Audio Interface for External Equipment

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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Brosefski
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Joined: 08 Oct 2018
Location: Up north somewhere

11 Jan 2020

Hello! This post is to garner the opinions of those knowledgeable folks (there are some people here that reallly know their stuff :) ) who can steer me in a good direction here.

I'm looking for opinions on what you think is a great external audio device, that doesn't piledrive my checkbook and that has the following core functionality I'm looking for:

-Able to send midi to an external synth
- Able to put that synth back into it as a separate audio device
- Able to hook 3-5+ instruments simultaneously
- Able to function as master audio out from the computer to my small mixer that's connected to my monitors

What I currently have: I recently got the Scarlett Solo USB audio interface. It works great for my purposes so far and I'm glad I got it but I don't think it'll go all that far and I'll grow out of it kinda quickly. Initially I got it because I have a guitar and Model D synth but I know I'll be getting more hardware to interface into Reason and I realized that even though I can use it for essentially one instrument at a time, I'll have to manually hook up other stuff to it and switch things out as time goes on and I think this will decrease my creative time. I'd like an interface that allows for several channels, conceivably playing multiple sources at once into separate recordable audio tracks in Reason. Kinda like a mixing board only it's really just throughput for your external devices to go into your DAW. I don't want a large mixing board and I'm not looking at hooking up external effects either, just synth straight to DAW.

So what's tried and true? I was looking at NI's Komplete audio interface, but I think that's dated. Presonus looks good but I don't think it's quite what I want. I appreciate your feedback!
:reason: :recycle: :re:

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Oquasec
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11 Jan 2020

anything with midi jacks.
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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EnochLight
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12 Jan 2020

Brosefski wrote:
11 Jan 2020
Hello! This post is to garner the opinions of those knowledgeable folks (there are some people here that reallly know their stuff :) ) who can steer me in a good direction here.

I'm looking for opinions on what you think is a great external audio device, that doesn't piledrive my checkbook and that has the following core functionality I'm looking for:

-Able to send midi to an external synth
- Able to put that synth back into it as a separate audio device
- Able to hook 3-5+ instruments simultaneously
- Able to function as master audio out from the computer to my small mixer that's connected to my monitors

What I currently have: I recently got the Scarlett Solo USB audio interface. It works great for my purposes so far and I'm glad I got it but I don't think it'll go all that far and I'll grow out of it kinda quickly. Initially I got it because I have a guitar and Model D synth but I know I'll be getting more hardware to interface into Reason and I realized that even though I can use it for essentially one instrument at a time, I'll have to manually hook up other stuff to it and switch things out as time goes on and I think this will decrease my creative time. I'd like an interface that allows for several channels, conceivably playing multiple sources at once into separate recordable audio tracks in Reason. Kinda like a mixing board only it's really just throughput for your external devices to go into your DAW. I don't want a large mixing board and I'm not looking at hooking up external effects either, just synth straight to DAW.

So what's tried and true? I was looking at NI's Komplete audio interface, but I think that's dated. Presonus looks good but I don't think it's quite what I want. I appreciate your feedback!
First things first: what’s your budget? Impossible to make recommendations if we don’t know what your target and ceiling price is. You clearly need something more than just “anything with MIDI jacks”.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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bxbrkrz
Posts: 3810
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

12 Jan 2020

Brosefski wrote:
11 Jan 2020
Hello! This post is to garner the opinions of those knowledgeable folks (there are some people here that reallly know their stuff :) ) who can steer me in a good direction here.

I'm looking for opinions on what you think is a great external audio device, that doesn't piledrive my checkbook and that has the following core functionality I'm looking for:

-Able to send midi to an external synth
- Able to put that synth back into it as a separate audio device
- Able to hook 3-5+ instruments simultaneously
- Able to function as master audio out from the computer to my small mixer that's connected to my monitors

What I currently have: I recently got the Scarlett Solo USB audio interface. It works great for my purposes so far and I'm glad I got it but I don't think it'll go all that far and I'll grow out of it kinda quickly. Initially I got it because I have a guitar and Model D synth but I know I'll be getting more hardware to interface into Reason and I realized that even though I can use it for essentially one instrument at a time, I'll have to manually hook up other stuff to it and switch things out as time goes on and I think this will decrease my creative time. I'd like an interface that allows for several channels, conceivably playing multiple sources at once into separate recordable audio tracks in Reason. Kinda like a mixing board only it's really just throughput for your external devices to go into your DAW. I don't want a large mixing board and I'm not looking at hooking up external effects either, just synth straight to DAW.

So what's tried and true? I was looking at NI's Komplete audio interface, but I think that's dated. Presonus looks good but I don't think it's quite what I want. I appreciate your feedback!
5 synths/instruments, 5 mono or 10 channels max. Midi. Low latency. Small footprint. Cheap.
https://www.behringer.com/Categories/Be ... ans(en|en)
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572

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Brosefski
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12 Jan 2020

EnochLight wrote:
12 Jan 2020
First things first: what’s your budget? Impossible to make recommendations if we don’t know what your target and ceiling price is. You clearly need something more than just “anything with MIDI jacks”.
My budget would prefer $500 or under, but absolute limit would be $1000. I am looking forward to what you have in mind.

As far as the MIDI comment, I now expect the first comment of most boards to be a non-answer. lol
:reason: :recycle: :re:

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Brosefski
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12 Jan 2020

bxbrkrz wrote:
12 Jan 2020
5 synths/instruments, 5 mono or 10 channels max. Midi. Low latency. Small footprint. Cheap.
https://www.behringer.com/Categories/Be ... ans(en|en)
This is very promising. This looks really close to what I want. I originally thought that this may not have the capacity to control multiple midi instruments at once using the DAW, but this could be my error since there's a USB input. If it's possible to assign separate midi's to each channel through the DAW then this is perfect.

I remember when Behringer had such a shit reputation especially with their mixers. They've come such a long way it seems because their product quality has really gone up.
:reason: :recycle: :re:

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bxbrkrz
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12 Jan 2020

Brosefski wrote:
12 Jan 2020
bxbrkrz wrote:
12 Jan 2020
5 synths/instruments, 5 mono or 10 channels max. Midi. Low latency. Small footprint. Cheap.
https://www.behringer.com/Categories/Be ... ans(en|en)
This is very promising. This looks really close to what I want. I originally thought that this may not have the capacity to control multiple midi instruments at once using the DAW, but this could be my error since there's a USB input. If it's possible to assign separate midi's to each channel through the DAW then this is perfect.

I remember when Behringer had such a shit reputation especially with their mixers. They've come such a long way it seems because their product quality has really gone up.
Get it from a place you can return it without issues, amazon prime or your local music store. The one thing that made me not buy one (smaller version) was, back then, a lack of an audio loopback option. Maybe something you should check out, if needed.
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572

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Brosefski
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Location: Up north somewhere

12 Jan 2020

bxbrkrz wrote:
12 Jan 2020
Get it from a place you can return it without issues, amazon prime or your local music store. The one thing that made me not buy one (smaller version) was, back then, a lack of an audio loopback option. Maybe something you should check out, if needed.
What option did you end up going with?

I'm fine with recording directly into the DAW though. After looking up some reviews on youtube, the main audio from the computer is going back out into the rack for main out to my monitors. Great! I can just use the DAW to playback the sound from the synth and use the interface that I'm connected to to do that. I'm able to hook up my guitar, check. Multi simultaneous midi control from the DAW, check. Multichannel recording ability, check. It passes for me. Looks great, seems exactly what I'm looking for... but that Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 is pretty damn sexy too and not that much more. I'm looking at the competition in this range currently to see what else is there. I think you nailed what I'm looking for though. :thumbs_up:
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EnochLight
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12 Jan 2020

Brosefski wrote:
12 Jan 2020
My budget would prefer $500 or under, but absolute limit would be $1000. I am looking forward to what you have in mind.

As far as the MIDI comment, I now expect the first comment of most boards to be a non-answer. lol
That Behringer that bxbrkrz mentioned is a solid option - they've come along way in quality since the 90's/early 2000's. For me, I'm a diehard RME fan, so it's hard for me not to recommend a Babyface Pro, but for your needs you'd likely need to add on a Behringer ADA8200, and between an RME Babyface Pro and a Behringer ADA8200, you'd be north of $1000 USD.

If you can shop from Sweetwater in the US, their return policy is awesome (30 days, no hassle) and they back up most everything they sell with a 2 year warranty. I'd try that Behringer UMC1820 a try and see if it works for you. I just can't find anything in-depth regarding how its latency performance is in any particular DAW, especially Reason. With RME, their latency performance is industry leading.

Given the options, I'd jump on that Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen instead.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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bxbrkrz
Posts: 3810
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12 Jan 2020

Brosefski wrote:
12 Jan 2020
bxbrkrz wrote:
12 Jan 2020
Get it from a place you can return it without issues, amazon prime or your local music store. The one thing that made me not buy one (smaller version) was, back then, a lack of an audio loopback option. Maybe something you should check out, if needed.
What option did you end up going with?

I'm fine with recording directly into the DAW though. After looking up some reviews on youtube, the main audio from the computer is going back out into the rack for main out to my monitors. Great! I can just use the DAW to playback the sound from the synth and use the interface that I'm connected to to do that. I'm able to hook up my guitar, check. Multi simultaneous midi control from the DAW, check. Multichannel recording ability, check. It passes for me. Looks great, seems exactly what I'm looking for... but that Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 is pretty damn sexy too and not that much more. I'm looking at the competition in this range currently to see what else is there. I think you nailed what I'm looking for though. :thumbs_up:
Focusrite. Behringer. You need to find out what's bad about them: hardware and drivers.
RME Digiface USB: all I need is a bulletproof, immortal driver and one solid analog output, with room to grow with the 4 ADAT I/Os.

And yes: it is painful to suggest anything else than buying RME, I agree.
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572

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Brosefski
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12 Jan 2020

EnochLight wrote:
12 Jan 2020
Given the options, I'd jump on that Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen instead.
I looked up the RME. They have some very nice very high end audio equipment like the fireface ufx which of course is like 3k. XD yeah a bit above my pay grade. I COULD buy that but I'd have to eat rice and beans for a couple months. I want to keep my big buys on the synths. I want a sub phatty moog and the voyager but the voyager is like 5k. So, I guess when I retire I'll buy the damn thing. lol

The focusrite scarlett is looking REAL good. But I don't think it's powered by USB and I'm not sure if it's able to internally switch the voltage when pulling a geographic like going to a different country. A lot of high end equipment does that but these are cheap enough where that might not be a feature.

Circle back to the RME, I do like it's high portability a lot. I would likely have to tack on something later if I were to go that route because of my synth goals, as you have pointed out. It does look really good too. I have decent options now. I really appreciate your guys' opinion on this. This gives me a lot to go off of.
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pushedbutton
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12 Jan 2020

The Scarlet isn't powered by USB?
Oh fuck, I'd better plug mine in then...hey wait a minute.
@pushedbutton on twitter, add me, send me a message, but don't try to sell me stuff cos I'm skint.
Using Reason since version 3 and still never finished a song.

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Brosefski
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12 Jan 2020

pushedbutton wrote:
12 Jan 2020
The Scarlet isn't powered by USB?
Oh fuck, I'd better plug mine in then...hey wait a minute.
Is it the 18i20 3rd Gen? The spec for it says it's standard AC adaptor powered. It could possibly be powered by the USB-C type, if it does that would be great.
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pushedbutton
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12 Jan 2020

Oh well in that case I'm pretty sure you can plug any old IEC cable into into it to power it. It has a built in switching transformer so I'm pretty sure you'll be fine hopping countries with it.
@pushedbutton on twitter, add me, send me a message, but don't try to sell me stuff cos I'm skint.
Using Reason since version 3 and still never finished a song.

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Brosefski
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13 Jan 2020

pushedbutton wrote:
12 Jan 2020
Oh well in that case I'm pretty sure you can plug any old IEC cable into into it to power it. It has a built in switching transformer so I'm pretty sure you'll be fine hopping countries with it.
If it has the built in transformer for changing voltage then I'm good to go. That's what I'm most likely to buy then. The behringer is a close second with the RME. The RME Fireface UCX USB for $1600 also is a close contender but I'd have to save a little more to get that. I'm going to do some more analysis on the RME before I make a final decision.
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DJMaytag
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15 Jan 2020

Brosefski wrote:
12 Jan 2020
EnochLight wrote:
12 Jan 2020
First things first: what’s your budget? Impossible to make recommendations if we don’t know what your target and ceiling price is. You clearly need something more than just “anything with MIDI jacks”.
My budget would prefer $500 or under, but absolute limit would be $1000. I am looking forward to what you have in mind.

As far as the MIDI comment, I now expect the first comment of most boards to be a non-answer. lol
I got tired of upgrading/changing out interfaces, as well as got sick of having to reroute my I/O cabling in Reason, so I decided to never do it again.

I bought a RME Digiface USB (retails for $449) and is a pocket sized 32-in/34-out audio interface. It's completely reliant on external ADAT connected preamp devices, but those can be swapped out at will without changing anything in Reason or in your computer setup. I have a pair of Behringer ADA8200's for now, but will upgrade those to something better down the road (possibly something in the high end of the Focusrite range).

All in for the 2x ADA8200's and the Digiface USB set me back about $600-650 for 16-in/16-out (plus the stereo pair output on the Digiface USB itself).

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EnochLight
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15 Jan 2020

DJMaytag wrote:
15 Jan 2020
I got tired of upgrading/changing out interfaces, as well as got sick of having to reroute my I/O cabling in Reason, so I decided to never do it again.

I bought a RME Digiface USB (retails for $449) and is a pocket sized 32-in/34-out audio interface. It's completely reliant on external ADAT connected preamp devices, but those can be swapped out at will without changing anything in Reason or in your computer setup. I have a pair of Behringer ADA8200's for now, but will upgrade those to something better down the road (possibly something in the high end of the Focusrite range).

All in for the 2x ADA8200's and the Digiface USB set me back about $600-650 for 16-in/16-out (plus the stereo pair output on the Digiface USB itself).
That was a smart approach - nice! You also got TotalMix as the interface, right? There's no built-in effects via monitoring, is there?

I take it the Behringer ADA8200's play nice with the RME Digiface? They 8200's have long been on my radar to add i/o to my Babyface Pro.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

DJMaytag
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15 Jan 2020

I added an ADA8200 to my previous interface to get more inputs, so I already had one on hand when I bought the Digiface.

TotalMix is sort of a mixing console, but no, there’s no built in FX like there are on other RME devices. I have two scenes set up, 1 for fully DAW-less (TotalMix software is my mixer then), and 1 for using the ADA8200’s with Reason (audio is routed straight to Reason).

Other than making sure you’ve got the clocks synced up, the Digiface USB doesn’t care if you’ve got a $200 ADA8200 or a crazy $10K ADAT-based preamp. That’s the beauty of this setup, that I can swap in a new preamp box in the middle of a project, and nothing has to be reconfigured in Reason.

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EnochLight
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15 Jan 2020

DJMaytag wrote:
15 Jan 2020
and 1 for using the ADA8200’s with Reason (audio is routed straight to Reason).
Cool. How's the latency? Still RME's legendary rock solid and low?
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

DJMaytag
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15 Jan 2020

Yeah, it’s rock solid. I think I usually run it down towards something like 7ms, even with a pretty full project.

I use one of the 4 ADAT outputs to connect to an Expert Sleepers ES-3 rig, so my external hardware has sample-accurate sync and note data.

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Brosefski
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16 Jan 2020

DJMaytag wrote:
15 Jan 2020
I got tired of upgrading/changing out interfaces, as well as got sick of having to reroute my I/O cabling in Reason, so I decided to never do it again.

I bought a RME Digiface USB (retails for $449) and is a pocket sized 32-in/34-out audio interface. It's completely reliant on external ADAT connected preamp devices, but those can be swapped out at will without changing anything in Reason or in your computer setup. I have a pair of Behringer ADA8200's for now, but will upgrade those to something better down the road (possibly something in the high end of the Focusrite range).

All in for the 2x ADA8200's and the Digiface USB set me back about $600-650 for 16-in/16-out (plus the stereo pair output on the Digiface USB itself).
Ok, I'm starting to go down this rabbit hole looking up RME and supported protocols. Your solution helps bring this into focus. For one it sounds like you have a solid setup. Really love that idea that you can switch out ADAT devices behind your interface without reconfiguring your DAW. This is a big deal. Excellent example of abstraction and decoupling. Secondly I'm looking at your choice of ADAT vs MADI or Dante. If I decide to go with RME then I want to go in and get something I can grow into for some years. So it may be important for me to choose which digital audio conversion protocol I want to stick with. This is getting interesting and your solution appears sound. :thumbs_up:
:reason: :recycle: :re:

DJMaytag
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17 Jan 2020

One BIG thing with RME is continued driver support for legacy hardware. I was seriously looking at a Mackie ONYX mixer with audio interface (over FireWire), but Mackie dropped driver support a few years ago! RME sold me on that aspect, so I’m not worried about the Digiface USB becoming obsolete anytime soon. USB 2.0 is perfectly fine for the bandwidth of 32-in/34-out.

If you want to go MADI/AVB, it can get a bit more complicated, and DEFINITELY more expensive. If I ever ended up massively expanding my hardware setup, I’d consider a MADIface USB and ADI-648 (MADI to ADAT converter, for 8 pairs of ADAT in & out). That’s a solution that’s 3-4x more $$$$ to double my channels though, not including all the extra ADAT preamps needed!

I’m not expecting to ever see a need for more than 32-in, so the Digiface USB will be a nice long term solution for me.

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bxbrkrz
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17 Jan 2020

Brosefski wrote:
11 Jan 2020
Hello! This post is to garner the opinions of those knowledgeable folks (there are some people here that reallly know their stuff :) ) who can steer me in a good direction here.

I'm looking for opinions on what you think is a great external audio device, that doesn't piledrive my checkbook and that has the following core functionality I'm looking for:

-Able to send midi to an external synth
- Able to put that synth back into it as a separate audio device
- Able to hook 3-5+ instruments simultaneously
- Able to function as master audio out from the computer to my small mixer that's connected to my monitors

What I currently have: I recently got the Scarlett Solo USB audio interface. It works great for my purposes so far and I'm glad I got it but I don't think it'll go all that far and I'll grow out of it kinda quickly. Initially I got it because I have a guitar and Model D synth but I know I'll be getting more hardware to interface into Reason and I realized that even though I can use it for essentially one instrument at a time, I'll have to manually hook up other stuff to it and switch things out as time goes on and I think this will decrease my creative time. I'd like an interface that allows for several channels, conceivably playing multiple sources at once into separate recordable audio tracks in Reason. Kinda like a mixing board only it's really just throughput for your external devices to go into your DAW. I don't want a large mixing board and I'm not looking at hooking up external effects either, just synth straight to DAW.

So what's tried and true? I was looking at NI's Komplete audio interface, but I think that's dated. Presonus looks good but I don't think it's quite what I want. I appreciate your feedback!
Your list is a reminder to yourself. Dante/MADI/AVB solution. Do you need 256 channels @192 kHz running on extremely long ethernet cables, across multiple rooms now?
Only you can answer that question :)
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572

dezma
Posts: 268
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17 Jan 2020

Brosefski wrote:
12 Jan 2020
pushedbutton wrote:
12 Jan 2020
The Scarlet isn't powered by USB?
Oh fuck, I'd better plug mine in then...hey wait a minute.
Is it the 18i20 3rd Gen? The spec for it says it's standard AC adaptor powered. It could possibly be powered by the USB-C type, if it does that would be great.
As far as I understood it was only bus powered up to the 4i4

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Brosefski
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18 Jan 2020

bxbrkrz wrote:
17 Jan 2020
Your list is a reminder to yourself. Dante/MADI/AVB solution. Do you need 256 channels @192 kHz running on extremely long ethernet cables, across multiple rooms now?
Only you can answer that question :)
That's true. When I was looking at this and researching a bit, I found people's opinion on ADAT being "rinkydinky" and somewhat unreliable. Without context I guess it's hard discern exactly what they meant by this but the going word is exactly what you said here, how big is your room? A huge ass cathedral or something? I don't need Dante/MADI solution but if ADAT had it's vulnerabilities maybe I should consider it? Those were the questions I had when I was looking at these protocols. For small rooms and a rig of a few synths I think it's overkill and ADAT appears fine and reliable in smaller spaces. I think these people were just dealing with big rigs. :thumbs_up:
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