The beginning of the end of Intel Macs?

[LarsK]

Just a rumour so far - but I have been using Mac's for close to 20 years, and I do remember the days when Universal Binary Software was stopped being developed shortly after purchasing a PowerMac. This time around I just invested in a new MacBook Pro (in december). Thoughts?

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple ... 38668.html

[Loque]

Who cares? The software will still work. Intel gets more and more pressure from ARM and AMD. Good for the customer.

[ScuzzyEye]

Just a rumour so far - but I have been using Mac's for close to 20 years, and I do remember the days when Universal Binary Software was stopped being developed shortly after purchasing a PowerMac. This time around I just invested in a new MacBook Pro (in december). Thoughts?

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple ... 38668.html

Good thing you got the one with an Intel chip. I'm guessing there will be a lot of compatibility problems for the first few years of Arm-based machines. Maybe not with big name applications, but something that supports plug-ins will be a nightmare. Good luck getting Arm VSTs for quite a while.

The transition will look like this:

1. Initially, some applications will be Intel only. If they run on Arm it'll be through an emulator at a great speed penalty.
2. During the first year, new "Fat" binaries will begin to appear that include both Intel and Arm code. They'll run at full speed on either machine.
3. Eventually after many years, Intel code will no longer be included, and applications will only have Arm code. Apple may include an Intel emulator to run the Arm code on Intel with the speed penalty.

[bxbrkrz]

My 2012 iPad is still working fine. Very happy with it. Maybe in 2022 I'll get an iPad Pro.
Apple will move their pro line From x86 to ARM CPUs (what's inside their iPad Pro) eventually. They moved from PowerPC to Intel in the past and I expect them to do the same since their chip is so powerful. It would not be too far-fetched to imagine they already have a fully functioning OS XI running their main apps in their lab already.

...

Thus Spoke (Zarathustra) Nostradamus

[dioxide]

The last transition is a big part of the reason why I don't use VSTs. At the time I dabbled a bit with ABL2 and U-he Zebra. What happened as part of the transition was that DAW and VST developers all had to rewrite their software to be compatible with the new chipset. They all did this at their own rate, and in some cases VSTs were not rewritten, for example when the product was an older product.

Fast forward to 2019 and I use Reason plus REs. I only need Propellerhead to rework Reason and my entire library of REs will work on this version of Reason, without exceptions. Bravo Propellerhead! If Propellerhead don't use this as a marketing exercise to show the benefits of REs over other formats, then they need their heads seeing to.

[EnochLight]

Who cares? The software will still work. Intel gets more and more pressure from ARM and AMD. Good for the customer.

Reason users on Macs should care, as Reason desktop currently does not run on any ARM chipset, nor does it have any chance of easily doing so right now. Well, unless you count RE's an ELK OS, which we've yet to see any functional products on the market.

This news will be huge to any dev that currently writes desktop apps for Macs and Windows. Right now, Windows and Macs use the same CPU platform. Its going to require an entirely different approach when writing for x86 desktop CPU's and ARM at the same time...

[ScuzzyEye]

Reason users on Macs should care, as Reason desktop currently does not run on any ARM chipset, nor does it have any chance of easily doing so right now. Well, unless you count RE's an ELK OS, which we've yet to see any functional products on the market.

This news will be huge to any dev that currently writes desktop apps for Macs and Windows. Right now, Windows and Macs use the same CPU platform. Its going to require an entirely different approach when writing for x86 desktop CPU's and ARM at the same time...

The RE SDK is actually pretty decently designed for this. I can't say more than has be discussed publicly by the Props (which was quite a bit in that Europa VST video). Basically you don't target a specific CPU, but a generic one. They've even included SIMD support in this model (as hyped back in second release of the SDK).

The OpenCL syntax for addressing SIMD instructions is generic enough that anyone using it can easily recompile their high-level code for a different CPU. No one (except OS and C library developers) really does low-level coding any more. Mac OS uses LLVM/Clang as the system compiler and it does indeed use OpenCL style code.

I'm not saying the migration to Arm will be painless, but it'll be less painful than the PowerPC to Intel change.

[EnochLight]

The RE SDK is actually pretty decently designed for this. I can't say more than has be discussed publicly by the Props (which was quite a bit in that Europa VST video). Basically you don't target a specific CPU, but a generic one. They've even included SIMD support in this model (as hyped back in second release of the SDK).

The OpenCL syntax for addressing SIMD instructions is generic enough that anyone using it can easily recompile their high-level code for a different CPU. No one (except OS and C library developers) really does low-level coding any more. Mac OS uses LLVM/Clang as the system compiler and it does indeed use OpenCL style code.

I'm not saying the migration to Arm will be painless, but it'll be less painful than the PowerPC to Intel change.

I think the switch from Power PC to Intel will likely be remembered as being a lot easier, IMHO. The problem is, there are exactly zero native Reason devices that are built with the RE SDK (save for The Echo, Pulvi, and Alligator). If the RE SDK is the "McGuffin" for ARM support, so to speak, then that does not bode well. I'm sure we would have seen all native Reason devices ported by now and replaced if it was as easy as that. And then there's the core program (sequencer, mixer, etc).

I'm curious how this will be dealt with in 2020.

[Loque]

Easy... Tell the compiler the new target CPU or use a different compiler. Job done. Porting to a new OS can be much more complicated.

For the RE you need to have or write a new compiler. I don't have enough details for that, but saw in the last month's that PH can manage that.

[ScuzzyEye]

I think the switch from Power PC to Intel will likely be remembered as being a lot easier, IMHO. The problem is, there are exactly zero native Reason devices that are built with the RE SDK (save for The Echo, Pulvi, and Alligator). If the RE SDK is the "McGuffin" for ARM support, so to speak, then that does not bode well. I'm sure we would have seen all native Reason devices ported by now and replaced if it was as easy as that. And then there's the core program (sequencer, mixer, etc).

Reason is written in C++. Just recompile. Reason's native devices are not designed to be built with the SDK, that's why they haven't been ported. They use features not in the SDK, so it's not even possible at this point.

The reason the SDK has the generic CPU model, is developers don't give their C++ code to the Props. So they can't just rebuild it like they do code they have access too.

[bxbrkrz]

Apple does not have a choice. At least they make their own chip. Good for Apple in the long run.

[QVprod]

I think there's a bit of an over reaction by some. The users probably wont notice a difference. Photoshop runs on an iPad pro. There are quite a few plugins that are also iOS apps. I really don't think the transition will be that big of a deal overall. Code is clearly adaptable.