Field / Nature Recordings

[Proboscis]

Forum member Joeyluck has mentioned this recording technique on occasion, but I would like to have a more in-depth discussion with anyone who's doing this stuff.

I'm just about complete with a portable video/audio rig to take trekking and record long (1hr+ takes) of natural environments, and will publish them to YouTube. Since I will be hauling gear to isolated locations far from any human sound sources (ie; noise pollution), I'm going for 'compact', as follows

Newly Purchased Nikon D7500, mounted to tripod
Zoom recorder with X/Y mic configuration (at 120º), mounted to Nikon's hot-shoe
2 x small condensor mics (we will call them mics 3/4), mounted to the tripod legs (Im going to work out some clamping solution today)

Can anyone suggest how to mix mic's 3/4 for reproduction on a 2-speaker output, so the sounds appears to be coming from behind the subject ? I have that Revolution Surround Sound RE and used it for music projects in the past, but there's something unconvincing about how it applies the effect.

Are there any mixing tricks to achieve a 'behind' audio illusion ?

And any other tips or tricks for a 4-channel nature recording to consider, such as avoiding phase issues, best placement of mics, noise floor and preamp noise/subject noise ratios etc ? The primary sound sources will be birds and running water (surf beaches, river tide lapping, waterfalls)

[Loque]

I would use HPF and LPF, maybe EQ. Than some reverb with the right sound, like a very big hall, chamber or even better a convolution, with no predelay, maybe less attack to the source sound. Some reverbs have a distance control. All in all less dry sound, more damping, less hights.

Maybe this thing can help a bit
https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/plugins/proximity/

Note, that there are 3d sound to stereo tools and VSTs available, but i dont have much experience with them.

[joeyluck]

Are you interested in ambisonic specifically? Do you need 4-channels? If you want something you can mix after the fact, an ambisonic recorder like the Zoom H3-VR is the simplest and most affordable all-in-one solution I've seen. It's something I've been tempted to grab, but I've been waiting now for the Zoom Q6-VR (ambisonic audio + 360 video in one package). They unofficially announced that in January and there hasn't been a peep about it since...

What I've been recording a lot of is binaural audio, which gives a 360/3D perception. I'm using the Zoom F1 and the Sound Professionals MS-TFB-2 binaural mics.

F1 with binaural mics.jpg (117.06 KiB) Viewed 1979 times

I couldn't be happier with that setup. I clip the incredibly portable F1 to my waistband or belt and then I put the mics in my ears (which are very comfortable and don't obstruct my hearing) and hit record. Hands free and incredibly portable (I can go anywhere) and I think the sound is really great.

Here is one of my recent binaural recordings of a thunderstorm. Listen with headphones
CAUTION some startling thunderclaps and lightning strikes nearby around 16:57



And some frogs and dogs:

[joeyluck]

Also keep in mind that those examples above are Soundcloud links. The actual recordings sound better.

[Proboscis]

I would use HPF and LPF, maybe EQ. Than some reverb with the right sound, like a very big hall, chamber or even better a convolution, with no predelay, maybe less attack to the source sound. Some reverbs have a distance control. All in all less dry sound, more damping, less hights.

I did a few test recordings a week ago, and found that yes, HPF was critical in salvaging something listenable, along with some basic EQ.

My concern with reverb though, is that since patches/IR's typically emulate a room, that would be the LAST thing I want to be using for nature recordings.

[Proboscis]

Are you interested in ambisonic specifically? Do you need 4-channels?

Not sure how to answer you.... Is there a specific definition of 'ambisonic', beyond the notion of capturing 'surround sound' ? What I'm really trying to achieve here is a recorded capture that replicates what the human ear perceives when sitting in a jungle for an extended period. The human ear clearly perceives noises in front as well as behind. If that's 'ambisonic', then yes, that's what I'm interested in.

This is not a 'need' project, it's simply as a hobby. But I would 'like' 4-channels

That device you mention looks cool, but I'm not buying any more gear (apart from accessories). I already have a H6, so that will be sufficient.

Last week I set up my H6 with only the X/Y's at 120º, and it's incredible how it represents nature through L/R. I was surprised at how much separation between channels it captured. The location was a small creek at sunrise, as the many birds awakened into song as the light rose. It's a shame the input gain was too low, as it would have made for a brilliant field recording. I won't have the chance to do that again anytime in the forseeable future, as the location is 500+ miles from my home.

But... a friend, and fellow hiker, put me on to a location that we're going to visit soon, where birdwatchers have identified more than 180 species, and as many as 45 species chirping at the same moment in time !

[joeyluck]

Are you interested in ambisonic specifically? Do you need 4-channels?

Not sure how to answer you.... Is there a specific definition of 'ambisonic', beyond the notion of capturing 'surround sound' ? What I'm really trying to achieve here is a recorded capture that replicates what the human ear perceives when sitting in a jungle for an extended period. The human ear clearly perceives noises in front as well as behind. If that's 'ambisonic', then yes, that's what I'm interested in.

This is not a 'need' project, it's simply as a hobby. But I would 'like' 4-channels

That device you mention looks cool, but I'm not buying any more gear (apart from accessories). I already have a H6, so that will be sufficient.

Last week I set up my H6 with only the X/Y's at 120º, and it's incredible how it represents nature through L/R. I was surprised at how much separation between channels it captured. The location was a small creek at sunrise, as the many birds awakened into song as the light rose. It's a shame the input gain was too low, as it would have made for a brilliant field recording. I won't have the chance to do that again anytime in the forseeable future, as the location is 500+ miles from my home.

But... a friend, and fellow hiker, put me on to a location that we're going to visit soon, where birdwatchers have identified more than 180 species, and as many as 45 species chirping at the same moment in time !

Gotcha. Well in that case, binaural recording that I described does that—it is capturing and replicating human hearing. Those mics I use, I place them in my ears and they record what I hear—they account for the size and shape of my head and my ears. They can be plugged into any recorder that has plugin power (which is most recorders). So I can use them with my H5 (and they can be used with the H6), but I chose to get an F1 for the portability. And they are the best in-ear binaural mics in my opinion, since they sit further in the ear. And they are inexpensive. Other binaural mics that are the earbud type sit a little outside of the ear and earbuds are much less comfortable for me and they obscure hearing.

You can of course achieve binaural effect with ambisonic audio, but unless you have a setup built for it (like the Zoom H3-VR or the Sennheiser Ambeo VR), I think it can be a bit more complicated. But with ambisonic audio, those recordings can be mixed and they can be paired with 360 video and the listener/viewer can move their head (or click and shift the view of the video) and the sound and image moves together.

[joeyluck]

Also, you might find binaural panner/spatializer plugins useful:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7502563

Those plugins simulate the binaural/3D audio. Using those, you can create your own environments. So you could record many different sources (stereo or mono), and then place them wherever you like within the space and manually pan them to different locations to create movement in any direction (left, right, front, back, below or above).

[Proboscis]

Also keep in mind that those examples above are Soundcloud links. The actual recordings sound better.

I'm back in front of the studio speakers now, and just listened to your two recordings. Brilliant stuff

There's a 'bird hide' near me that provides a covered seating position looking out over a waterbird refuge. I'm going to go down there next time it's pouring with rain. HOWEVER, I'm thinking about the best way to record rain, from the perspective of being in the rain, rather than being under a roof. Two very different results would ensue.....

[joeyluck]

Also keep in mind that those examples above are Soundcloud links. The actual recordings sound better.

I'm back in front of the studio speakers now, and just listened to your two recordings. Brilliant stuff

There's a 'bird hide' near me that provides a covered seating position looking out over a waterbird refuge. I'm going to go down there next time it's pouring with rain. HOWEVER, I'm thinking about the best way to record rain, from the perspective of being in the rain, rather than being under a roof. Two very different results would ensue.....

Thanks. On speakers it's still good, but intended for headphones for the 3D binaural effect.

I really like the sound recording rain from under trees or under an umbrella. Makes for a cool sound.

[EdGrip]

Binaural recording to "replicate" the experience of being there hearing it with your own ears. As Joey says, because it's ear-specific, listening on speakers won't work so well. You'll need earphones for the full effect.

We humans only have two channels of audio. So long as you put a mic where each of our ears might be, with a head in between to diffuse sounds around, you'll record an environment exactly as you hear it.

Recording lots of channels and then trying to mix it down in a way that makes sense over a stereo system is a long winded way of doing it that won't get such "real" results.

If you're recording surround sound to be played back over a multi-channel surround sound system, that's a different matter. For stereo playback, record stereo, I'd say!

[Proboscis]

Binaural recording to "replicate" the experience of being there hearing it with your own ears.

That makes perfect sense, if considering the Latin etymology of the word. Bi = two, Aural = something to do with the ears. I think my confusion with Joey's earlier question was because of my only exposure to the word has been in the context of that new-age crap that claims to have all manner of wonderful healing powers to the listener - where from memory two tones pitched slightly differently creates an illusory sound.

Guitarists who tune by ear will know this phenomena well, when listening for a pulsing and that it reduces in time-frequency the closer the strings are to correct pitch.

We humans only have two channels of audio. So long as you put a mic where each of our ears might be, with a head in between to diffuse sounds around, you'll record an environment exactly as you hear it.

I'm not so sure about that. Over time I will devise some tests (mostly because I get a bit nerdy/obsessive over the technical aspects of anything I embark upon!), but I would have thought that the polar pattern of how humans pick up sounds via the ear would differ significantly from 2 x general purpose condenser microphones. But I'm guessing that's where an X/Y paired config. helps to capture a greater spatial ambiance.

'Less gear' is certainly more appealing, since I'll be hauling equipment on my back into rugged terrain, and the less weight I have when climbing back out from a valley floor would be doing myself a lot of favors.

Recording lots of channels and then trying to mix it down in a way that makes sense over a stereo system is a long winded way of doing it that won't get such "real" results.

Maybe I should hold off on buying the Rode i16 for the moment

rode_i16.PNG (82.11 KiB) Viewed 1869 times

[Proboscis]

I guess the wonder that is human beings might be considered too. Years ago I remember an acquaintance with a home studio would have me over to listen to music, and me being young, drunk and stoned I would always say CRANK IT UP SOME MORE. He was always chastising me with a response such as "no dude, turn up your EARS"

My point is, we have a consciousness that is adapting to unplanned situations at every second of our life. If we were sitting in the forest, and a sound came from behind, then we might adjust our aural focus to concentrate specifically on that sound. However, translating that perception to a studio environment, where we already know what sounds might be coming, then adjusting gain, might actually make the organic experience less natural. The same might be said if using a 3rd & 4th mic facing backwards - the gain might, in all likelihood, be much louder than the actual in-field situation.

Note that this is all purely speculative, and I'm writing for the interests of conversation

[Proboscis]

Actually, to expand upon my last post - back in 2015 I was privileged to have an opportunity to spend some days and nights in a tropical jungle in Southern Thailand. My lodgings was a simple wooden hut with no windows, and the location was hundreds of miles from any road traffic so the night sounds were unfiltered by the rumble of society. And oh my... the night-jungle sounds were incredible ! And loud, collectively. While some city-folks get a bit uncomfortable (or sometimes outright frightened), I found it fascinating, as I'm no stranger to rugged remote forests.

But... there was this ONE sound among the cacophony of perhaps a hundred. It took on the sound of a crunching up of aluminum foil. Over the nights I was there, this became increasingly uncomfortable to me, quite disturbing. Was it louder than other sounds in that jungle ? No, I really don't think so. In fact it was lower than a lot of the other critters sing-song. However it took center stage to me, because I was too mentally focused on it to let it go. Having that experience 'on-mic' would have resulted in an entirely different listening experience, in fact if I had recorded we could analyse the sound and see, without any doubt, that this particular sound was not loud at all. It merely hijacked my consciousness.

[EdGrip]

The ear canal is part of the puzzle, and one of the mic companies (I think Sennheiser?) make a binaural head with mics embedded in its "ears" to make the effect even more exact. I've seen them used at work once or twice.

You're thinking of binaural beats - you play each ear (via earphones) a sine wave at slightly different frequencies, so that each ear is hearing *none* of what the other ear is. But, you still "hear" the two tones beating like a pair of not-quite-in-tune guitar strings. It's interesting in that, because in terms of actual physical moving-air sound, you're not hearing the two tones at the same time, since they are exclusive to each ear. So the interference pattern of the two tones going in and out of phase (the beating) isn't happening in air as sound. It's happening in your brain's *processing of* the sensory stimulus. Which is pretty interesting!

[joeyluck]

I think you should read up more on binaural recording and binaural audio and listen to examples using headphones. This is exactly what binaural audio does.

As EdGrip mentions, we only have two ears. What helps you to perceive sound in all directions is the natural filtering that occurs based on the shape of your ears, your head, the reflections in the room or environment you're in, and your brain's calibration and interpretation of all these things.

So when you record with binaural mics in your ears (or with a dummy head), it captures this pretty well. And when you listen back on headphones, you'll have the full experience.

I think you'd be very pleased if you got a pair of binaural mics to use with your H6. I recommend the ones by Sound Professionals, but you might find some others that suit your needs. I had created a thread here when I was researching the options: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7498473

[Proboscis]

So the interference pattern of the two tones going in and out of phase (the beating) isn't happening in air as sound. It's happening in your brain's *processing of* the sensory stimulus. Which is pretty interesting!

Your post has.... kinda blown my mind. I'll admit that I'm very cynical of new-age stuff, and certainly the claims about Binaural Beats are rather unscientific. And from (my assumptions of) the technical perspective, I always though 'no big deal' since my ears has been tuned to the 'beat' of detuned frequencies for decades, as a guitar player. About a year ago I even went so far as to spend a few days fooling around in Reason, and concluded that I could just use some complex LFO configurations (Ammo RE) for the projects, and scale the beat frequency (time) with automation. Clearly I TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD THE CONCEPT

BUT..... your greater explanation of what's going on with those BB's are quite incredible. That it's the BRAIN that's processing the frequency (wave) differences, independent of each other, and devoid of existing together in free space.

Thanks so much for the elaboration. It *is* pretty interesting !

[Proboscis]

@Joeyluck

My apologies - I mistakenly read your earlier post as suggesting a whole new recording device, rather than simply dedicated mic's into a regular field recorder.

Since your 2017 thread, did you ever get a chance to use the Rolands, or are you happy enough with the MS-TFB-2 ? I can't actually source the Sound Professionals buds in my country, only the Rolands.

All of that aside though, I feel that I have plenty sufficient gear to get out in the field and do something for starters, and can look into other options down the track. Quite interested in researching the DIY approach as well

[selig]

The "magic" happens in the recording, so if you get that "right" you don't need to do so much on the back end except for what is required to reproduce the recorded effect properly. If you don't go with the binaural approach, look into the rigs used to record surround SFX.
Also consider rigs such as the Zoom H3-VR, which is all but specifically designed for what it sounds like you're trying to accomplish.
Start with the right gear for what you need to capture and you'll be far happier in the end IMO.

[joeyluck]

@Joeyluck

My apologies - I mistakenly read your earlier post as suggesting a whole new recording device, rather than simply dedicated mic's into a regular field recorder.

Since your 2017 thread, did you ever get a chance to use the Rolands, or are you happy enough with the MS-TFB-2 ? I can't actually source the Sound Professionals buds in my country, only the Rolands.

All of that aside though, I feel that I have plenty sufficient gear to get out in the field and do something for starters, and can look into other options down the track. Quite interested in researching the DIY approach as well

Oh bummer. No I never tried the Roland ones. You can find some YouTube demos though.

[joeyluck]

The "magic" happens in the recording, so if you get that "right" you don't need to do so much on the back end except for what is required to reproduce the recorded effect properly. If you don't go with the binaural approach, look into the rigs used to record surround SFX.
Also consider rigs such as the Zoom H3-VR, which is all but specifically designed for what it sounds like you're trying to accomplish.
Start with the right gear for what you need to capture and you'll be far happier in the end IMO.

Yeah I had suggested the H3-VR as well.

I think it comes down to the experience you want to create and control that is desired.

If the goal is to capture sound as you hear it, and have the listener share in that experience with 3D audio—binaural mics are the way to go. I also like to pair this with my GoPro on my head, so for the most part they see and hear as I did. But I also like binaural recordings on their own so people can use their imaginations.

If you want control over mixing the environment and space after it's been recorded and/or having the listener have control over their own experience (having audio shift as they navigate), typically paired with 360 video, then Ambisonics is the way to go. Of course, I can still manipulate my binaural recordings if I like and get some decent results, but I typically leave them as is and I do no processing.

But I agree, I don't think I would try to tackle ambisonics in a makeshift fashion. There are formats in which dedicated recorders utilize (such as AmbiX and FuMa), and the software that does all the calculations based on the specific ambisonic mic and its arrangement, and the paired software that makes it easy to mix/pan using those formats, and then it can then also be translated to 5.1 or binaural.

Certainly nothing against exploring and doing recordings with multiple mics to capture sound from different directions and creating cool experiences from that. But I think the confusion can be when calling it ambisonics or trying to achieve ambisonics, which is a bit more complicated.

[Proboscis]

Oh for sure. I do occasional 'studio batch' work with a buddy of mine who is a very skilled career pro-photographer, and his mantra is always 'get it right in-camera' instead of relying on his team of photoshop wizards to fix stuff. Of course he has over $30k of cameras, lenses and a lifetime of skills to call upon, but it's a good approach to have.

As for considering other core recording rigs, that's not going to happen. I'm not in the market for anything else since I already have a field recorder that has a fairly positive reputation And I've just made the biggest gear purchase in 10 years the other day, on a $2k Nikon kit, with some unexpected cash that I came into, so any other high end purchases are off the table ('high-end' being relative to my circumstances)

I've gathered during my time on the forum that you're a pro audio/studio guy..... did you ever get served that Youtube advert about six months ago of a microphone that seemed to claim was so sensitive that it could pick up a bee's fart ? Well not that specifically, but the video ad began with a vibrating tuning fork being placed into water. I can't think of the brand, but their claims per the demonstration suggested that it's an incredible microphone. Probably hella expensive, since they put so many marketing dollars into the campaign.

[Proboscis]

Certainly nothing against exploring and doing recordings with multiple mics to capture sound from different directions and creating cool experiences from that. But I think the confusion can be when calling it ambisonics or trying to achieve ambisonics, which is a bit more complicated.

Ok point taken. I've modified the thread title. I didn't realize 'ambisonics' was a very specific terminology.

[Proboscis]

I think it comes down to the experience you want to create and control that is desired.

Allow me to expand upon the seed that was planted for me wanting to get into this.

Last week I returned from a 7 day solo road trip, staying in a large regional center, then a few days in an isolated farm & forest environment, then the last couple of days in a regional surf & river township. I thought I would pack a couple of tripods and my H6 since I've rarely used it since I bought it a few years ago. On the property I was staying on, I decided to set up the phone (camera) and the H6 by a little creek and just leave it for a couple of hours. The property owner, who I befriended, thought the idea was fantastic, and mentioned that his nephew (who lives in another state, in a city) has often spoken about how he would love to go to sleep to the sounds of the property. At that stage I thought... well I'll leave the H6 in the forest for the whole day, as I went out exploring the region.

And then I got to thinking... how lovely would it be to make some high quality video recordings, synced to decent quality field recordings, so I could leave these takes playing in my own home (in the city). A little part of mother nature right in my own living room. Then thinking back to the nephew, how cool would it be to share these recordings with anyone else who wanted to enjoy a similar experience.... why not think about creating some stuff for Youtube.

Sadly, my phone's cam was often 'hunting' as the light changed (I did 1.5hrs of sunrise and 1.5 hours of sunset, lots of elements like the dawn sun rising, lots of fog over a cow field) and the auto-ISO created some truly awful and non-natural artifacts. A perfect case of 'not the right tools for the job'. I don't care one little bit though, as I wasn't shooting for videographers to critique. I consider it 'art' rather than as a formal documentarian. In the end, for one video, I noodled around with the color and contrast so much that's it's totally un-natural. Obviously now that I have since gotten a 'proper' camera, I'll work towards learning to emulate real-life as seen through the eyes, but maybe sometimes I'll decide to crank the color correction into some bizarre interpretation. Sometimes the notion of 'interesting' is as appealing to me as 'authentic'.

So too with audio field recording. I'm not necessarily going to produce content for other wildlife recordists. It's primarily for me, a minority of one person, and further to that for anyone in the general public who happens to find my channel. I think of it similar to modern music producers - who aren't ultimately mixing and mastering for other producers who run the tracks through $2,000 monitors in acoustically treated rooms, but for the majority who listen through shitty headphones or buds, or shitty car stereos, or through their TV speaker. I don't think your average person even owns a Hi-Fi in 2020.

Of course, I'll work up towards the best, most natural and authentic reproduction as much as my growing experience allows, and I've got a lot of reading + trial & error to go through. There are no shortcuts. But if I can start creating videos that are overall 'pleasing' to the average Joe, and to myself, then I'll be satisfied.

The other reason I'm embarking on this is because I have some issues. I isolate in my house too much, and sometimes it's a struggle to walk out the door. Having a purpose to get outside and explore the wilderness more often, will be a tremendous opportunity to do some good things for my mental health.

[Dabbler]

All I know is from my own attempts to record rain storms whence a thunder clap came and clipped my input.