Should I upgrade my RAM? 16 to 32?

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KevTav
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Joined: 12 Jun 2016

Post 11 Feb 2020

I've optimized my comp settings as much as possible. Still getting a little delay in my songs though. I use Sonarworks and Izotope Ozone in the Master Edit windows. The Ozone Global mastering suite is a HOG. Great software, but takes a lot out. Especially if I have 4 or 5 different presets within my channel strips simultaneously.

I am running on 16 GB of RAM. Can upgrade to 32. Was wondering if it MIGHT help.
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jam-s
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Post 12 Feb 2020

Increasing RAM will most likely not help much unless your PC is out of RAM all the time.
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KevTav
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Post 12 Feb 2020

jam-s wrote:
12 Feb 2020
Increasing RAM will most likely not help much unless your PC is out of RAM all the time.
I don't appear to be. My DSP meter in Reason is always low. Second or third bar. That's about how high it goes in any song.

What can I do?
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KevTav
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Post 12 Feb 2020

As a side note, I have a folder on my desktop that is 50 GB of PHOTOS. Would migrating that folder off of my computer help?
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QVprod
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Post 12 Feb 2020

Ozone adds delay. Should be used at the very end of the process where the delay won’t matter. More ram won’t fix that. Mastering is for finishing the song.

KevTav
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Post 12 Feb 2020

QVprod wrote:
12 Feb 2020
Ozone adds delay. Should be used at the very end of the process where the delay won’t matter. More ram won’t fix that. Mastering is for finishing the song.
Yes, I always master at the end. But sometimes I use Ozone plugins on channel strip. That's literally what they are made for. Not just the end mastering process. And me bouncing tracks to Audio files is not helping. So it's not even keeping up even IF I did strictly use it in mastering, all Audio tracks, no MIDI.

When you say "When it won't matter" you're talking no PERFORMANCE processes?
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xboix
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Post 12 Feb 2020

I don't think it will help with your specific problem but definitely increase your RAM to 32G. It's cheap and easy to do and you will never regret it.

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QVprod
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Post 12 Feb 2020

KevTav wrote:
12 Feb 2020
QVprod wrote:
12 Feb 2020
Ozone adds delay. Should be used at the very end of the process where the delay won’t matter. More ram won’t fix that. Mastering is for finishing the song.
Yes, I always master at the end. But sometimes I use Ozone plugins on channel strip. That's literally what they are made for. Not just the end mastering process. And me bouncing tracks to Audio files is not helping. So it's not even keeping up even IF I did strictly use it in mastering, all Audio tracks, no MIDI.

When you say "When it won't matter" you're talking no PERFORMANCE processes?
Ozone isn’t meant to be used on individual channels. That’s what Izotope made Neutron for. Ozone isn’t made to be latency efficient because in mastering a 2 track, you don’t need it to be. Whether a track is audio or midi has no bearing on latency in playback, nor does the amount of ram you have.

KevTav
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Post 12 Feb 2020

QVprod wrote:
12 Feb 2020
KevTav wrote:
12 Feb 2020


Yes, I always master at the end. But sometimes I use Ozone plugins on channel strip. That's literally what they are made for. Not just the end mastering process. And me bouncing tracks to Audio files is not helping. So it's not even keeping up even IF I did strictly use it in mastering, all Audio tracks, no MIDI.

When you say "When it won't matter" you're talking no PERFORMANCE processes?
Ozone isn’t meant to be used on individual channels. That’s what Izotope made Neutron for. Ozone isn’t made to be latency efficient because in mastering a 2 track, you don’t need it to be. Whether a track is audio or midi has no bearing on latency in playback, nor does the amount of ram you have.
I don't have Neutron. You're saying I have been using Ozone wrong this whole time? I should take all instances of Ozone off strips and wait until I get down to the 2 track master process??? I use the plugins as VST inserts. Should I NOT even be doing that?
Yamaha DGX-650 (Controller) - Balance Interface - Asus GR8 2 - Intel Core i7-7700 3.60 GHz - 16GB RAM - Audio Technica ATH M50x Headphones - Yamaha HS 80M Monitors - Reason 10 - Izotope Ozone 8 Adv. -Epiphones - Taylors - SH*TLOAD of Plug-Ins

EdGrip
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Post 12 Feb 2020

Ozone introduces lots of latency - on any system - compared to most other plugins. It's not designed with latency in mind.
If you have the CPU power to run with small buffer sizes, this latency night be reduced - but it will still be big compared to other plugins. RAM isn't a factor.

16 should be plenty for any audio stuff unless you use loads of huge Kontakt sample libraries in projects. You'll be able to look at a system resources monitor to see if you're running out of RAM.

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guitfnky
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Post 12 Feb 2020

xboix wrote:
12 Feb 2020
I don't think it will help with your specific problem but definitely increase your RAM to 32G. It's cheap and easy to do and you will never regret it.
this is not necessarily true. if you’re currently only using two of your four RAM slots, and upgrade to fill all four slots, there’s a chance your performance will actually get worse. I just went through this. quadrupled my system RAM, and immediately started experiencing clicks and pops in projects that had previously played flawlessly. I took out two of the memory sticks (leaving me with 32GB instead of 64), and back to flawless playback.

now I’ve got two sticks of new RAM that are useless to me.

in related news, anyone want to buy 32 GB of very-slightly-used DDR4? :lol:

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Oquasec
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Post 12 Feb 2020

I can see 16gb of ram being the norm in the future.
Using a tiny machine with 4gb at the moment and gave the 8gb one away.
32gb of ram should be future proof for a very long time.
Producer/Sound Designer.

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Kalm
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Post 12 Feb 2020

KevTav wrote:
12 Feb 2020
QVprod wrote:
12 Feb 2020


Ozone isn’t meant to be used on individual channels. That’s what Izotope made Neutron for. Ozone isn’t made to be latency efficient because in mastering a 2 track, you don’t need it to be. Whether a track is audio or midi has no bearing on latency in playback, nor does the amount of ram you have.
I don't have Neutron. You're saying I have been using Ozone wrong this whole time? I should take all instances of Ozone off strips and wait until I get down to the 2 track master process??? I use the plugins as VST inserts. Should I NOT even be doing that?
Depends if you have the Advanced version or not. If you have the Standard version then you're loading up a whole latency suite of plugins in stacks. If the initial instantiation of Ozone is CPU heavy then imagine multiples. Advanced gives you the ability to use each module independently of the whole suite window but they're still mastering processes that use a lot of processing to achieve that fidelity. Imagine putting the Maximizer in IIRC V with True Peak just for a kick drum . . . how many resources do you expect to use. So while Izotope does say these can be used on individual channels, its not meant to be. Its simply the fact that they are VSTs and can't limit you to HOW you use it. I use the Vintage Limiter on my kick drums sometime or the Imager as a multi band widener/narrower. That's just CPU consumption and we haven't even mentioned latency.

Yes Neutron is practically the mixing equivalent to Ozone besides a few quirks. They built and marketed the product for the mixing environment due to lower latencies without the sacrifice of quality/fidelity in Ozone. Ozone is meant to handle complex audio while Neutron to simpler audio. If you must use the suite then I would recommend processing the tracks as audio AFTER you add the Ozone processes to it, then either turn the device OFF or remove it from the session.
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EnochLight
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Post 12 Feb 2020

KevTav wrote:
12 Feb 2020
As a side note, I have a folder on my desktop that is 50 GB of PHOTOS. Would migrating that folder off of my computer help?
Your photos are not stored in RAM; it's stored on your HDD (or SSD). Migrating them off of your computer won't help one bit, unless your actual HHD/SSD is filled up and you're running out of space?

Anyway, 16GB of RAM is more than enough for your use as explained in your OP. Ozone is just an intense set of software that induces latency due to its processing. Also, which version of Ozone are you using? The latest version has a lot of CPU-performance improvements.

Are you not using Ozone to master your entire song? Ozone is 100% meant to be the last thing in your signal chain, so you can master everything. Neutron is the channel strip suite that would be better suited to what you are trying to use Ozone for, IMHO.
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DrGOA®
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Post 12 Feb 2020

Increase your CPU power to use more plug-ins with lower latency.
RAM matters if you use many saples (or loops).

From Reason's manual:

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QVprod
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Post 12 Feb 2020

KevTav wrote:
12 Feb 2020
QVprod wrote:
12 Feb 2020


Ozone isn’t meant to be used on individual channels. That’s what Izotope made Neutron for. Ozone isn’t made to be latency efficient because in mastering a 2 track, you don’t need it to be. Whether a track is audio or midi has no bearing on latency in playback, nor does the amount of ram you have.
I don't have Neutron. You're saying I have been using Ozone wrong this whole time? I should take all instances of Ozone off strips and wait until I get down to the 2 track master process??? I use the plugins as VST inserts. Should I NOT even be doing that?
Correct. You may be able to get away with the individual plugins, but as stated, it’s really meant for mastering so latency isn’t a consideration which is the reason you’re having the problems you’re having.

KevTav
Posts: 213
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Post 13 Feb 2020

DrGOA® wrote:
12 Feb 2020
Increase your CPU power to use more plug-ins with lower latency.
RAM matters if you use many saples (or loops).

From Reason's manual:


CPU.png
I run on an Intel i7-7700 quad core.
Yamaha DGX-650 (Controller) - Balance Interface - Asus GR8 2 - Intel Core i7-7700 3.60 GHz - 16GB RAM - Audio Technica ATH M50x Headphones - Yamaha HS 80M Monitors - Reason 10 - Izotope Ozone 8 Adv. -Epiphones - Taylors - SH*TLOAD of Plug-Ins

KevTav
Posts: 213
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Post 13 Feb 2020

EnochLight wrote:
12 Feb 2020
KevTav wrote:
12 Feb 2020
As a side note, I have a folder on my desktop that is 50 GB of PHOTOS. Would migrating that folder off of my computer help?
Your photos are not stored in RAM; it's stored on your HDD (or SSD). Migrating them off of your computer won't help one bit, unless your actual HHD/SSD is filled up and you're running out of space?

Anyway, 16GB of RAM is more than enough for your use as explained in your OP. Ozone is just an intense set of software that induces latency due to its processing. Also, which version of Ozone are you using? The latest version has a lot of CPU-performance improvements.

Are you not using Ozone to master your entire song? Ozone is 100% meant to be the last thing in your signal chain, so you can master everything. Neutron is the channel strip suite that would be better suited to what you are trying to use Ozone for, IMHO.
I have the Ozone Advanced 8. The entire suite. I have been using Ozone PLUGINS on channel strips during the mixing process. I know better than to "Master as I go" but I've just been to lazy. When I drop Ozone out of anywhere in my Inserts or Master Inserts, the performance is great. I guess I should be doing this correctly and just use minimal processing until the absolute last stage (Mastering). I just have bad habits.
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KevTav
Posts: 213
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Post 13 Feb 2020

KevTav wrote:
13 Feb 2020
DrGOA® wrote:
12 Feb 2020
Increase your CPU power to use more plug-ins with lower latency.
RAM matters if you use many saples (or loops).

From Reason's manual:


CPU.png
I run on an Intel Core i7-7700 quad core. 3.60 Ghz
Yamaha DGX-650 (Controller) - Balance Interface - Asus GR8 2 - Intel Core i7-7700 3.60 GHz - 16GB RAM - Audio Technica ATH M50x Headphones - Yamaha HS 80M Monitors - Reason 10 - Izotope Ozone 8 Adv. -Epiphones - Taylors - SH*TLOAD of Plug-Ins

KevTav
Posts: 213
Joined: 12 Jun 2016

Post 13 Feb 2020

EnochLight wrote:
12 Feb 2020
KevTav wrote:
12 Feb 2020
As a side note, I have a folder on my desktop that is 50 GB of PHOTOS. Would migrating that folder off of my computer help?
Your photos are not stored in RAM; it's stored on your HDD (or SSD). Migrating them off of your computer won't help one bit, unless your actual HHD/SSD is filled up and you're running out of space?

Anyway, 16GB of RAM is more than enough for your use as explained in your OP. Ozone is just an intense set of software that induces latency due to its processing. Also, which version of Ozone are you using? The latest version has a lot of CPU-performance improvements.

Are you not using Ozone to master your entire song? Ozone is 100% meant to be the last thing in your signal chain, so you can master everything. Neutron is the channel strip suite that would be better suited to what you are trying to use Ozone for, IMHO.
Yeah exactly. I use Ozone Plug-Ins on strips. Sometimes an Imager, an EQ, an Exciter, Limiter, Compressor, etc. My computer handles them pretty well. If I have an 8 track song, there's maybe 4 -6 running in there on channels. No prob.

BUT, what I SHOULD be doing is utilizing the most out of native Reason effects or on board effects and EQs that come WITH the MIDI instruments. In a way I've been lazy, and "mastering as I go"...which is a horrible habit. But I want the RICHNESS of sound as I'm mixing. Bad 20 year habit.

And when I throw the entire Ozone Suite on the MASTERING CHAIN, forget it. My computer wants no part of it. But it's a habit I have to stop. I should be doing songs in baby steps, they way they're supposed to be done. Getting it right, and then getting it right, in mastering stage. I go for it all in one pass too much. I gotta start over and get Ozone out of my strips and chains until the end.
Yamaha DGX-650 (Controller) - Balance Interface - Asus GR8 2 - Intel Core i7-7700 3.60 GHz - 16GB RAM - Audio Technica ATH M50x Headphones - Yamaha HS 80M Monitors - Reason 10 - Izotope Ozone 8 Adv. -Epiphones - Taylors - SH*TLOAD of Plug-Ins

KevTav
Posts: 213
Joined: 12 Jun 2016

Post 13 Feb 2020

EdGrip wrote:
12 Feb 2020
Ozone introduces lots of latency - on any system - compared to most other plugins. It's not designed with latency in mind.
If you have the CPU power to run with small buffer sizes, this latency night be reduced - but it will still be big compared to other plugins. RAM isn't a factor.

16 should be plenty for any audio stuff unless you use loads of huge Kontakt sample libraries in projects. You'll be able to look at a system resources monitor to see if you're running out of RAM.
I went through the "Optimizing for your DAW" process the other day. Went down the whole checklist. My CPU is fine on usage. But that "Nvidia Container" crap keeps popping up no matter what I do. That thing STEALS CPU.
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EnochLight
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Post 13 Feb 2020

KevTav wrote:
13 Feb 2020
I have the Ozone Advanced 8. The entire suite
Just a heads up: there were very noticeable CPU efficiency improvements made in Ozone 9.
KevTav wrote:
13 Feb 2020
Yeah exactly. I use Ozone Plug-Ins on strips. Sometimes an Imager, an EQ, an Exciter, Limiter, Compressor, etc. My computer handles them pretty well. If I have an 8 track song, there's maybe 4 -6 running in there on channels. No prob.

BUT, what I SHOULD be doing is utilizing the most out of native Reason effects or on board effects and EQs that come WITH the MIDI instruments. In a way I've been lazy, and "mastering as I go"...which is a horrible habit. But I want the RICHNESS of sound as I'm mixing. Bad 20 year habit.

And when I throw the entire Ozone Suite on the MASTERING CHAIN, forget it. My computer wants no part of it. But it's a habit I have to stop. I should be doing songs in baby steps, they way they're supposed to be done. Getting it right, and then getting it right, in mastering stage. I go for it all in one pass too much. I gotta start over and get Ozone out of my strips and chains until the end.
Neutron is really the software made for channel strips and inserts like you're using the breakout modules in Ozone Advanced, but that's not to say you won't still get latency depending on how you use said modules. That said, the breakout modules in Ozone Advanced are just as capable, just made a little different.

Your CPU is only slightly faster than my old 8 year old 3770K, and I'm able to use Ozone 9 Advanced on my mastering chain (as the last item in the chain) as well as Neutron 3 Advanced on most of my channel strips, but I usually bounce all of my tracks to audio stems to mix and master which saves a ton of CPU. Are you bouncing to audio stems during your process or are you doing this all with instantiated plugins and RE's in your session?


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GRB
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Post 13 Feb 2020

I didn't see If you mentioned to have an SSD drive. I know you've asked for RAM advice but it seems important to mention that using SSD over an HDD is a HUGE improvement.

I've changed from 16GB to 24GB (real memory, not Optane trick) and Reason works the same, nevertheless using virtual machine was a whole different world with 24GB RAM.

If its a matter of money invested on improving performance I'll go for the SSD instead of RAM.
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KevTav
Posts: 213
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Post 13 Feb 2020

EnochLight wrote:
13 Feb 2020
KevTav wrote:
13 Feb 2020
Are you bouncing to audio stems during your process or are you doing this all with instantiated plugins and RE's in your session?
I usually run the RE and plugins, even the automation. I don't bounce until everything is set for pre master, then on to 2 track master in Ozone STANDALONE. Maybe I should bounce more and earlier to speed things up.
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TheDragonborg
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Post 17 Feb 2020

I get huge latency when I use Ozone Elements (I got it for free on Plugin Boutique) and I have a Core i7 8700k hex core running at 4.8Ghz... lol

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