what are the best other DAWs to consider?

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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guitfnky
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Post 26 Aug 2019

zoidkirb wrote:
26 Aug 2019
Find a good deal on a launchpad. That way you get a Live lite license, and a proper way to control session mode. Live/Reason rack seems to be endorsed by Matthias himself so you'd be in good company. Even if you ends up hating Live, the launchpad could still be used as a generic midi controller, or you could sell it quite easily.
I actually have one, and learned that I don’t really like Live or the Launchpad as a controller. 😆

fretshot7
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Post 26 Aug 2019

I allways confused the two of these.
studio one the clear winner:

https://www.slant.co/versus/6429/6433/~ ... udio-one-4

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6502
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Post 26 Aug 2019

boingy wrote:
26 Aug 2019
As for the other posts here, and at risk of sounding like a Studio One Zealot, here is what you can do with the Studio One chord track:

1. Type in a few chords (or get S1 to "steal" them from an audio track).
2. Create a midi track and give it some strings or a pad instrument. Fill the track with C chord triads. Just C, nothing else. Any rhythm you like, any duration.
3. Create another track and this time fill it with a bass rhythm, also composed entirely of the note C.
4. Set both of these tracks to "follow" the chord track.
5. Play the song. The triads follow the chord track and the bass line follows the root of the chords.

It's not yet a hit single but it is a musical skeleton upon which you can build your song. It's just so darned quick to get something down. I've got demos where did the above then just recorded a bad hummed vocal over the top. An idea sketched in a few minutes. Most of them stay like that. The odd one get developed further. Oh, and you can change the chords at any time and set the vocal (audio) track to follow too and it will pitch shift the vocals to suit. You wouldn't want to keep the resulting audio but as a "play with chords sequences" thing it's superb.

This is why I'm so frustrated that Reason keeps adding chord devices to the rack instead of implementing chord stuff in the sequencer where it belongs!

I'll shut up now...
That is seriously cool.

fretshot7
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Post 26 Aug 2019

fretshot7 wrote:
26 Aug 2019
I allways confused the two of these.
studio one the clear winner:

https://www.slant.co/versus/6429/6433/~ ... udio-one-4
If Studio One can be rent-to-own it is right at the top of my list...

zoidkirb
Posts: 138
Joined: 18 Nov 2018

Post 26 Aug 2019

guitfnky wrote:
26 Aug 2019
zoidkirb wrote:
26 Aug 2019
Find a good deal on a launchpad. That way you get a Live lite license, and a proper way to control session mode. Live/Reason rack seems to be endorsed by Matthias himself so you'd be in good company. Even if you ends up hating Live, the launchpad could still be used as a generic midi controller, or you could sell it quite easily.
I actually have one, and learned that I don’t really like Live or the Launchpad as a controller. 😆
fair enough. how about cubase? i find that the two have a lot in common as far as shortcuts and general behaviour of the sequencer goes - i find Reason akin to a much simpler/stripped back version of Cubases's sequencer. Ableton Lives sequencer i find to be a big departure from both.

ShawnG
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Post 26 Aug 2019

diminished wrote:
26 Aug 2019
Thanks. If you don't mind me asking specifically: which DAWs allow for "multiple MIDI lanes commiting to a chord track"?
Cubase and Studio One

Cubase's is IMO more seasoned and better for MIDI composing, but Studio One lets you do the same thing (both extracting the chords from, and applying them to) Audio tracks as well. (with predictable varying levels of awesomeness/suckitude depending on the recorded material)

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guitfnky
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Post 26 Aug 2019

zoidkirb wrote:
26 Aug 2019
guitfnky wrote:
26 Aug 2019


I actually have one, and learned that I don’t really like Live or the Launchpad as a controller. 😆
fair enough. how about cubase? i find that the two have a lot in common as far as shortcuts and general behaviour of the sequencer goes - i find Reason akin to a much simpler/stripped back version of Cubases's sequencer. Ableton Lives sequencer i find to be a big departure from both.
I haven’t heard much about Cubase...I need to look into it.

probably the best option for me will be something that allows for quick and easy auditioning of different song structures. I use Blocks a lot in Reason, because they’re intuitive. I like the concept of Ableton, in that regard, but definitely don’t find it to be intuitive or easy.

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Last Alternative
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Post 27 Aug 2019

My friend (and drummer) is a computer programmer genius almost to his Masters degree and works in a government lab with high clearance. We’re making our own DAW now haha
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
:reason: 10.4 | iMac (27" Retina 5K, late 2015): OS Mojave, i7 Skylake @ 4GHz, 1TB SSD, 32 GB RAM, Radeon M395X | lots of sick gear

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gdm41
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Post 27 Aug 2019

I recently bought a Crossgrade from Reason to Studio One for just 180€, i am still learning S1 but its workflow is much smoother than reasons. Especially when you have a lot of tracks in your project.
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

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ShelLuser
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Post 27 Aug 2019

guitfnky wrote:
26 Aug 2019
which have the best workflows?
which are easiest to use?
which are the most inspiring?
best looking?
biggest bang for your buck?
Most of these questions cannot be answered because it's a very personal aspect. For example: personally I'd immediately ignore the 'best looking' argument because that would be the least of my worries. Heck: I design stuff using Max, the visual programming environment, and even though you can somewhat easily make a nice user interface for controlling a patch most of the time I don't bother with looks at all and only focus on functionality.

So making sure I have the right controls, that the controls have labels to identify them and of course make sure the selection order of my controls also makes sense (for if you want to use tab to shift between them).

worklow and ease of use... it's a personal issue. I love the Reason workflow, also because it doesn't really have a specific workflow. But I know others who really dislike the ""chaotic" approach (their words, not mine).

Anyway... considering the very good sequencer in Reason I really don't think Reason users should feel persuaded to look elsewhere. Of course having said that I also believe that working with multiple products can bring out the best in you, as long as you don't overdo it. Meaning: become fluent with 2 DAWs is doable and can pay off. But if you build yourself a collection then I cannot help but wonder how fluent you're going to stay with a larger collection of DAWs, I don't think that'll work in the longer run. But then again, everyone is different ;)

I'd like to mention a DAW I don't use myself but still admire for what it is: Reaper. It's a very affordable yet pretty extensive DAW that allows you to do pretty much anything. I also want to make a special mention of the ReaPlugs suite; a collection of VST's which I came to consider invaluable for my work in Live. And completely free of charge too!

Live provides 'Max for Live'; a visual programming environment which you can use to build your own devices. The ReaPlug suite otoh features ReaJS: a plugin which allows you to program your own instrument or effect using Javascript, talk about a versatile setup! And for free! (with plenty of examples to learn from).

And well... I think the compressor, delay and EQ aren't bad at all. Especially considering the price ;)
--- :reason:
Using the 'Big trio': Ableton Live 10 suite (+ Push), Reason 10 and Max 8.

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guitfnky
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Post 27 Aug 2019

ShelLuser wrote:
27 Aug 2019
Most of these questions cannot be answered because it's a very personal aspect.
of course—I’m asking for people’s personal opinions. :)

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ShelLuser
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Post 27 Aug 2019

guitfnky wrote:
27 Aug 2019
ShelLuser wrote:
27 Aug 2019
Most of these questions cannot be answered because it's a very personal aspect.
of course—I’m asking for people’s personal opinions. :)
Ok, that makes sense. Doh, silly me :roll:

Ok, in that case I shall try again :puf_bigsmile:
guitfnky wrote:
26 Aug 2019
which have the best workflows?
which are easiest to use?
which are the most inspiring?
best looking?
biggest bang for your buck?
In my opinion the combination of Ableton Live + Reason has the 'best' workflow; both products don't necessarily follow the "classic" workflow (you know: the basic sequencer look and recording and stuff) and allow you to do a lot of tweaking and apply customization. In Live this element is a little bit hidden away when we're talking about signal routing but the 'session view' (= a "spreadsheet like" interface in which tracks are represented by columns which can contain dozens of different clips) makes up for this by providing a bit of an "ad-hoc" workflow as I like to call it. Of course it takes getting used to.

Reason expands on this workflow by putting more emphasis on tweaking (signal and cv routing and setting up parameters in general) while also supporting the 'classic' sequencer approach (a bit better than Live I think). Because both workflows are so different you don't risk getting stuck with a problem in both DAWs. I've had plenty of cases where I couldn't really put my finger behind a sound design in Live while tweaking in Reason gave me enough different options to make it work. Sometimes even allowing me to re-create that setup in Live (though I usually stuck with the DAW that did the job).

This is why I love both DAWs equally and have also become decently fluent with working on both (though I still have a lot to discover, especially since I recently upgraded to the latest versions). Did you know that the basic oscillators of Live and Reason provide an opposite signal so that you could theoretically cancel out their signals? I once compared the oscillators from Live's Operator with those from Thor and Subtractor.


Easiest to use... Not sure. I suppose Reaper might qualify for that, or Samplitude maybe. Easier - to me - would translate to less tweaking and a more direct workflow. So: select sound, apply filters, hit record and play. That's probably a bit too simplistic :puf_wink:


Most inspiring... wow... Reason and/or Komplete Elements in Live.

When I want to do sound design or experimentation then I always turn to Reason. To me Reason = sound. Of course I do risk getting carried away with excessive patching but I'm having the most fun (and results) when doing sound design in Reason. But I also enjoy working with some of the NI devices (Guitar Rig is a favorite of mine) but... not as much as Reason.


Best looking... I wouldn't know for sure. I'd say Reason but being the fanboy I am that's an obvious answer. Best comparison I have are some of the NI devices and well.. they look nice but Reason is all about looks + functionality.


Best bang... For me that was buying into Live 8 Suite. Because the upgrade price to 9 was a meager E 200 even though 9 included Abletons Orchestral Instrument Collection (OIC). Here is a very dated yet still decently relevant Youtube video which showcases this setup. I had been dying to own that but it was massively expensive to purchase individually.

Hmm, gee... do I see a parallel with Reasons version 11 suite here? ;)

Anyway, that's my take on this. Nice thread!
--- :reason:
Using the 'Big trio': Ableton Live 10 suite (+ Push), Reason 10 and Max 8.

EdGrip
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Post 27 Aug 2019

I've been thinking of getting Live or Bitwig for a while, specifically for the non-linear mode of thinking and playing. Reason VST has renewed that interest.
So - I'm not so fussed about the sequencer view in either Bitwig or Live. I'm fine with the sequencer in Reason.
Likewise the modulation paradigm in Bitwig is only slightly interesting to me because I have Reason.

So it comes down to the clip launcher - the Session View in each.
I've been trying to find comparative threads that refer to the session views in particular, but there doesn't seem to be much - which surprises me, given that that is the main differentiating feature of those two related non-linear DAWs!

So - could someone who has used both tell me their thoughts on the clip launchers of both?

I like that Bitwig supports Linux so it has credit for that. I disliked that it doesn't support Rewire but Reason Rack resolves that for me.

xbitz
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Post 27 Aug 2019

which have the best workflows?
which are easiest to use?
which are the most inspiring?
best looking?
--
I'm using Logic+FreeStyle plugin wrapper +mp3244/sq4 modulation processors together as a base, if it helps



best looking is a matter of personal preferences, can pick one from http://logicproxthemes.blogspot.com/
Last edited by xbitz on 27 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.
:reason: :recycle: :re: :record: :refill: :rt:

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guitfnky
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Post 27 Aug 2019

well, I’ve narrowed the list of potentials down by one, at least...FL Studio is a hot garbage mess for recording audio, so that’s a hard pass, for me. 😆

EdGrip
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Post 27 Aug 2019

Just trying to find the manual for Bitwig... I see the demo still operates a "saving and exporting disabled" policy. I feel very uncomfortable trying to get into a play state with a piece of software that won't let me save anything I come up with in the demo.
If I could save but not open, that would be fine. If I accidentally come up with something cool and have to buy Bitwig, that's up to me. I remember thinking it was very off-putting last time I demo'd it.

Edit: Can't download the manual without downloading the 230MB full installer. They are not endearing themselves to me. Ableton Live manual is available both online and as a PDF.

Edit 2: On the other hand, I've spent my 30 day trial of Live ages ago, so can't use that (needless to say I actually used about 2 of those 30 days.) After the 30 days are up, Live operates by the same rules as the Bitwig demo, so I will let Bitwig off. ;)

Edit 3: I am allowed another 30 days of Live for some reason! Hooray!
Last edited by EdGrip on 27 Aug 2019, edited 3 times in total.

xbitz
Posts: 95
Joined: 28 Apr 2017

Post 27 Aug 2019

Bitwig UI can be laggy on mac, worth to demo it with a bigger project if u can before buying

ps. u can save clips in Bitwig demo, so just create a group track and put everything into it at the end simply drop the meta clip on the group track to the side browser and it will be saved (and can be loaded back with using a simple drag and dropping from the browser)
:reason: :recycle: :re: :record: :refill: :rt:

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guitfnky
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Post 27 Aug 2019

gdm41 wrote:
27 Aug 2019
I recently bought a Crossgrade from Reason to Studio One for just 180€, i am still learning S1 but its workflow is much smoother than reasons. Especially when you have a lot of tracks in your project.
that’s awesome! glad to know they have a crossgrade!

Popey
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Post 27 Aug 2019

Hi I was just wondering what other daw's people use and why they like them which will help me make informed decisions should I decide to switch in the future. I have discounted logic as do not have a mac and didn't previously like cubase though the version I own is a few years old now so may revisit it.

I am guessing I can get trials of other daw but appreciate your opinions as if the trials are time sensitive I may not get the chance to fully utilise them due to work etc.

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Jackjackdaw
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Post 27 Aug 2019

guitfnky wrote:
26 Aug 2019
zoidkirb wrote:
26 Aug 2019


fair enough. how about cubase? i find that the two have a lot in common as far as shortcuts and general behaviour of the sequencer goes - i find Reason akin to a much simpler/stripped back version of Cubases's sequencer. Ableton Lives sequencer i find to be a big departure from both.
I haven’t heard much about Cubase...I need to look into it.

probably the best option for me will be something that allows for quick and easy auditioning of different song structures. I use Blocks a lot in Reason, because they’re intuitive. I like the concept of Ableton, in that regard, but definitely don’t find it to be intuitive or easy.
Cubase has an arranger track that lets you define "blocks" with track markers and then you can arrange them how you wish on the fly and freeze variations as new projects. It's very good.

SalvadorDeluxe
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Post 27 Aug 2019

I am always using Reason's Comp/Slice/Pitch edit modes which are available directly in the sequencer (i.e. no Melodyne, etc). Is there any other DAW for Windows that has these three tools available natively that someone can recommend? I've looked but haven't found one.
Nintendo 64 // Minesweeper // Rotary Telephones

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diminished
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Post 27 Aug 2019

SalvadorDeluxe wrote:
27 Aug 2019
I am always using Reason's Comp/Slice/Pitch edit modes which are available directly in the sequencer (i.e. no Melodyne, etc). Is there any other DAW for Windows that has these three tools available natively that someone can recommend? I've looked but haven't found one.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Cubase offers this?

Popey
Posts: 96
Joined: 04 Jul 2018

Post 27 Aug 2019

guitfnky wrote:
26 Aug 2019
another question just popped into my head....do any DAWs offer crossgrade discounts these days? back when I first got Digital Performer, I was able to use a crossgrade promotion to save a chunk on the full version.
After the reason 11 announcement I have started looking for other daw to see what is available and studio 1 offers a cross grade for certain reason users from version 6 upwards I believe. Haven't looked at ableton etc yet
Last edited by Popey on 27 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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mon
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Post 27 Aug 2019

My vote goes for Reaper - not very inspiring interface but unbelievably flexible, feature-rich and light on resources. Once a user get the very basic concepts it gets very easy to use.
My second vote for all the old school tracker heads would be Renoise, which sadly still don’t support VST3 plugins. However, for me it is the fastest and most inspiring DAW along with Reason.
Acid pro 8+ could also be very nice choice if you work mostly with loops and samples. MIDI functionality is subpar however.
:reason: 10+
:recycle: :re: :refillpacker:

EdGrip
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Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 27 Aug 2019

No crossgrade offers from Ableton or Bitwig. As someone else observed - other DAWs would be wise to bring out the sales and crossgrades soon.

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