Features in other DAWs [Comparison]

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

________________________________________________

CONTENT UPDATE: 4:20AM GREENWICH MEAN TIME 12 FEB 2020

1. I have redacted parts of the opening post in the hope of remaining unbiased, or 'favoring/unfavoring' the DAW I'm most familiar with. I have therefore temporarily removed 'Reason' as the list of DAWs in this discussion. The redacted statements have been switched to 'tiny' and the font color changed to white' if anyone wishes to see the original text. Readers can 'unredact' any part if they choose to.

2. Thread title has been changed to "Features in other DAWs [Comparison]" (from "Reason vs Other DAWs [Feature Comparison] )

________________________________________________



In another active topic, I have been comparing features between Reason & Cakewalk. I've just starting compiling this in a checklist form, and am keen to know about other DAWs, and features they have that Reason does not. These are specific to workflow, and focused mostly on the sequencer, console & general stuff, rather than what Reason can do within the rack (which is of course quite unique - but all of what makes Reason special in that regard can now be migrated to any DAW with the advent of 'Reason as VST' format)

So I'm calling on users of other DAWs to help out here. The goal is not to have a "Reason is crap" thread just for the sake of it, rather I want to create a clear side-by-side checklist, which I will eventually send directly to Reason Studios, and be on public record for anyone who wants to see the differences.

What I would request is that you stick to the list first and foremost, and then add a few of your own if you like, with a YES/NO next to each feature. If you're familiar with a few DAWs, stick to features that you think are most likely standard in most other platforms, rather than obscure ones specific to only one DAW. I'm hoping to build a list that shows 'very other DAW has this & that' but Reason does not.

You can copy/Paste the following into a new reply and add a Yes/No after each, and I will update my master spreadsheet


_________ COPY______________

DAW: (name of DAW)

Feature:
Show Note Names on MIDI Notes:
**Horizontal Highlight of Note Lane on Hover:
Insert Markers on Time Ruler:
Custom Metronome Sounds:
Track Freeze:
Adding track notes (for lyrics/song key etc):
Music Scoring / Staff View:
Export to multiple formats (MP3, FLAC, OGG etc):
Custom color picker:
Custom Icons for tracks:
Auto Save:
Stereo / Mono audio track switching:
Ripple Editing:
Clone / Link MIDI clips:
Group MIDI clips:
Video Support:
Punch In/Punch Out:
Mac OS: COMPLETE
Windows OS: COMPLETE

Track Folders:
Undo History:
Strum Feature in Piano Roll:



_________ /COPY______________



It may be idealistic, but being hopeful, I am hoping that a clear and concise list (rather than info scattered around many threads) might eventuate in some real positive change to Reason in the future.

And I will update the original copy/paste text as/if other features are mentioned


Here's where I'm at (will update as more info comes to hand)


>
DAW_compare_1.7.PNG

>

** I think most are self-explanatory, but for the second one on this list. By this I mean when you hover in the sequencer (or piano roll in other DAWS), that note lane is highlighted back to the piano graphic that usually resides as vertical left.
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Last edited by Proboscis on 14 Feb 2020, edited 12 times in total.

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

If you folks think basic video editing/syncing should be on the list, say so. I've omitted it on purpose because I'm of the mind that this is getting into features that are not related to music making, and don't think RS need to allocate development resources to it when there are so many other shortcomings. But there are some argument in it's favor, since YouTube is the largest distribution portal on the planet used by the most people, and a critical part of musicians getting their music to the world - and it requires a video format for upload, even if it's a 'still' artwork. If this were a vote, I would vote 'no'.

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orthodox
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Post 11 Feb 2020

On Stereo/Mono, don't we have the 'Width' knob on every channel?
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

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selig
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Post 11 Feb 2020

While I think this is certain an interesting idea, it's also worth saying that even without matching the features of most/all other DAWs, I still much prefer Reason for music creation.
In other words, feature lists are important, but actual workflow/inspiration is more important (to me). I don't think there's a way to incorporate "inspiration/feel" into lists such as this, so take everything on (or not on) the lists with a grain of salt. ;)
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selig
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Post 11 Feb 2020

orthodox wrote:
11 Feb 2020
On Stereo/Mono, don't we have the 'Width' knob on every channel?
More importantly, a mono instrument or audio track automatically "switches" between a mono and stereo mixer channel. So I think there SHOULD be a "check" for Reason in that category.
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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

This is a feature suggested by Creativemind in the other thread. And I don't use the stereo width in Reason - does this allow the same outcome ? I'll do a quick test in Reason. But if you think it's unfair to have this on the list I've made, I'm happy to remove it. Your call, guys & girls :thumbs_up:

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

selig wrote:
11 Feb 2020
While I think this is certain an interesting idea, it's also worth saying that even without matching the features of most/all other DAWs, I still much prefer Reason for music creation.
In other words, feature lists are important, but actual workflow/inspiration is more important (to me). I don't think there's a way to incorporate "inspiration/feel" into lists such as this, so take everything on (or not on) the lists with a grain of salt. ;)
Yes I agree, and for the moment, Reason is most familiar to me, so therefore the default 'go to'. I'm attempting to take bias out of this and stick to yes/no for features. And nothing on the list relates to 'inspiration/feel'. This isn't another popularity contest poll, music radar just published one of those. :lol:

Jmax
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Post 11 Feb 2020

I really wish Reason had the ability to right click hold and zoom in and out on the timeline area. Like every major DAW. We are forced to resize the little rectangle at the button which takes so much added time. Yes you can zoom in and out with the keys but this often is too big or too small and ends up in the wrong position. A real time waster.

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

selig wrote:
11 Feb 2020
More importantly, a mono instrument or audio track automatically "switches" between a mono and stereo mixer channel. So I think there SHOULD be a "check" for Reason in that category.
Done, thanks :thumbs_up:

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orthodox
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
11 Feb 2020
selig wrote:
11 Feb 2020
While I think this is certain an interesting idea, it's also worth saying that even without matching the features of most/all other DAWs, I still much prefer Reason for music creation.
In other words, feature lists are important, but actual workflow/inspiration is more important (to me). I don't think there's a way to incorporate "inspiration/feel" into lists such as this, so take everything on (or not on) the lists with a grain of salt. ;)
Yes I agree, and for the moment, Reason is most familiar to me, so therefore the default 'go to'. I'm attempting to take bias out of this and stick to yes/no for features. And nothing on the list relates to 'inspiration/feel'. This isn't another popularity contest poll, music radar just published one of those. :lol:
Just listing features would not be based on real needs. There are many features i can live without. The question could be about the features that make people choose some other DAW. I, for instance, don't like Reason's 'SSL' mixer and choose Cakewalk.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

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orthodox
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Jmax wrote:
11 Feb 2020
I really wish Reason had the ability to right click hold and zoom in and out on the timeline area. Like every major DAW. We are forced to resize the little rectangle at the button which takes so much added time. Yes you can zoom in and out with the keys but this often is too big or too small and ends up in the wrong position. A real time waster.
I use Shift-Ctrl (must be Shift-Command on Mac) with mouse wheel to zoom the timeline.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

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aeox
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Adding track notes (for lyrics/song key etc):
Image

:D

Those free RE would be better anyway, but it's there stock :thumbs_up:
Image

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Jmax wrote:
11 Feb 2020
I really wish Reason had the ability to right click hold and zoom in and out on the timeline area. Like every major DAW. We are forced to resize the little rectangle at the button which takes so much added time. Yes you can zoom in and out with the keys but this often is too big or too small and ends up in the wrong position. A real time waster.
There's a two-click feature I discovered in Cakewalk called 'Fit MIDI Content' that might work towards better focus of the current area, especially when notes are several octaves apart. I omitted this from my list as it's such a core part of the infrastructure & design, and I also didn't really know how to express it in a few words for the checklist. Reason has always felt 'all over the place' for navigation to me.

And I've used Reaper, where ctrl+ (I think) + mousewheel is a brilliant zoom horizontally from where the playhead is located. It feels very intuitive, despite me having 'racked up' many thousands more hours as a Reason user than a Reaper user. I can't comment on Cakewalk since I haven't had much real - situation exposure to date (that is, using it in a project)

If some other contributors to this thread feel the same about the feature you are speaking of, I'm happy to add it to the list. Bear in mind, this isn't intended to be yet another feature request thread (although it will ultimately serve a similar purpose), but a straight up comparison - so you might want to suggest to me how you want me to express it on the table so it's widely understood.

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

aeox wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Image
Those free RE would be better anyway, but it's there stock :thumbs_up:
Sure, as a 'hack'. We can even argue that markers can be achieved with blocks. That is, until you want to use Block for their intended purpose. And adding tags to clips, what if I wanted to add the notes of a scale + lyrics, one needs to zoom so far horizontally that it's crazy for practical usage.

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

orthodox wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Just listing features would not be based on real needs. There are many features i can live without. The question could be about the features that make people choose some other DAW. I, for instance, don't like Reason's 'SSL' mixer and choose Cakewalk.
And as such the list is not based on 'needs'. Nor is it based on 'personal preferences'. Its based on 'features yes/no', that's it.

I'm not imploring anyone to work in a different way, nor to use another DAW.

Don't feel a desire to have an expanded color palette ? That's fine, I'm not asking you to justify why a color picker is better/worse/no difference. only to determine if other DAWs have it.

I'm not sure I need to explain this over and over, but ... this is not a popularity contest ! It is a feature comparison list, nothing more, nothing less. :thumbs_up: Does DAW 'x' have feature 'x' - yes/no.

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aeox
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
11 Feb 2020
aeox wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Image
Those free RE would be better anyway, but it's there stock :thumbs_up:
Sure, as a 'hack'. We can even argue that markers can be achieved with blocks. That is, until you want to use Block for their intended purpose. And adding tags to clips, what if I wanted to add the notes of a scale + lyrics, one needs to zoom so far horizontally that it's crazy for practical usage.
So that's a check right? Like you said, it's not a popularity contest you're just trying to see which DAWs have what features. EDIT: Well I guess it's intended for "labeling" things but works either way :)
Last edited by aeox on 11 Feb 2020, edited 1 time in total.
Image

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orthodox
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
11 Feb 2020
I'm not sure I need to explain this over and over, but ... this is not a popularity contest ! It is a feature comparison list, nothing more, nothing less. :thumbs_up: Does DAW 'x' have feature 'x' - yes/no.
I'm just questioning the value of that kind of a survey, especially considering that you're going to present the list to RS. What would be the reasoning behind that? Other DAWs have this or that feature, so what?
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

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selig
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
11 Feb 2020
selig wrote:
11 Feb 2020
While I think this is certain an interesting idea, it's also worth saying that even without matching the features of most/all other DAWs, I still much prefer Reason for music creation.
In other words, feature lists are important, but actual workflow/inspiration is more important (to me). I don't think there's a way to incorporate "inspiration/feel" into lists such as this, so take everything on (or not on) the lists with a grain of salt. ;)
Yes I agree, and for the moment, Reason is most familiar to me, so therefore the default 'go to'. I'm attempting to take bias out of this and stick to yes/no for features. And nothing on the list relates to 'inspiration/feel'. This isn't another popularity contest poll, music radar just published one of those. :lol:
Maybe I wasn't clear - feature lists don't tell you how USEFUL a feature will be, or how clunky it is implemented. To put it another way, feature lists only tell you what an app/product is SUPPOSED to do, not how elegantly or fluidly it does it. This is an important aspect of how a products works for me, and my point is that over time I've noticed I put this quality over a feature list when comparing products.
Case in point, Reason accomplishes supporting both mono and stereo audio paths without having to have a specific menu/feature to do so, which makes it even SIMPLER to work with this aspect of audio. This is not something that would be obvious by comparing features in a list, and the absence of this appearing in a menu makes it appear Reason can't do this, when in fact it does it better than DAWs that require you to choose mono or stereo when creating a new channel/track.
And of course, this has nothing to do with popularity.
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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

selig wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Maybe I wasn't clear - feature lists don't tell you how USEFUL a feature will be, or how clunky it is implemented.
Yes, I agree. It's whether there's a feature that does this (whether claimed by a menu position or other direct means) or not - not how well a feature is implemented, which obviously requires more specific investigation. I can take my Toyota onto a race track and do some laps, but it will never be a race car. But if I were comparing current model hatchbacks and making a list, it would get a checkmark against 'engine' (side note - this is a good feature for a car to have if you're in the market)

Yes I know, some smartypants will come back and tell me that in the 'engine' row a comparison chart would probably have the engine size rather than if it has an engine. So here's the beginnings of an unrelated new chart ...


>
analogy.PNG


>


selig wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Case in point, Reason accomplishes supporting both mono and stereo audio paths without having to have a specific menu/feature to do so, which makes it even SIMPLER to work with this aspect of audio. This is not something that would be obvious by comparing features in a list, and the absence of this appearing in a menu makes it appear Reason can't do this, when in fact it does it better than DAWs that require you to choose mono or stereo when creating a new channel/track.
Sure, and immediately upon reading your post and that of orthodox, I updated the screenshot in the OP, AND I replied to your post with a 'done, thanks'. I've no doubt about your response, and have made amendments accordingly. There's nothing for me to gain by ignoring your contributions, and everything to gain (because I learn something that's going to save me time, compared to how I would usually make a mono track). So again, thanks. The list reflects your solution.

Makes no difference if you were right and I was wrong. IMO this isn't about right or wrong. It was a correction that was required, and that was done some time before your latest post. Not sure how many more collective words need to be exchanged from this point on, regarding that.

It should also be noted that, for the features I have outlined (not the ones I haven't), over 90% of that list are things that are NOT possible in Reason, no matter which way you look at it. Even *if* we were to go with the messy hacks, such as making notes on each clip as being a substitute for a proper native notepad, and say that time markers can be achieved by using the block marker regions (and to be clear, I don;t consider them comparable solution in all but the most desperate of cases), that leaves 80% of what I have proffered as being absent from Reason, to which there is no alternative, however clunky.
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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

aeox wrote:
11 Feb 2020
So that's a check right? Like you said, it's not a popularity contest you're just trying to see which DAWs have what features. EDIT: Well I guess it's intended for "labeling" things but works either way :)
IMO, no, that is not a 'check'. This function is for labelling sections, that's the only practical usage. Not even Propellerheads tried to claim it's anything other than that, since the menu items is called "Add Labels to Clips".

However to humor you, I put some lines of a verse (to a song I wrote a long time ago). And when I zoom enough just to read the contents, it doesn't even let me see as far into the song as the first chorus. Not really practical for adding lyrics, not to mention verse/chorus/bridge key/chord information. And if you wanted to copy/paste those lyrics/key/chord info to a document, well you're in for a huge nightmare since every line populates a different clip, because you're required to go into each cell one-by-one

>
reason_lables_01.PNG

>

As for using third party RE's. That's not a function of Reason, but a function of a developer plugin.. And to make a comparison to Jiggery-Pokery's TM9 (which I assume you are referring to) you would need two instances to display a maximum 37 lines of text before requiring the need to scroll. In their closed state you have lost 2U of space in the rack. And.. it's not native. Compared to Cakewalk, it's a dedicated pop-out window that's retrievable from right within where you are working, accessible in two mouse clicks, holds 57 lines of text readable on screen at once, and possibly limitless (ok ok there must be a limit somewhere, but I don't need to find it), where when 57 lines are reached, a scroll bar appears next to the window. It should also be stated that you cannot copy your text set in one action from TM9.

And we can dissect 'native vs not native' forever. I would have assumed that such a feature comparison list examines native devices, otherwise the discussion becomes an endless pit. We aren't comparing third party plugins. What if I proclaimed "I CAN SHOW YOU ALL HOW TO GET A 100% AUTHENTIC SERUM SOUND FROM REASON.... ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS INSTALL SERUM ! "
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aeox
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
11 Feb 2020
aeox wrote:
11 Feb 2020
So that's a check right? Like you said, it's not a popularity contest you're just trying to see which DAWs have what features. EDIT: Well I guess it's intended for "labeling" things but works either way :)
IMO, no, that is not a 'check'. This function is for labelling sections, that's the only practical usage. Not even Propellerheads tried to claim it's anything other than that, since the menu items is called "Add Labels to Clips".

However to humor you, I put some lines of a verse (to a song I wrote a long time ago). And when I zoom enough just to read the contents, it doesn't even let me see as far into the song as the first chorus. Not really practical for adding lyrics, not to mention verse/chorus/bridge key/chord information. And if you wanted to copy/paste those lyrics/key/chord info to a document, well you're in for a huge nightmare since every line populates a different clip, because you're required to go into each cell one-by-one

>

reason_lables_01.PNG


>

As for using third party RE's. That's not a function of Reason, but a function of a developer plugin.. And to make a comparison to Jiggery-Pokery's TM9 (which I assume you are referring to) you would need two instances to display a maximum 37 lines of text before requiring the need to scroll. In their closed state you have lost 2U of space in the rack. And.. it's not native. Compared to Cakewalk, it's a dedicated pop-out window that's retrievable from right within where you are working, accessible in two mouse clicks, holds 57 lines of text readable on screen at once, and possibly limitless (ok ok there must be a limit somewhere, but I don't need to find it), where when 57 lines are reached, a scroll bar appears next to the window. It should also be stated that you cannot copy your text set in one action from TM9.

And we can dissect 'native vs not native' forever. I would have assumed that such a feature comparison list examines native devices, otherwise the discussion becomes an endless pit. We aren't comparing third party plugins. What if I proclaimed "I CAN SHOW YOU ALL HOW TO GET A 100% AUTHENTIC SERUM SOUND FROM REASON.... ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS INSTALL SERUM ! "
Works for me but I'm not working with lyrics so I can see how you want something like a notepad.

It's ok for little notes and stuff
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aeox
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Seems like Cubase has the features you want in a DAW, you can use Reason Rack in it and everything. What do you hope to accomplish by comparing these DAWS? You said you already know 90% of the features are lacking in Reason
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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Can you achieve ANYTHING like a notepad in native Reason ? Well sure, if we allow for a serious compensation towards 'elegance & fluidity' as suggested by Selig when comparing features. Let's compare:

In Reason's 'Song Information window. You can hold 18 lines of text, and it doesn't have a 'scroll' once that limit is reached. Although it does take more lines, the clunky hack scroll would be to place your cursor and arrow down. Bit of a hassle when scrolling back up.

And the horizontal space is limited. If any single lyrical line exceeds 42 characters, then that single song line will take up two vertical spaces.

Plus, when that window is active in Reason, it completely disables any other functions. You cannot even press stop/start. You're locked into looking at that window until you close it, go back to the part of the song you want to re-do, open the window again (you'll have to pre-plan that, because when you hit play and then menu dive for it, the part will be over again)

I'm even happy to entertain this as a check, of course with the HUGE caveat that selig discussed as a general comment. You can make track, project & lyrics notes in Reason, it's just implemented very, very badly.

I'll update the list to reflect notes as a 'check' for Reason , both because of the 'Song Information' window and the rather sketchy suggestion about using labels for notes

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

aeox wrote:
11 Feb 2020
It's ok for little notes and stuff
There's term for 'little notes' . That word is 'Labels'. :lol: :lol: :lol:


>
xyz.PNG
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aeox
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
11 Feb 2020
aeox wrote:
11 Feb 2020
It's ok for little notes and stuff
There's term for 'little notes' . That word is 'Labels'. :lol: :lol: :lol:


>
xyz.PNG
It's not about using less syllables it's about how something rolls off the tongue, ya know? Little notes and stuff :D
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