Email from Teenage Engineering "no one should pay this price for an OP-1"

[joeyluck]

That was the subject title of the email and I opened it thinking it meant something else

The OP-1 used to be priced at $899.
It then got a price bump this year up to $999
This was probably to create some space between it and the OP-Z ($599), to justify its cost.

And I was thinking that maybe they were about to announce a huge price drop for the OP-1, since it has been notorious for being a high-priced gadget.

But no...they were just referring to a rumor that it had been discontinued, and people were/are supposedly bidding big bucks on them

But I guess if you have an OP-1 and haven't used it in a while and wanted to get some rich kid to buy it because they aren't available anywhere else, now is your chance!

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[joeyluck]

I also wonder if those bids aren't manufactured... Here's that specific listing
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Engine ... rk:34:pf:0

Meanwhile, there are some that are certainly going for a bit much IMO, more than the original price, but nothing else close to that amount. So who would continue bidding on it over other options? Fake accounts or people who can't stand to lose?

[aeox]

Fake accounts

Sounds about right

[EnochLight]

I'm really hoping they'll do an OP-1 "Part 2", and truly improve on many of the OP-1's deficiencies. Things I need "fixed" before I'll drop even regular MSRP on one?

• (Easy) User-replaceable battery.
• If I have to use the tape recorder to record sequences, then please - give us more than just 4 audio tracks (come on guys, this limitation is almost embarrassing in this day and age). I mean, at least 8 tracks! And time.. (6 minutes max recording time and 90 second max lift time is unacceptable).
• Velocity sensitive keys (the fixed velocity keys are LAAAAAAME). This is not a limitation that Kouthoofd should have agreed to. This was a blunder on TE's part, IMHO, and kills the ability to be expressive.
• Faster CPU/more RAM/more storage to accommodate new OS updates with new complex synths, a more feature packed sampler/editor, and more effects.

Also, does anyone know - can you easily export your stems from the OP-1 so you can work on them in a DAW? Or is everything always mixed down to a stereo file on the tape emulator?

I know Jesper Kouthoofd loves the current limitations as it forces focused creativity, but these small additions would really catapult this thing into a whole different (better IMHO) league, without sacrificing TE's philosophy, me thinks.

[joeyluck]

I'm really hoping they'll do an OP-1 "Part 2", and truly improve on many of the OP-1's deficiencies. Things I need "fixed" before I'll drop even regular MSRP on one?

• (Easy) User-replaceable battery.
• If I have to use the tape recorder to record sequences, then please - give us more than just 4 audio tracks (come on guys, this limitation is almost embarrassing in this day and age). I mean, at least 8 tracks! And time.. (6 minutes max recording time and 90 second max lift time is unacceptable).
• Velocity sensitive keys (the fixed velocity keys are LAAAAAAME). This is not a limitation that Kouthoofd should have agreed to. This was a blunder on TE's part, IMHO, and kills the ability to be expressive.
• Faster CPU/more RAM/more storage to accommodate new OS updates with new complex synths, a more feature packed sampler/editor, and more effects.

Also, does anyone know - can you easily export your stems from the OP-1 so you can work on them in a DAW? Or is everything always mixed down to a stereo file on the tape emulator?

I know Jesper Kouthoofd loves the current limitations as it forces focused creativity, but these small additions would really catapult this thing into a whole different (better IMHO) league, without sacrificing TE's philosophy, me thinks.

Yeah I had some of the same thoughts. And at the price point, I can't help but think what else someone could get for $999... You can get a very capable laptop...or iPad which would certainly still be more powerful, running great software...and still spend less. I see the appeal, because I love little gadgets, but I don't think I'd ever get my money's worth out of it. It's overpriced and lacks important features.

[O1B]

Man! I hope I win!

[jayhosking]

I have the OP-1 and love the fact that its workflow and synth engines and effects all lead to sounds I would never make (without great effort) on any other device. I've thought about selling it a couple of times, as it's unfit for creating whole tracks on, but there's a lot of inspiration in it and it can easily be used as a starting point for songs.

For me, the biggest shortfall to the OP-1 is its lack of stereo sounds. Each track is mono, and the effects are all mono. It's nice that you can pan the four tracks, but adding delay or "cow" or the weird filter are so flat in mono.

The restriction of four tracks is a bummer, but even if they were stereo, it would be much better. Like I said, though, I'm only using it as a "starting place" instrument, where I finish up the tracks in Reason, so I imagine I'd be more annoyed if I were trying to create whole pieces. More of a problem is that 6-minute cap, because it essentially means I record ideas for one track and then have to export to my laptop. At least the exporting is dead simple! I do wish I could make whole songs in it, though, because I really like how the master compressor/drive sound.

Other than that, the biggest drawback to it is that it doesn't play super well with others. No easy "thru" for MIDI data, no sequencing (so it's triggering the tape), and iffy chances of getting the OP-1 to trigger and sync, on occasion. I have a few ideas for running the OP-1 out as a drone or ambient device to a stereo reverb pedal, unsynched but latched, and that's my main reason I'm keeping it around right now. Nothing else sounds like it.

Last week I finally got my OP-Z in the mail, and I have to say that it seems to have learned from the OP-1 in all the right ways. More tracks to work with, proper sequencing, smart chord transposition, stereo reverb, easy auto-pan via the LFO, stereo chorus, and most importantly of all, the incredible performance effects of the pocket operators. You can create a(n ostensibly) 16-step pattern and turn it into eight or sixteen bars with endless variations, just by combining the chord changes and performance effects. I love this thing.

[EnochLight]

I've thought about selling it a couple of times, as it's unfit for creating whole tracks on ... Other than that, the biggest drawback to it is that it doesn't play super well with others. No easy "thru" for MIDI data, no sequencing (so it's triggering the tape), and iffy chances of getting the OP-1 to trigger and sync, on occasion.

^^ UGH ^^

This right here terrifies the hell out of me, and is another big reason I held off on picking one up.

Last week I finally got my OP-Z in the mail, and I have to say that it seems to have learned from the OP-1 in all the right ways. More tracks to work with, proper sequencing, smart chord transposition, stereo reverb, easy auto-pan via the LFO, stereo chorus, and most importantly of all, the incredible performance effects of the pocket operators. You can create a(n ostensibly) 16-step pattern and turn it into eight or sixteen bars with endless variations, just by combining the chord changes and performance effects. I love this thing.

^^ THIS ^^

For this very reason, the OP-Z is still on my radar. And hook up an iPhone (or iPad), and you arguably have a much more powerful display than the limited OLED could ever provide.

[jayhosking]

For this very reason, the OP-Z is still on my radar. And hook up an iPhone (or iPad), and you arguably have a much more powerful display than the limited OLED could ever provide.

The screen is super useful for learning the device, and thus I'd consider the app necessary. But honestly, I'm looking at it less and less each time I use the OP-Z, and now sometimes not even connecting the phone at all. It speaks to the design of the thing.

I would highly recommend the OP-Z. I'm not sure I could recommend the OP-1, except to people who have money to spare and are looking for something to make unique sounds.

[EnochLight]

I'm not sure I could recommend the OP-1, except to people who have money to spare and are looking for something to make unique sounds.

Are you suggesting that the OP-Z can't make unique sounds? I'm worried that the OP-Z only has "that one sound".

[jayhosking]

Are you suggesting that the OP-Z can't make unique sounds? I'm worried that the OP-Z only has "that one sound".

Well, the OP-Z certainly sounds akin to the OP-1, as it's using some of the same synth engines. But it also just sounds brighter, wider, and livelier, thanks to having stereo reverb and chorus, and easy autopan options.

But the OP-Z seems more limited in patch tweaking on the machine. Granted, I haven't gone into the synth engine editor for the OP-Z as deeply as I have with the OP-1. But from first appearances, there are fewer parameters to modulate, so it's harder to tweak sounds.

All that said, it does have a particular sound. That's a plus in my books, as I have plenty of options for the other sounds (we all do, thanks to Reason). The on-board drum samples are fantastic, and the synth patches are mostly really good and inspiring.

[EnochLight]

Are you suggesting that the OP-Z can't make unique sounds? I'm worried that the OP-Z only has "that one sound".

Well, the OP-Z certainly sounds akin to the OP-1, as it's using some of the same synth engines. But it also just sounds brighter, wider, and livelier, thanks to having stereo reverb and chorus, and easy autopan options.

But the OP-Z seems more limited in patch tweaking on the machine. Granted, I haven't gone into the synth engine editor for the OP-Z as deeply as I have with the OP-1. But from first appearances, there are fewer parameters to modulate, so it's harder to tweak sounds.

All that said, it does have a particular sound. That's a plus in my books, as I have plenty of options for the other sounds (we all do, thanks to Reason). The on-board drum samples are fantastic, and the synth patches are mostly really good and inspiring.

Cool, cool. Can you tell me - is it possible to export "stems" from the OP-Z, so one could open up a finished song (or starter) in Reason as separate audio tracks and continue to work on it?

[jayhosking]

Cool, cool. Can you tell me - is it possible to export "stems" from the OP-Z, so one could open up a finished song (or starter) in Reason as separate audio tracks and continue to work on it?

To the best of my knowledge, no. This is a step sequencer, not a "tape" as in the OP-1, so there are no stems saved on the device. Honestly, I think that stems would go against some of the OP-Z's best features, namely the performance effects (aside: I cannot wait until RE developers start getting smart and designing performance effects REs!), parameter modulation, and overall "playing" of the device in real-time. I'll be recording it soon, and I'm looking forward to capturing the performance, as I do with the Pocket Operators.

[miscend]

Even at normal retail 999 price. The OP-1 is over priced. Teenage Engineering probably have a huge markup on that thing.

[EnochLight]

To the best of my knowledge, no. This is a step sequencer, not a "tape" as in the OP-1, so there are no stems saved on the device. Honestly, I think that stems would go against some of the OP-Z's best features, namely the performance effects (aside: I cannot wait until RE developers start getting smart and designing performance effects REs!),

I think the only "performance effect" in the RE shop is Peff's Buffre stutter effect, though I could be mistaken. I agree though - after owning the Pocket Operators (and seeing what OP-Z does), I think more performance effect RE's could really be awesome. I wonder why no one captured this market yet? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

parameter modulation, and overall "playing" of the device in real-time. I'll be recording it soon, and I'm looking forward to capturing the performance, as I do with the Pocket Operators.

I've got PO-32 Tonic and PO-33 K.O! - love them! Thinking about adding the PO-35 Speak... just wondering where the PO-34
is?

Even at normal retail 999 price. The OP-1 is over priced. Teenage Engineering probably have a huge markup on that thing.

Funny enough, the OP-1 launched for even less than that! I remember it being around $899 for some time.

[selig]

Hell, I'll sell my OP1 for HALF of that $8600 if there are any takers!

[jayhosking]

I think the only "performance effect" in the RE shop is Peff's Buffre stutter effect, though I could be mistaken. I agree though - after owning the Pocket Operators (and seeing what OP-Z does), I think more performance effect RE's could really be awesome. I wonder why no one captured this market yet? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

...

I've got PO-32 Tonic and PO-33 K.O! - love them! Thinking about adding the PO-35 Speak... just wondering where the PO-34
is?

Yeah, I'm surprised nobody's jumped in and made a grid-looking player or RE that taps into what the Pocket Operators and the OP-Z can do. Let's hope they do soon, because the intuitive, fast interface, the simply-just-press-a-button quality is super inspiring.

And yeah, the PO-32 and PO-33 are both great! I especially love the PO-33, but both are awesome. If you like playing with them, I suspect you'll love the OP-Z, which is an expansion on many of the great ideas of the Pocket Operators.

And I was thinking about picking up the OP-28! They're so affordable and inspiring that they're addictive. I've already got three!

[EnochLight]

Not to derail this from the Teenage Engineering OP-1 topic, but has anyone seen the new Synthstrom Deluge? It's $100 USD cheaper than the OP-1, yet has a massive LED grid pattern sequencer, almost limitless sampling, built-in FM and subtractive synth, built-in speaker, mic, and is battery operated. It's a very tempting alternative to the OP-1:

https://synthstrom.com/product/deluge/

[jayhosking]

Not to derail this from the Teenage Engineering OP-1 topic, but has anyone seen the new Synthstrom Deluge? It's $100 USD cheaper than the OP-1, yet has a massive LED grid pattern sequencer, almost limitless sampling, built-in FM and subtractive synth, built-in speaker, mic, and is battery operated. It's a very tempting alternative to the OP-1:

https://synthstrom.com/product/deluge/

... I've got one of them as well. I was pretty disappointed, truthfully, and will probably sell it. I wrote all about it here, if you want to read: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7509953

[EnochLight]

... I've got one of them as well. I was pretty disappointed, truthfully, and will probably sell it. I wrote all about it here, if you want to read: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7509953

Great read; thanks for pointing to that thread!

[O1B]

Love mine. - but, thanks for the heads up!

"Nice! I will have to dig into this too! I like the idea of being able to set any length to the sequences. That is the killer feature for me. I’m feeling the limits of 64 maximum steps for programming longer phrases."
Cuckoos

TR-8s: 16 times 8 = 128 Steps

Not to derail this from the Teenage Engineering OP-1 topic, but has anyone seen the new Synthstrom Deluge?

... I've got one of them as well. I was pretty disappointed, truthfully, and will probably sell it. I wrote all about it here, if you want to read: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7509953

[joeyluck]

So the OP-1 is now $1299
https://teenage.engineering/store#op-1

It was $899, bumped up to $999, now $1299?

I think the ebay market, while it was out of stock, must've inspired them to jack up the price...
Even though it seemed their intention was that people shouldn't pay premiums for the OP-1 thinking it was discontinued. Certainly not $8600, but $400 more than it used to be. That's a 45% increase on the original price.

[EnochLight]

So the OP-1 is now $1299
https://teenage.engineering/store#op-1

It was $899, bumped up to $999, now $1299?

I think the ebay market, while it was out of stock, must've inspired them to jack up the price...
Even though it seemed their intention was that people shouldn't pay premiums for the OP-1 thinking it was discontinued. Certainly not $8600, but $400 more than it used to be. That's a 45% increase on the original price.

W. T. F. ??!!!

Yeah sorry - I don't care how much people lament their love for the OP-1 - it's most certainly NOT worth $1300 USD, IMHO. What the hell is Teenage Engineering thinking??!

[Faastwalker]

So the OP-1 is now $1299
https://teenage.engineering/store#op-1

It was $899, bumped up to $999, now $1299?

I think you hit the nail on the head in your original post back in December;

This was probably to create some space between it and the OP-Z ($599), to justify its cost.

In any case, the new price is fucking ridiculous.

[jam-s]

Hipster hardware - hipster pricing.