Moving to Reaper from Reason

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
pepe444
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28 Jul 2021

I use Reaper for about 10 years now, its a great DAW with such a great community. Everyone is really into it. That's part of how fast Reaper has been growing so much.
One thing that you will find doing a lot is customization. I got really fed up with that. Moved to Cubase and i still use Reason Standalone and plugin mode.
Reaper is great no doubt! Incredible. Things like the actions list makes everything possible.
It lacks some nice sampler and virtual instruments imo but editing wise, there is nothing coming close to Reaper.
Script from community members are starting to being payed ....which can go into a deep vortex with that...imo again.

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mcatalao
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29 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
28 Jul 2021

that’s a good point, but keep in mind, a significant chunk of even the base install for Reason has to consist of assets for all the stock devices. possibly even some sound files (don’t the drum machines include their samples outside of the FSB?)

but more importantly, to your point, it doesn’t really matter how big the install is OR how “complex” the program is (that’s such a vague statement anyway, you could give it to different people and they could come up with different, perfectly valid answers). laughing a smaller program size away as if it means updating the code is inherently more simple is itself kind of silly.
Yes for some assets, but if you consider the current state of stock drum machines, if I'm thinking correctly we're still bound to Redrum and Kong. Kong uses various types of files, all come inside the refillls. It also has 2 sound processors, one purely synthetic, another I don't really know how it works as it is an analogue emulation of a drum kit that might use some hybrid form of sampling. Suffice to say, It's really not that of a big deal. Redrum is a pure sampler drum machine. Its sounds are on the refill. Same for NN-XT, NN-19 and the rest of the devices are synths and effects. Those need no audio, as everything (should be) is generative. But you can see for the pure sheer size of the refills.

The only device I can think has embedded audio assets out of the refills, is ID8. Id8 is a Rompler, it's a completely static device since Record come along, and you don't even browse from refills as happens with all the other devices.

Anyway, about the graphic assets, they are getting bigger. Not only on the Rack extensions as in reason stock devices. After the upgrade of my Re's, I got a 5 GB increase in disk usage in my Re Folder. The installation seems to keep the old assets and adds the newer assets. Reason "knows" what assets to load if the Re was not upgraded, and if you need to keep an older version of reason without HD, there are no broken Re's in the previous version. I'd say an R12 installation tolls about 1 GB more than before, but TBH, I haven't checked this up.

Finally, imho, project size and complexity are really not related, depends what you embed on code or don't, what you have as assets on the installation and so on. But even thinking about the base refills, since reason depends so much on them (it simply doesn't run if you remove them), they are an asset of the application. That makes reason, at the moment, a 5+ GB installation, period. On all fairness, with a lot more to give at front than Reaper, but nonetheless not optional.
That being said, the inherent differences of the two daws (the rack, reason's device dependency, etc.), make them not comparable, imho.

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EnochLight
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29 Jul 2021

DaveyG wrote:
28 Jul 2021
I kinda wanted to like Reaper but the fact is that it's the DAW that I've spent more time googling stuff for than any other.

Example:
How do you get back to the instrument plugin that is on a track?
Answer: Click the "FX" button.

That's just crap UI design. It's an instrument not an FX. You can learn this stuff but you shouldn't have to.
^^ THIS ^^

This so much. Seeing people defend Reaper’s convoluted workflow with “you just have to learn it” seems to ignore the fact that literally every other DAW on the market is more conducive to nurturing music production. But I suppose I’ve beaten this dead horse enough. Reaper fans are just as stubborn as us Reason fans. :lol:
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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mcatalao
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29 Jul 2021

EnochLight wrote:
29 Jul 2021
(...)
This so much. Seeing people defend Reaper’s convoluted workflow with “you just have to learn it” seems to ignore the fact that literally every other DAW on the market is more conducive to nurturing music production. But I suppose I’ve beaten this dead horse enough. Reaper fans are just as stubborn as us Reason fans. :lol:
Good point on the stubborness.

But that's why, in the search of a DAW that has the stuff i need that reason doesn't and is as much as possible user-friendly and I don't have to lose 10 hours googling stuff, I end up getting Cubase 11 pro in a crossgrade plus 40% discount. The fact cubase was my daw for so much time before reason went full daw (when record came along) helps a bit, but from Cubase 4 to nowadays, the application evolved A LOT. But the difference is, my previous experience and some more logical ways of doing stuff compared help me adapt a bit.

BTW, I'm really digging retrospective recording, I'd really like to have that in Reason. Such an inspiration savior! :)

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guitfnky
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29 Jul 2021

Reaper isn’t for everyone (including me), but it’s weird to see people suggest that the depth of its workflow is indefensible. having to learn complicated software isn’t a downside in and of itself. it’s the cost of getting the end result you want. if you’re primarily interested in speed of creativity, I think that’s a pretty good reason to not look at Reaper. but if you’re interested in speed within the DAW workflow, Reaper is probably worth a hard look, as long as you understand that it’s going to take some time to get it set up the way you want. investing time upfront to customize things for how you think you’ll be able to work fastest is a pretty powerful incentive to learn.
I write good music for good people

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pepe444
Posts: 89
Joined: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Portugal

30 Jul 2021

i´ll admit that in the past 10 years i have learned a lot just by using Reaper DAW and the Reaper forum. The community is amazing, many good programmers around.
If you learn reaper well, you´ll be fine with any DAW in the world xD eheheh!

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EnochLight
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31 Jul 2021

mcatalao wrote:
29 Jul 2021
BTW, I'm really digging retrospective recording, I'd really like to have that in Reason. Such an inspiration savior! :)
I’ve got this on my Akai MPC Live II as well - absolutely agree it’s an awesome inspiration savior! Really wish Reason had this.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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raymondh
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01 Aug 2021

Just working on an older Reason project with DSP overload with about half the devices I can run using Reaper+RRP.

How can Reaper DAW be so much more efficient, especially with Reason's own RRP devices and rack extensions?

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jam-s
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01 Aug 2021

raymondh wrote:
01 Aug 2021
How can Reaper DAW be so much more efficient, especially with Reason's own RRP devices and rack extensions?
My guess: Reaper is using a much larger buffer and does dynamic pre rendering on non-live-tracks.
Last edited by jam-s on 01 Aug 2021, edited 2 times in total.

avasopht
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01 Aug 2021

raymondh wrote:
01 Aug 2021
Just working on an older Reason project with DSP overload with about half the devices I can run using Reaper+RRP.

How can Reaper DAW be so much more efficient, especially with Reason's own RRP devices and rack extensions?
DAWs don't "run" plugins.

As jam-s says, larger buffers, dynamic pre-rendering, or even just better scheduling.

DAWs are invoked by the ASIO driver the exact same way DAWs invoke VSTs and REs. However, you're not really supposed to do much processing in the ASIO thread (it's probably high-priority and can slow the system performance), so you're supposed to do your processing in another thread, and then just copy them during the ASIO "call".

At the same time, DAWs are multithreaded, as are some plugins. Multithreading requires further communication and synchronization. Threads will "sleep" as well, and the OS alarm clock isn't always accurate (plus Operating Systems are optimizing needs such as UI fluidity and overall system performance).

Poor synchronization can result in threads waking up late, which has the same effect as lowering the CPU quota. Poor synchronization with the ASIO buffer can reduce available CPU cycles for DSP processing.

Think about it. If you have an 8-hour window to do your work, but you sleep through half of it, you'll only get half of what you could have done completed. Your managers will see 50% productivity compared to others at the same level of skill.

It could be something else. I'm just pointing out a few details that can come into play.

But given DAWs don't "run" plugins, the efficiency of a DAW doesn't factor into how well plugins perform. It will be other things around it (including larger buffers and dynamic pre-rendering). For example, your DAW could run plugins at a higher buffer size when playing from the timeline (since latency isn't an issue).

But at the end of the day, you're still getting more instances, which is the important detail :thumbs_up:

sdst
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01 Aug 2021

also Reaper can frezer tracks, converting them to audio

and to make a change, it can go back to midi unfreezing the track

avasopht
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01 Aug 2021

Worth pointing out that Reaper also has a modular Track Routing:

Image

EdGrip
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06 Aug 2021

I know Reaper can run a LOT more instances of (X) VST on my computer than either Reason or Ableton. But I only use it as a tape machine for sampling - the UI is, indeed, horrible and not intuitive.

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Creativemind
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08 Aug 2021

avasopht wrote:
01 Aug 2021
Worth pointing out that Reaper also has a modular Track Routing:

Image
Did not know this. Handy to know.

Reaper has pretty much everything, well apart from Retrospective Recording (there is a workaround by opening a new project tab and leaving it recording) and chord / key display in the arranger but I just use Chord Detector Re for this purpose.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
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Creativemind
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08 Aug 2021

Reaper has a new update, 6.34. with 18 features.

One relates to the Reason Rack Plug-In, see attached pic.
Attachments
Reasper Update Fixes Reason 11 Issues With CC.PNG
Reasper Update Fixes Reason 11 Issues With CC.PNG (3.3 KiB) Viewed 2935 times
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Billy+
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08 Aug 2021

So I open Reaper add RRP to a track and then what?

In Reason I just double click the sequencer and get a clip drag it out 8 bars double click and start adding note data, but in Reaper that doesn't seem to work.....

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motuscott
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08 Aug 2021

It's complicated...
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

avasopht
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08 Aug 2021

motuscott wrote:
08 Aug 2021
It's complicated...
Sshhhh 🤫

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Billy+
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08 Aug 2021

motuscott wrote:
08 Aug 2021
It's complicated...
avasopht wrote:
08 Aug 2021
Sshhhh 🤫

I doubt it's complicated, just not very intuitive and I really can't be bothered to even use it :lol:

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motuscott
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08 Aug 2021

👍🏽
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

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Creativemind
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08 Aug 2021

Billy+ wrote:
08 Aug 2021
So I open Reaper add RRP to a track and then what?

In Reason I just double click the sequencer and get a clip drag it out 8 bars double click and start adding note data, but in Reaper that doesn't seem to work.....
You can just ctrl left click and drag a clip provided the right track in the TCP is selected or alternatively go to the top of the screen to the menu's and go to the Insert menu and choose New MIDI Item.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
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Creativemind
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08 Aug 2021

Billy+ wrote:
08 Aug 2021
motuscott wrote:
08 Aug 2021
It's complicated...
avasopht wrote:
08 Aug 2021
Sshhhh 🤫

I doubt it's complicated, just not very intuitive and I really can't be bothered to even use it :lol:
It's not that hard but yeah, if you want a simplified daw, stick to Reason.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
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DaveyG
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09 Aug 2021

Billy+ wrote:
08 Aug 2021

I doubt it's complicated, just not very intuitive and I really can't be bothered to even use it :lol:
You just need to spend 30 minutes or so watching a "getting started" video to nail the basic concepts and workflow. I don't find Reaper very intuitive but all DAWs have their unintuitive bits and Reason is no exception. Here are two things that regularly confuse new Reason users:

1. Clicking on a synth in the rack highlights it but does not automatically move the midi input to it so the previous synth continues to play.
2. That browsing mode with the orange header bar where it only shows compatible patches so it looks like lots of your files are missing. "Uh, this Refill seems to be empty".

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Billy+
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09 Aug 2021

DaveyG wrote:
09 Aug 2021
Billy+ wrote:
08 Aug 2021

I doubt it's complicated, just not very intuitive and I really can't be bothered to even use it :lol:
You just need to spend 30 minutes or so watching a "getting started" video to nail the basic concepts and workflow. I don't find Reaper very intuitive but all DAWs have their unintuitive bits and Reason is no exception. Here are two things that regularly confuse new Reason users:

1. Clicking on a synth in the rack highlights it but does not automatically move the midi input to it so the previous synth continues to play.
2. That browsing mode with the orange header bar where it only shows compatible patches so it looks like lots of your files are missing. "Uh, this Refill seems to be empty".
lol yeah I've seen #1 confuse way too many people over the years :thumbs_up:

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