Behringer are making a DAW

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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miscend
Posts: 1462
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

Post 08 Mar 2020

It’s now official. We will be creating our own Music Tribe DAW.
This is a massive undertaking, which will take at least 18 months and for that purpose we have now assembled a large development team.
Our Music Tribe DAW will also include samples and VST’s plus connections to third party VST’s. Our goal is to include the very best features available, including multiple user interfaces for both recording and DJ. We would love to develop this together with you and hence encourage you to share your preferred platforms and features so we can consider your input. Our opportunity is that we have no legacy platform to maintain, which will allow us to think “blue sky” and combine the “best of all worlds”.

Best of all, the DAW will be FREE of charge! Our goal is to empower all musicians to record, mix, edit and publish their music.

As always thank you so much for all your support and loyalty.
With Behringer and UAD both making fully featured free DAWs, what does that mean for Reason? These are companies with bigger pockets and more resources than Reason Studios.

https://www.musictech.net/news/behringe ... a-new-daw/

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guitfnky
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Post 08 Mar 2020

wow, that sounds promising. Behringer is a solid company, and seem to put a lot of thought into user experience. very much looking forward to seeing what they come up with.

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QVprod
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Post 08 Mar 2020

UAD’s Luna isn’t really free being tied to Apollo and all. Regardless, Reason will likely be unaffected at this point. There’s already a plethora of daws, adding one more is pretty minuscule, even if free. Besides, the plugin keeps Reason’s value relevant even if you don’t use the daw side of it.

There’s also a human psychology to value and price. Free options are rarely the most popular, as we’ve seen with Reaper and now Cakewalk.

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demt
Posts: 1032
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Post 08 Mar 2020

i never thought id b annoyed by a free b
currently akai touch mpc. reasonsuite11, android kaosilater .behringer ddm4000 dj mixer
hear scince reason 2.5

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Proboscis
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Post 09 Mar 2020

Behringer will be purchasing Reason, adding all the feature requests from the past 20 years, and offering it for free, with Promo/Auth licence keys given out with all their products. For the VST version, it's a low, low $19.99 per month subscription to use Reason as a plugin.

Seriously though... does the world need another DAW ? Seems like a saturated market already.

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guitfnky
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Post 09 Mar 2020

given the fact that many of us Reason lovers still gripe over missing features, but we still USE it in lieu of any other DAW (i.e. no other DAW lives up to our standards as well as Reason does), and many users of other DAWs likely do the same...yeah, I think the world does need another DAW.

that’s not to say I expect to be switching—that would depend on the feature set, and the experience it offers—but it does suggest there’s room for more. for me, if they can find the sweet spot between creative inspiration, user experience, and functionality (without making it bloated), it will definitely be worth a look. it’s a target Reason is very near to reaching, but they’ve kept putting off the stuff that would get it there.

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Faastwalker
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Post 09 Mar 2020

Will it be a clone DAW?! :roll:

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guitfnky
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Post 09 Mar 2020

Faastwalker wrote:
09 Mar 2020
Will it be a clone DAW?! :roll:
no need to look down on a company for providing affordable alternatives to what many people view as overpriced gear. they make plenty of their own proprietary stuff, and the quality is excellent. nothing’s stopping anyone from paying full price for a brand name that does the same thing, if that’s really what they want to spend their money on.

to answer your question though, in a word, doubtful. they’re actively looking for suggestions and feedback on what people want out of a DAW. no need to do that if they were just cloning it.

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Zac
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Post 09 Mar 2020

What interests me is how it got to this?

Surely they must have started out by approaching the big DAW makers? Reason lite bundled with Akai for a while etc, etc.

How come they couldn't strike a deal?

If the above scenario is true and Behringer end up making a decent alternative FREE DAW, there might be some regrets over sending them away without a deal?

Just a thought :evil:

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xboix
Posts: 248
Joined: 22 Oct 2019

Post 10 Mar 2020

This sounds like an early April Fool.
Why would they spend $$$ developing a new DAW from scratch and then give it away?

Plus I've known Behringer for many years and their smartness and specifications when it comes to making great value hardware is matched only by their consistently poor software offerings. They have never managed to produce a good set of drivers or a slick editor/librarian for any their products.

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guitfnky
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Post 10 Mar 2020

xboix wrote:
10 Mar 2020
This sounds like an early April Fool.
Why would they spend $$$ developing a new DAW from scratch and then give it away?

Plus I've known Behringer for many years and their smartness and specifications when it comes to making great value hardware is matched only by their consistently poor software offerings. They have never managed to produce a good set of drivers or a slick editor/librarian for any their products.
I don’t use anything else of theirs that would require an app, but their Deepmind synth has a great software editor.

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zoidkirb
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Location: Brisbane Australia

Post 10 Mar 2020

It may be free but they'll make money somehow. Wether that's in app purchases to extend the daw capability or their own set of new vsts.
Behringers business model is small margin/high volume sales so I think this can work. The first goal will be to attract a huge userbase and then monetize that. They're rich enough for this not to be a risk at all.

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guitfnky
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Post 10 Mar 2020

yeah, I wouldn’t discount their ability to leverage it into making money, just because it’ll be free. if they deliver a solid DAW that provides an enjoyable user experience, just brand awareness and word-of-mouth alone will help them a lot.

not least because there are still a lot of skeptics of their quality, still (for some baffling reason), as you can sense even in this thread.

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avasopht
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Post 10 Mar 2020

Well, if they made a proprietary plugin format that added value to developers and users (like RE's do) then it's easy for them to make a fortune from their plugin store.
---

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jam-s
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 10 Mar 2020

As the RE SDK is now open to the public, they could implement their own RE host following the spec.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace.

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miscend
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Post 11 Mar 2020

Behringer might be making affordable gear for all. But there’s a catch, can you honestly use any of their stuff with a clear conscience?

They might be criticised for using cheap low paid labour in the Far East. But even in Western Europe if you search Glassdoor for Music Tribe and Behringer, they have the worst reviews of any company I know. Former employees even say Uli directs employees to write positive reviews about the company on social media.

Excerpt from review by former engineer
Disturbing use of talents. Engineers don't innovate, they reverse engineer as per the instruction of the sociopathic CEO who thinks he is Steve Jobs (he is not). As an engineer, this is not the place you go to innovate and do great things. This is where you go to learn to rip off other companies designs and recreate them using the absolute cheapest parts.
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Beh ... 334438.htm

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Mus ... 662385.htm


Behringer sued Dave Smith instruments and indivual Internet forum members on GS for negative comments in their forum posts. They even sent a cease and desist letter to a Chinese music blog, Midifan, for negative coverage.

https://cdm.link/2018/06/behringer-have ... efamation/


Behringer made moves to register trademarks that are actively owned by their competitors.

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2019/11/be ... -poly.html


Behringer dont like journalists critical of them. In January 2020 they started a campaign to mock Peter Kirn. This began by registering his name as a trademark. These was followed by a series of memes mocking him on their social media channels. And then eventually a mock product video called the KIRN Cork Sniffer. A large multi national organisation putting resources to go after an individual, just because he is critical of their products.

Image


https://www.musictech.net/news/11-thing ... eter-kirn/

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wxe7 ... journalist


Apparently the Behringer 303 Clone is a copy of another 303 clone that’s already on the market - the open music labs BA662. They couldn’t be bothered to make their own clone 303 circuit.


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QVprod
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Post 11 Mar 2020

Have serious doubts about them making a plugin format. Only reason it made sense for RS to do it was because of how unique the environment is. Otherwise, the various plugin formats available offer very little difference from one another to the end user.

As far as making money, Behringer or err... Music tribe, is a hardware company. Considering their statement I guess, they have DJ controllers in the pipeline. That also the only angle they can come from with a DAW that won't have much competition.

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Mar 2020

guitfnky wrote:
09 Mar 2020
/snip/
yeah, I think the world does need another DAW.

that’s not to say I expect to be switching—that would depend on the feature set, and the experience it offers—but it does suggest there’s room for more. for me, if they can find the sweet spot between creative inspiration, user experience, and functionality (without making it bloated), it will definitely be worth a look.
I thought Bitwig were doing that already ? Maybe Bitwig are the measure of how a virtual studio enters the scene, being one of the youngest DAWs on the market. Although I have bever explored it, I'm of the mind that it has a lot of features. The best bits of every other DAW, and maybe even some unique approaches.

And how are Bitwig faring ? At only five years old, it came in on MusicRadar's 2019 "Best DAWs" poll at #9..... Now I don't for one moment put any stock in that poll as 'The Best DAW', but it does reflect a marketshare of readers who are a good enough barometer of active DAW users. The poll would be better called "Which DAW do you use?"

And the newcomer, Bitwig... is #9

Cakewalk (formerly Sonar) is #8

And Reason is #7

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Mar 2020

miscend wrote:
11 Mar 2020
Behringer might be making affordable gear for all. But there’s a catch, can you honestly use any of their stuff with a clear conscience?
Wow. That's an interesting bunch of claims. My thoughts on Behringer over the last few years, and certainly the last 12 months, is that they were cool, innovative, good vibes, good quality, in touch with their customers, and all round A+ music hardware company.

Quite a few years ago, Behringer were producing some pretty dinky stuff, cheap, poor quality etc. But they also had some better quality gear as well, for the price point. I have a Behringer amp/cab combo for guitar that's a fair build quality, and a good sound (as a modelling amp). And I bought some cheap-ass condenser mics that do the job, since Im not recording Beyonce or any other vocalist.

I'm not their target audience for this new direction they are going in... hardware synths..... but I have (or now I might say *had*) had a growing respect & appreciation for them. Saw a short video recently that mentioned they have the manufacturing might to have become a supplier of complex circuitry (maybe chips) to other manufacturers..... they have become a component-level manufacturer, over and above them being a producer of their own gear.

It's good to step back and consider their ethical behaviors when it comes to manufacturing. I will look into this more... along with your links & references

But the sad truth is, a lot of what we use is the end product of an exploitative industry. Weren't Apple under the radar a few years ago for iPhones being made in tech manufacturing sweatshops in China ? Is Samsung much different ? Or Levi's Jeans, who have for decades outsourced manufacturing to third-world-countries such as India, Pakistan & Bangladesh. Tonnes of other clothing these days also comes out of Cambodia, a place where the workers went on strike for a higher wage, and the military were called in to disperse them.

If you haven't seen it already, I would like to recommend an excellent documentary .. "The True Cost". I'm sure you can either pay a small rental fee online, or source the film by other methods. I figure by the tone of your post that you will 'enjoy' watching it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Cost


By no means am I supporting Behringer here as 'just another exploiter', rather I am very keen into doing some further research. But what of all the other gear we own ? I have five Asian-origin guitars in my studio (Indonesia, Korea, China), two Chinese-made MIDI Controllers, a pair of hefty 8" monitors that I assume are also assembled in China. And........ a Propellerhead Audio interface..... made in China. I'm sitting in clothes that came from developing countries (ie; cheap labour, poor conditions, no unions) drinking a wine (locally grown !) that's been chilled in a Korean made refrigerator. I'm smoking a cigarette made in Singapore, and I light them with a Chinese-manufactured lighter.

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guitfnky
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Post 11 Mar 2020

miscend wrote:
11 Mar 2020
Behringer might be making affordable gear for all. But there’s a catch, can you honestly use any of their stuff with a clear conscience?
yes.

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