and not Reason.

So what is it?

Yeah, I agree it's disingenuous to call this a point release as it's clearly larger scale than that.

But it's also not really comparable to a typical major release from other software, because it doesn't have as many flashy features designed to convince large swathes of existing users to spend more money (at least not directly on Logic).

I wish RS could focus more on incremental refinements and fixes like this, but I'm not sure market realities support that approach for anyone except Apple.

[guitfnky]

even if you set aside the bugs, it’s still a hell of a lot more than we’ve gotten in Reason in any single update.

one could rightly make the argument that lots of this stuff isn’t particularly impressive (e.g. nobody will be salivating over the count in time signature), but the flip side of that argument is—they’re already largely feature-complete, especially compared to Reason. good problem to have.

I see a different flip side. Prior to Reason 12, there wasn't enough bug fixes needed to make a list this long. I think Studio One's bug fix lists aren't this long either. All in all, the biggest feature of this release is the surround mixing, which by all means is dope, but to say this long list in particular is feature rich is a bit of a stretch.

feature rich for Logic users? no, probably not. feature rich compared to Reason? f*ck yes.

we got RRP, some devices and 7 features in 11. we got literally four new features in 12, and 2 of them are devices. the comparison isn’t even close.

as for the amount of bugs needing to be squashed in Reason, well, times, they are a-changing’, because 12 is without a doubt the buggiest Reason release in a very long time (ever?—only been using since v5). stability used to be a huge feature of Reason, and it seems they’ve deprecated that in 12.

[hurricane]

You know damn well a "point update" in Logic is basically the same thing as a complete new version in any other DAW. We've been on Logic 10 for almost a decade. That's like saying Monterey is a "point update" over Big Sur.

It would be like R13 + R14 + R15 for Reason Studios, and yeah, I can see where you're coming from, however if this was Logic 11, us Logic users would be like 'WTF, THAT'S IT??? ".

[QVprod]

I see a different flip side. Prior to Reason 12, there wasn't enough bug fixes needed to make a list this long. I think Studio One's bug fix lists aren't this long either. All in all, the biggest feature of this release is the surround mixing, which by all means is dope, but to say this long list in particular is feature rich is a bit of a stretch.

feature rich for Logic users? no, probably not. feature rich compared to Reason? f*ck yes.

we got RRP, some devices and 7 features in 11. we got literally four new features in 12, and 2 of them are devices. the comparison isn’t even close.

as for the amount of bugs needing to be squashed in Reason, well, times, they are a-changing’, because 12 is without a doubt the buggiest Reason release in a very long time (ever?—only been using since v5). stability used to be a huge feature of Reason, and it seems they’ve deprecated that in 12.

Eh, I think that depends. Granted I have bias as a keyboard player, but step sequencers mean nothing to me. New loops and samples is ok. Surround mixing on headphones is a game changer far as stock functionality goes. That's only really 3 features though when you eliminate fixes.

[tanni]

I'm a Windows PC user. I had today customized a new MacBook on the apple homepage shop (not really buyed ) , nearly with the same specs as my actual studio PC. My PC cost about 2000 Euros. This apple thing about 4000 Euros. So, it's known, that apple always earn the money with the hardware. It's a thing called mixed calculation .
And if I see right, does the new MacBooks have unexchangeable battery ? Oh, please, a 4000 Euro-machine, really ?
So, I think I would be never a lucky Logic user .

[avasopht]

feature rich for Logic users? no, probably not. feature rich compared to Reason? f*ck yes.

we got RRP, some devices and 7 features in 11. we got literally four new features in 12, and 2 of them are devices. the comparison isn’t even close.

as for the amount of bugs needing to be squashed in Reason, well, times, they are a-changing’, because 12 is without a doubt the buggiest Reason release in a very long time (ever?—only been using since v5). stability used to be a huge feature of Reason, and it seems they’ve deprecated that in 12.

High-res support is a bit of an undertaking (mainly because it required lots of other code to be rewritten). As is Combinator 2 (with its WYSIWYG editor and all). It's why I find feature counts useless. One feature can be 10x more complex than another. And sometimes a product needs an overhaul of a feature.

From the outside, it might look like little has changed - but those are the changes that have to happen and they make way for more features in the future.

This is just the real nature of long-running software products. Some releases have to include some housekeeping. Without that housekeeping, you will get more buggy releases or fewer features per release. That being said, it doesn't help that some RS devices are no longer a part of Reason. This means that each Reason release receives fewer new features (as a new device is a feature). It's not comparable to Refills as they involve development resources.

Also, Reason is just a different type of application. What you would tackle in Logic with one of its advanced timeline editing features might be addressed in Reason with a rack device, combi patch or a player.

There's no cross-fade feature in the mixer, but there are cross-fade combinators. There's no Dolby virtual surround feature in Reason, but there is a Virtual Surround Rack Extension.

R12 is the most buggy release of any notable software products I've ever seen. As far as I'm concerned R12 really comes out in 2022 But once those bugs are ironed out, I'm looking forward to using it (I'm not using it until then).

[tronam]

These 30 page laundry list Logic Pro point updates are nothing new. They do it throughout the year, every year. Much of it will be bug fixes and small tweaks, but there are always a variety of new features large and small sprinkled throughout. I’m just glad to see it getting steady, regular attention. You never know sometimes with big corps and large software applications like this which aren’t really the lifeblood of the company.

[avasopht]

These 30 page laundry list Logic Pro point updates are nothing new. They do it throughout the year, every year. Much of it will be bug fixes and small tweaks, but there are always a variety of new features large and small sprinkled throughout. I’m just glad to see it getting steady, regular attention. You never know sometimes with big corps and large software applications like this which aren’t really the lifeblood of the company.

Unless they've laid off the team or moved them to some other application, that's just not going to happen. Programmers don't twiddle thumbs.

When companies want to take attention away from application development, they take programmers off of the product.

[guitfnky]

feature rich for Logic users? no, probably not. feature rich compared to Reason? f*ck yes.

we got RRP, some devices and 7 features in 11. we got literally four new features in 12, and 2 of them are devices. the comparison isn’t even close.

as for the amount of bugs needing to be squashed in Reason, well, times, they are a-changing’, because 12 is without a doubt the buggiest Reason release in a very long time (ever?—only been using since v5). stability used to be a huge feature of Reason, and it seems they’ve deprecated that in 12.

Eh, I think that depends. Granted I have bias as a keyboard player, but step sequencers mean nothing to me. New loops and samples is ok. Surround mixing on headphones is a game changer far as stock functionality goes. That's only really 3 features though when you eliminate fixes.

there are way more than three features. the first eight are right at the top. there are lots more throughout.

[joeyluck]

Yeah Logic seems to only consider certain things as "features". The rest sprinkled throughout amongst fixes they consider enhancements. But yeah if they were in Reason, they would be considered features.

[miscend]

So how much is this update or is it free as it's a point update?

That is one hell of an impressive feature list too. Only read half it was that vast and the last update was only 3 months ago too, but that was 10.6.3, not .6 so don't know how long that was ago lol!

In 2023 it'll be 30 years since Notator Logic was released, I wonder if they'll stretch the 10 point updates out till then, then release Logic Pro 11 at the same time as their 30th anniversary?

Ever since Logic Pro X released 8 years ago all point updates have been free. Pretty good value for $199 considering I paid nearly $1200 for Logic Audio Platinum 15 years ago. Fun fact, the founder/CEO of Emagic, Gerhard Lengeling, still runs the Logic team at Apple along with their whole pro audio division. A 30 year anniversary would be cool to see and maybe he'll retire then. Then again, maybe he's still having fun.

It's not good value. Logic 10.7 only runs on Big Sur and Monterey. If you had a Mac when Logic X released in 2013 it cant run the current version of Logic. It won't support Monterey and likely doesn't even support Big Sur. In the 8 years since Logic released you probably would've upgraded your Mac at least once.

[joeyluck]

Big Sur is supported on MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, and Mac Pro going back to 2013.

[QVprod]

Eh, I think that depends. Granted I have bias as a keyboard player, but step sequencers mean nothing to me. New loops and samples is ok. Surround mixing on headphones is a game changer far as stock functionality goes. That's only really 3 features though when you eliminate fixes.

there are way more than three features. the first eight are right at the top. there are lots more throughout.

Totally semantics if we’re considering things like the count-in following the time signature (as it should) a feature.

[miscend]

Big Sur is supported on MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, and Mac Pro going back to 2013.

The early 2013 MBP is not supported by Big Sur. And for iMacs and Mac Minis its 2014 models or later. The point is that most people purchasing Logic X in 2013 would have had earlier models. And they've since paid for Logic's continued development when they later upgraded their computer.

[guitfnky]

there are way more than three features. the first eight are right at the top. there are lots more throughout.

Totally semantics if we’re considering things like the count-in following the time signature (as it should) a feature.

or curved automation? I mean, if we’re talking small stuff that ought to be there, the argument goes even more lopsided against Reason.

[avasopht]

Logic is a solid DAW. And it's got a kick ass sound library and top notch effects.

The same can be said about Reaper and Studio One.

And yet ....... here you are.

Funny how that works out.

[guitfnky]

Logic is a solid DAW. And it's got a kick ass sound library and top notch effects.

The same can be said about Reaper and Studio One.

And yet ....... here you are.

Funny how that works out.

yes, because I love Reason and want to see its DAW, with so much potential, finally grow up.

in the meantime, I’ll continue to use RRP, and post my concerns here, where I’m comfortable knowing RS will see (some/most of) them.

[moneykube]

biggest draw back in my opinion is the update requires big sur ... sooo many plugin companies have not even caught up to Catalina yet... today apple announced another new os... so again all companies have to revise their plugins to be compatible... I own logic... I find it a bit illogical the way things are laid out but like the video support aspect... I do have a machine here running big sur without all my extra VST plugins , so I will likely try this surround sound feature eventually... is reason compatible with big sur yet?

[tronam]

... sooo many plugin companies have not even caught up to Catalina yet... today apple announced another new os... so again all companies have to revise their plugins to be compatible...

Really? That's surprising to me. I have over 380 AU/VST plugins and haven't encountered any performance or compatibility issues with them in Big Sur. M1 is its own can of worms, but my Intel iMac has been smooth and reliable ever since upgrading 4 months ago.

[avasopht]

yes, because I love Reason and want to see its DAW, with so much potential, finally grow up.

in the meantime, I’ll continue to use RRP, and post my concerns here, where I’m comfortable knowing RS will see (some/most of) them.

Reason needs to decide which master it serves. It's got some good stuff for mixing and composition, but sometimes it feels a little half-cocked.

Is it supposed to be our go-to tool for mixing? Or as a kick-ass insert via RRP?

I'm of two minds.

In an ideal world, it would have a little tab for a mixing view (or something), a tab for experimenting and building up your track in blocks, a tab for a timeline arranger, and one more tab for ... wait for it ... sound frikkin design.

This is how Live, FLStudio, Muzys (predecessor of MuLab), Bitwig and Maschine work. It's great for workflow.

The sound design tab could facilitate patch building, or streamline the process of generating samples from your synths that could then be fed into traditional samplers, Grain, Mimic or Europa. It could resemble the sample section of NNXT, but instead of loading samples, you load source combinator patches that supply a sample. There could be another combinator patch that controls how those sounds are modulated. Then you press a button that spits out samples that can drive Europa or some yet-to-be-created synth.

One thing we often forget is that Reason and the other DAWs listed above are much more geared towards "creative" music-making with the distinction being a departure from pure timeline based projects. While the others have dedicated tabs for blocks/patterns/sequencers, Reason had Matrix and ReDrum's patterns.

Now Reason has blocks and players, but I don't find them has as smooth as the others; though it is a comfortable workflow for me.

Reason has always been a joy to mix in - especially when they brought in MClass, but the SSL and REs changed our expectations and maybe even the features we wanted most.

Judging by the last 10 years, unless the switch to Agile dramatically accelerates the rate of feature development, there's going to have to be a hard decision about what sort of features/needs they focus on at the expense of the rest.

Do we want new devices? New creative composition modes? Players? Development of the RE platform? Assimilation as a regular DAW?

[dezma]

I'm a Windows PC user. I had today customized a new MacBook on the apple homepage shop (not really buyed ) , nearly with the same specs as my actual studio PC. My PC cost about 2000 Euros. This apple thing about 4000 Euros. So, it's known, that apple always earn the money with the hardware. It's a thing called mixed calculation .
And if I see right, does the new MacBooks have unexchangeable battery ? Oh, please, a 4000 Euro-machine, really ?
So, I think I would be never a lucky Logic user .

That's exactly my thoughts.. they don't need logic to be profitable, their hardware (over)pricing makes up for it. And for producing the better the cpu, the more synths you can use without bouncing and more ram and bigger SSD means more storage for sample libraries. So typically you wouldn't end up with the cheapest machine. And I suspect them to make a little profit in the ram/ssd/... upgrades

[moneykube]

... sooo many plugin companies have not even caught up to Catalina yet... today apple announced another new os... so again all companies have to revise their plugins to be compatible...

Really? That's surprising to me. I have over 380 AU/VST plugins and haven't encountered any performance or compatibility issues with them in Big Sur. M1 is its own can of worms, but my Intel iMac has been smooth and reliable ever since upgrading 4 months ago.

yep ... the m1 chip is indeed it's own can of worms and I wonder how hard the chip shortage will affect production of their own chip... As for plugins... I get many emails for plugs on sale. Quite often they say they are not Catalina compliant when I go to the specs... some say it in the emails themselves... so reason is working well with big sur for you?

[QVprod]

Really? That's surprising to me. I have over 380 AU/VST plugins and haven't encountered any performance or compatibility issues with them in Big Sur. M1 is its own can of worms, but my Intel iMac has been smooth and reliable ever since upgrading 4 months ago.

yep ... the m1 chip is indeed it's own can of worms and I wonder how hard the chip shortage will affect production of their own chip... As for plugins... I get many emails for plugs on sale. Quite often they say they are not Catalina compliant when I go to the specs... some say it in the emails themselves... so reason is working well with big sur for you?

For things to still not be compatible with Catalina at this point shows me they’re not concerned about making it compatible. It’s been 2 years 2 operating systems later. That said, I had issues with Catalina that I don’t have with Big Sur. Who knows maybe some things will just work.